Ruger SFAR, M1 Garand and Saltech Swiss Ammo Update

[Pat Riot]

I promised that I would let some of you know how the Saltech Swiss 147 grain .308 (it’s loaded like 7.62x51 NATO) worked in my Ruger SFAR. 

I fired only 20 rounds of the Saltech ammo in my SFAR. The SFAR has an incrementally adjustable gas return. It is incremented at 0, 1, 2, and 3. 0 being NO gas return and 3 being fully open. 
I had the gas set at #2. This is the setting Ruger recommended for .308 ammo. The Saltech ammo fired but the action wouldn’t cycle far enough to pick up the next round in a couple of firings. 
I set the gas to #3, fully open. The ammo fired but the extractor would pop over the rim of the case leaving an empty case in the chamber and then the next round would jam into the case damaging the cartridge. This happened 3 times. 
At this point I unloaded the mags that had the Saltech ammo and then tried the ammo in my M1 Garand. Not having shot this Garand in nearly 10 years my accuracy wasn’t all that great at first, but once I got it dialed in a little better the Saltech ammo proved to be accurate enough for that day’s shooting. It functioned perfectly in my Garand. More testing to come. 
Ruger says that the SFAR needs a 100-200 round break in. When I shot the Saltech ammo I only had about 50 rounds through it so the jury is still out on the operation of this ammo in the SFAR. I am hoping to hit the range today or tomorrow with it for more testing. 
 

So far I am really liking this SFAR. With PMC ammo it functions perfectly.

[Chantry]

If this is your first AR pattern rifle, know that most of them like to be well lubricated to run well, be it a liquid or dry lubricant.

 

And the Garand is a far better gun.  

[Pat Riot]

13 minutes ago, Chantry said:

If this is your first AR pattern rifle, know that most of them like to be well lubricated to run well, be it a liquid or dry lubricant.

 

And the Garand is a far better gun.  

I have had several AR-15s. This is my first AR-10, though Ruger doesn’t call it that. I like to run them wet. Dry lube is great for other types of guns but I have had my best operation running wet. Break Free CLP is my go to for this. It’s only had 80 or so rounds through it so it is still breaking in. 

[Sedalia Dave]

4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I have had several AR-15s. This is my first AR-10, though Ruger doesn’t call it that. I like to run them wet. Dry lube is great for other types of guns but I have had my best operation running wet. Break Free CLP is my go to for this. It’s only had 80 or so rounds through it so it is still breaking in. 

 

Try a straight 30 weight motor oil. I have a graphic somewhere that shows there and how much lube to use on AR pattern rifles. One of the things I was told when I was given it was that AR's like to be run wet and to not use light weight oils.

 

The owners manual for my DPMS secifically states not to use Rem Oil. When i contacted them about this they replied that RemOil was too light a lubricant.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

44 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Try a straight 30 weight motor oil. I have a graphic somewhere that shows there and how much lube to use on AR pattern rifles. One of the things I was told when I was given it was that AR's like to be run wet and to not use light weight oils.

 

The owners manual for my DPMS secifically states not to use Rem Oil. When i contacted them about this they replied that RemOil was too light a lubricant.

 

 

I will try some Mobil 1 on it. Ruger really doesn’t specify what lubes they recommend. 

[Pat Riot]

I forgot to mention in my first post that I also ran 10 rounds of Norma 150 grain .308 that first time I shot. Norma needs the gas set on 3 or it will FTF.
 

Well, Saltech Swiss 147 grain .308 runs great in my Garand. It downright sucks in my SFAR. 

I ran another 30 rounds of Norma .308 through the SFAR then decided to try the Saltech ammo. The first round fired and the case stayed in the chamber. Extraction was a bi***. I didn’t bother trying to fire any more of it in the SFAR. 

I ran another 20 rounds of Norma through it rested and rapid fire at 100 yards and kept the majority of the rounds in the 6” Bullseye. 

