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Black powder shooters - new to me question


Alpo
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Another board. Guy wants to load black powder cartridge. Wants to know if coated bullets will work, or if lube is mandatory.

 

My immediate reaction is that you still need lube, because part of the purpose for the lube is to keep the powder fouling soft.

 

But I haven't shot black powder in decades - way before powder coated bullets existed. So that's just my opinion.

 

Does anyone do it? Powder coated bullet in black powder cartridge? Is lube still required?

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I shoot coated bullets that I have lubed, my opinion they still don't carry enough lube - I'm in the process of switching to uncoated big lube bullets (have about 250 of the coated ones left to use up).

 

But no, the powder coating doesn't do the trick of keeping the powder fouling soft.   Not in my experience anyway.

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The more lube the better, for Real BP.

Substitutes are a different thing.

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in my rossi at the last match, I attempted to get my powder coated bullets lubed with 50/50 beeswax venison tallow.  it was pretty much unsuccessful and the lube fell off the bullets and I ended up loading a bunch of them with no lube, just powder coat.  the ones that were lubed were not lubed very well.  I got through 5 stages with only one user induced malfunction.  I didn't notice any issues with fouling to speak of.  I'm not sure if a longer match would have caused issues for me.  I was using Pyrodex P in 38 special cases, Lee 358-125-rf bullet.

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37 minutes ago, El CupAJoe said:

in my rossi at the last match, I attempted to get my powder coated bullets lubed with 50/50 beeswax venison tallow.  it was pretty much unsuccessful and the lube fell off the bullets and I ended up loading a bunch of them with no lube, just powder coat.  the ones that were lubed were not lubed very well.  I got through 5 stages with only one user induced malfunction.  I didn't notice any issues with fouling to speak of.  I'm not sure if a longer match would have caused issues for me.  I was using Pyrodex P in 38 special cases, Lee 358-125-rf bullet.

 

Why in the world are you shooting Pyrodex?  Its the most corrosive substance you can shoot in a firearm by at least a factor of 100.

 

APP is 100 times less corrosive, cheaper, and can be shipped to your door.

 

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:FlagAm: I have used moly coated bullets in my BP loading since 2001.  The catch is, not by themselves.  At the bullet seating station, I place a 1/16" thick card wad, followed by a 1/8" grease cookie made from three cups of bees wax, 1/2 cup of both olive oil and crisco, followed by a hard, overshot card wad to keep the cookie from sticking to the base of the bullet.  I use only authentic BP, mostly FFFG and fill the case so that when I seat the "bullet column", I have at least 3/16" of compression.  Seating die normally leaves a slight ring around the nose of the bullet.  Burns clean enough that I do not touch the pistols or rifle throughout a twelve stage match.  Goes for any caliber and gun I am using from 32WCF to 45Colt.  

Just my experience.

In talking with bullet suppliers that use the red coating, they believe the extra heat generated by the BP will melt the coating and create a mess in the bore.  Without testing, I think those bullets could be used if loaded as I do, buffering the bullet from direct contact with the BP.

Chas B:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 said:

:FlagAm: I have used moly coated bullets in my BP loading since 2001.  The catch is, not by themselves.  At the bullet seating station, I place a 1/16" thick card wad, followed by a 1/8" grease cookie made from three cups of bees wax, 1/2 cup of both olive oil and crisco, followed by a hard, overshot card wad to keep the cookie from sticking to the base of the bullet.  I use only authentic BP, mostly FFFG and fill the case so that when I seat the "bullet column", I have at least 3/16" of compression.  Seating die normally leaves a slight ring around the nose of the bullet.  Burns clean enough that I do not touch the pistols or rifle throughout a twelve stage match.  Goes for any caliber and gun I am using from 32WCF to 45Colt.  

Just my experience.

In talking with bullet suppliers that use the red coating, they believe the extra heat generated by the BP will melt the coating and create a mess in the bore.  Without testing, I think those bullets could be used if loaded as I do, buffering the bullet from direct contact with the BP.

Chas B:ph34r:

 

Can't find the study but I remember reading an experiment where flash paper was placed between the bullet base and a compressed load of BP. When fired over a smooth surface the almost all of the flash paper disks could be found intact out in front of the muzzle. 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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I know some guys who are shooting polymer coated bullets with BP in pistols.  No lube.  I think they are doing some swabbing between stages.  And they run APP in the rifle.

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6 hours ago, Alpo said:

Another board. Guy wants to load black powder cartridge. Wants to know if coated bullets will work, or if lube is mandatory.

 

My immediate reaction is that you still need lube, because part of the purpose for the lube is to keep the powder fouling soft.

 

But I haven't shot black powder in decades - way before powder coated bullets existed. So that's just my opinion.

 

Does anyone do it? Powder coated bullet in black powder cartridge? Is lube still required?

Real TRUE black, Yes.

Substitutes, no

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I lube the grooves of the bullet with SPG. You want a bullet with a lot of deep grooves. There are several ways to lube a bullet, so do your research, and pick one you think does the best job for you. I used the "pan lube" method, for a bucket-load of years. I do have a lubri-sizer, as well.  

I then load the bullet into the brass case, with my Rock Chucker, and then take the completed bullet, and dip the end of the bullet into some melted SPG, to coat the outside of the lead bullet.

Yep, I Iube the (curds, and) whey, out of my black powder bullets...and slather it on. 

If I am shooting my Sharps, I wipe the bore, between shots, with a patch soaked in rubbing alcohol. It helps get the fouling out, and the alcohol evaporates fast. If I use it in my lever actions, I run an alcohol patch down the bore, after I have shot my string. I clean my revolvers pretty often, and remove the cylinder pin, and wipe that down, and run a patch through the bore. I have used Ballistol, instead of alcohol, too, but I have to admit, the rubbing alcohol smells better than the Ballistol. Pee-Yew!  

I do not use black powder substitutes. I use Goex, or Swiss. I know Goex is not being manufactured, right now, but I have about 12 pounds of it. 

I prefer Swiss, when I can get it. 

 

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On 6/17/2022 at 1:28 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Why in the world are you shooting Pyrodex?  Its the most corrosive substance you can shoot in a firearm by at least a factor of 100.

 

APP is 100 times less corrosive, cheaper, and can be shipped to your door.

 

And 100% not available locally... I never buy enough to justify shipping. I've been looking out for some app for a couple years now.  I'll buy a pound or two if I can find it.

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Short Answers

 

Yes.  Coated Bullets will work, When Lubed.  But most don't carry enough lube.

 

Yes.  Lube is mandatory for a Harmonious outcome.

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Or use a lube cookie under the lubed coated bullet. Pour melted lube over felt and cut out proper sized patches. Powder patch bullet. 

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