I think it’s time I get some more PMC ammo. The SFAR seems to like it best…so far. 

[PowderRiverCowboy]

Deployed , Lucas would send us their CLP free for our team , Really got to like it and still use it doesn't seem to carbon up like normal CLP and we ran some rounds at times through ours 

 

[Cypress Sun]

20 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I forgot to mention in my first post that I also ran 10 rounds of Norma 150 grain .308 that first time I shot. Norma needs the gas set on 3 or it will FTF.
 

Well, Saltech Swiss 147 grain .308 runs great in my Garand. It downright sucks in my SFAR. 

I ran another 30 rounds of Norma .308 through the SFAR then decided to try the Saltech ammo. The first round fired and the case stayed in the chamber. Extraction was a bi***. I didn’t bother trying to fire any more of it in the SFAR. 

I ran another 20 rounds of Norma through it rested and rapid fire at 100 yards and kept the majority of the rounds in the 6” Bullseye. 

I think it’s time I get some more PMC ammo. The SFAR seems to like it best…so far. 

 

Try some .308 - 168gr BTHP in it.

 

Expensive, I know, but for me...the accuracy is worth the money. 

[Perro Del Diablo]

I'm not familiar with the SFAR but I have had guns that requires break in. Closer I got to that smoother it ran.

[racerx514]

I'm having the exact same issues out of my sfar with this ammo, I have to pound the case out of the rifle...all gas settings...fine out of my bolt action rifle ....sfar ate Norma and finochi with no problems... casing is being sheered away.. won't even reload this stuff

[Pat Riot]

11 hours ago, racerx514 said:

I'm having the exact same issues out of my sfar with this ammo, I have to pound the case out of the rifle...all gas settings...fine out of my bolt action rifle ....sfar ate Norma and finochi with no problems... casing is being sheered away.. won't even reload this stuff

Thanks very much for your experience with this ammo. My first impressions of it were that my SFAR must have a problem. The last case I had to drive out was the first round fired from the SFAR after a very good cleaning with special attention to the chamber. I thought perhaps the Saltech had a coating that I couldn’t detect that was sealing the case in the chamber like some of that crappy 7.62x39 that I encountered years ago. 
So far Norma and PMC work great in mine. The gas return for Norma needs to be set on 3, the PMC on 2 on mine. 
You make a very good point about reloading with the Saltech brass. I think I will do the same and not reload it. 
The Saltech fires just fine from my M1 Garand. I will just shoot it out of the Garand and be done with it. 
This Saltech ammo seems to be everywhere  online now. Unless I hear that they have improved…scratch that. I won’t be buying it in the future, regardless. 
 

And Welcome to the Saloon @racerx514 

You must really hate this ammo to go through a sign up process to post about this ammo. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Have you called Ruger and explained to them the issue?

 

To me it looks like the gas block needs one more setting.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

2 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Have you called Ruger and explained to them the issue?

 

To me it looks like the gas block needs one more setting.

 

 

I considered it but decided to try ammo from other makers before I do. 
That photo @racerx514 posted looks like nearly every piece of Saltech brass from my SFAR. They all look normal from the Garand. 
I am wondering if the chamber for the SFAR is tight or at the minimum dimensions for .308. I was also wondering if the Saltech brass alloy is brittle at the head and doesn’t shrink after the bullet is fired. 
I plan to try some Cavim Egyptian 7.62 ammo and perhaps a couple other name brands of .308 before contacting Ruger and Saltech. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The rifle is 'over-gased'.

Call Ruger....

[Pat Riot]

29 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

The rifle is 'over-gased'.

Call Ruger....

No, it’s not. Trust me. 

[Pat Riot]

@racerx514 here is a case from the SFAR that looks just like yours. I had to ram this one out. What a PITA! 
 

 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

9 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I considered it but decided to try ammo from other makers before I do. 
That photo @racerx514 posted looks like nearly every piece of Saltech brass from my SFAR. They all look normal from the Garand. 
I am wondering if the chamber for the SFAR is tight or at the minimum dimensions for .308. I was also wondering if the Saltech brass alloy is brittle at the head and doesn’t shrink after the bullet is fired. 
I plan to try some Cavim Egyptian 7.62 ammo and perhaps a couple other name brands of .308 before contacting Ruger and Saltech. 

Somewhere in the YouTubeaverse I remember someone saying that Ruger was replacing some people’s regulators with an updated one . Also have seen pictures of gold nitrated bolt heads as an update. They seem to be trying to work the bugs out with the large variety of ammo out there. Ruger generally tries pretty hard to make things right with their customers.

Variations in ammo is the weak point for a auto loader, and it’s almost impossible to get one to work with everything out there 

[Pat Riot]

5 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Variations in ammo is the weak point for a auto loader, and it’s almost impossible to get one to work with everything out there 

Yes, which is why I want to try some other ammo before getting too concerned. As it is the fix is simple, no Saltech ammo in the SFAR.

[Trailrider #896]

You mention that Saltech ammo worked fine in your Garand. Was this .30-06 ammo, or has your M-1 Rifle been rebarrelled to .308/7.62 NATO?  If still in .30-06, are you aware that the M-1's chamber is overly generous near the rear to facilitate extraction? If converted to .308, your Garand may have a slightly larger chamber than the Ruger.  The larger .30-06 chamber in M-1's required resizing the brass, either using a "small-base" full-length resizing die (although I got away with the regular RCBS die in my RCBS-Jr press for years. 

 

The other problem that I think is present with the Sartech brass is that it's heat treatment has left the base and rim too soft.  (Shades of the Trapdoor Springfield M1873 with the soft copper-cased ammo!)  Change ammo and or see if Ruger will open up the chamber a bit in your SFAR. (I doubt they'll do it, however.)

[Pat Riot]

3 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

You mention that Saltech ammo worked fine in your Garand. Was this .30-06 ammo, or has your M-1 Rifle been rebarrelled to .308/7.62 NATO?  If still in .30-06, are you aware that the M-1's chamber is overly generous near the rear to facilitate extraction? If converted to .308, your Garand may have a slightly larger chamber than the Ruger.  The larger .30-06 chamber in M-1's required resizing the brass, either using a "small-base" full-length resizing die (although I got away with the regular RCBS die in my RCBS-Jr press for years. 

 

The other problem that I think is present with the Sartech brass is that it's heat treatment has left the base and rim too soft.  (Shades of the Trapdoor Springfield M1873 with the soft copper-cased ammo!)  Change ammo and or see if Ruger will open up the chamber a bit in your SFAR. (I doubt they'll do it, however.)

Thank you. Yes, the Garand is now a .308. I do recall that the ‘smith that installed my barrel did say the chamber is a bit larger to accommodate surplus and foreign 7.62x52 NATO ammo. 
 

Regarding the Saltech brass, I agree. It seems the rim is either soft or brittle, but it looks smeared along the edges of the break so it’s probably soft. Also the case didn’t shrink after the bullet left the barrel and I am guessing that is soft as well. It took some real force to ram the cases out of the chamber. 

[ORNERY OAF]

Wondering how it runs thru a FAL or G3

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, ORNERY OAF said:

Wondering how it runs thru a FAL or G3

Don’t know. It runs in my Garand. Once it’s gone I’ll not buy any more unless I hear they got their stuff together. Probably not even then. Ammo costs too dang much to be beta testing it for the manufacturer. 

[Buckshot Bob]

21 minutes ago, ORNERY OAF said:

Wondering how it runs thru a FAL or G3

I used to have a HK 91 and it would digest just about anything. Another gun I should have never sold. But it is heavy and kicks like a mule 

[Michigan Slim]

I miss my FAL. Tried to buy it back and the guy looked at me like my hair was on fire.

[angleofattack]

Thia Saltech ammo sticks about 1 every 10 in my BM-59s. I have one with Italian barrel, and another with a domestic barrel, maybe Criterion, and in both it sticks. Exactly same problem as described in this forum. It is not the rifles, it is the ammo. Both of my rifles run great on russian steel case stuff.

[Pat Riot]

16 hours ago, angleofattack said:

Thia Saltech ammo sticks about 1 every 10 in my BM-59s. I have one with Italian barrel, and another with a domestic barrel, maybe Criterion, and in both it sticks. Exactly same problem as described in this forum. It is not the rifles, it is the ammo. Both of my rifles run great on russian steel case stuff.

Thanks for your report. 
 

My nephew and I ran the remaining  140 or so rounds of that Saltech ammo through my Garand the other day. As he was shooting I would watch the brass eject. Half the brass was throw back to the right at 45 degrees about 10-12 feet. The other half would eject at about a 90 degree angle and skip across the bench then fall to the ground. I could tell a difference in the report as well. 
Not only is the brass not right, but the loads seems to vary. 
I’ll not buy this ammo again. 

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:53 AM, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Deployed , Lucas would send us their CLP free for our team , Really got to like it and still use it doesn't seem to carbon up like normal CLP and we ran some rounds at times through ours 

 

"If it works well in the AR platform," says I, "it ought to be good stuff for everything else!"

Hit the saddle, head for town, I'm on the hunt!

Hardware store ... they've got everything hey look, they've got pre-mixed weed eater fuel ... but not Lucas Oil CLP.

Three auto parts stores in town, first two ... well, I need a can of brake cleaner, let's get that ... but no Lucas Oil CLP.

Third one, I found a shelf of a wonderful variety of Lucas products, but again, no CLP.

I'm headed for the door with my arm tight against my side -- we've rain coming, old war wound, didn't realize I was splinting -- anyway, the helpful soul behind the register noted my distress and asked if she could help me find something.

Told her what I was looking for.

It was four feet from me, right in plain view.

Right ... in ... plain ... view.

No wonder I couldn't find it.

We laughed about it ... I told her, "Typical husband, send me to the store and I can't find my hat with both hands!"

 

[Pat Riot]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:53 AM, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Deployed , Lucas would send us their CLP free for our team , Really got to like it and still use it doesn't seem to carbon up like normal CLP and we ran some rounds at times through ours 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103 said:

"If it works well in the AR platform," says I, "it ought to be good stuff for everything else!"

Hit the saddle, head for town, I'm on the hunt!

Hardware store ... they've got everything hey look, they've got pre-mixed weed eater fuel ... but not Lucas Oil CLP.

Three auto parts stores in town, first two ... well, I need a can of brake cleaner, let's get that ... but no Lucas Oil CLP.

Third one, I found a shelf of a wonderful variety of Lucas products, but again, no CLP.

I'm headed for the door with my arm tight against my side -- we've rain coming, old war wound, didn't realize I was splinting -- anyway, the helpful soul behind the register noted my distress and asked if she could help me find something.

Told her what I was looking for.

It was four feet from me, right in plain view.

Right ... in ... plain ... view.

No wonder I couldn't find it.

We laughed about it ... I told her, "Typical husband, send me to the store and I can't find my hat with both hands!"

 

I forgot to mention that I bought some Lucas CLP spray. I tried it on my SFAR. I like it. Will definitely try their liquid too. 
 

Thank you @PowderRiverCowboy 

[PowderRiverCowboy]

13 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

 

I forgot to mention that I bought some Lucas CLP spray. I tried it on my SFAR. I like it. Will definitely try their liquid too. 
 

Thank you @PowderRiverCowboy 

 I like it and run it hard at times , as well as the small lube bottle of CLP , and Thank You because ordering some stuff from Midway and needed a few bucks to make free shipping LOL