Clay Mosby Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Reason for asking, I inherited my Dad's virtual pistols when my mom passed. Oe is a Fabrique Nationale D'Armes de Guerre Herstal Belgique stamped Browning S Patent Depose. The barrel is stamped CAL 9m/m. However it was stored with two boxes of .380 auto, and one 25rnd box of 9mm. The other is a little Italian ITALY.single action revolver in 22 stamped ARMI FLLI TANFOGLIO BERSCIA ITALY. As far as I can tell it's only claim to fame is a very uncomfortable right handed molded set of plastic grip panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I assume you are aware that they're different calibers? .380 is shorter than 9mm, and is also known as 9x17mm while the 9mm we all know and love is 9x19mm. A .380 will drop into a 9mm chamber but it will go in deeper, and the case will split if you try and fire it, assuming it fires at all. I believe it is also slightly smaller in diameter. The easy way to tell which one it is would be to try dropping a 9x19mm cartridge into the barrel and seeing if it will drop in and sit flush with the chamber hood. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 9mm is simply the diameter of the bullet. When most people here in the good ol' U S of A say "9mm" they are speaking specifically about the 9x19mm, aka 9mm Luger, aka 9mm Parabellum, aka 9mm NATO. There are, howsomever, many many 9mm cartridges - for rifle, for pistol, and even for shotgun. The 380 ACP (as it is known in this country) is called (in Spain) the 9mm Corto, (in Germany) the 9mm Kurz, (in France) the 9mm Court. It is also called the 9x17mm. Mostly, however, it is known as the 9mm Browning Short. Your virtual Browning could be a GP (a full-size holster gun) in 9x19, or one of several pocket pistols in 9x17. A picture would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share Posted June 18, 2019 Here ya go, virtual pictures. I pulled out the calipers and all three boxes of virtual ammo measure .980-ish by .370-ish, even though the little French (?) box says 9mm. I cycled a round through and it seemed to fit the magazine correctly, in fact 17mm round would not fit. Thanks for the info guys. I'll see about getting some .380 auto before gruesoms new punish the innocent law goes into effect the end of this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 That appears to be a 1922. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 And a little info about that yellow box. https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/gevelot-9mm-bayard-cartridges/3843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Howdy Clay. Hope you are doing well. The 9mm ONLY specifies caliber (diameter) of bullet. As some very knowledgeable Pards have already noted, there is a difference between the .380 and 9mm. There are many 9mm 'calibers' available but ya gotta make sure you shoot them in proper pistols. There is the 9x17; 9x19; 9x21; 9x23; and the 9x25 Dillon (which is a barn burner). And if you want to have a little more useless info, the .357 Sig is also a 9mm in caliber. It also uses a .355 bullet, just like all the other 9mm I listed above. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, Clay Mosby said: 9mm Bayard is another animal altogether: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Largo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubbins Colt #7802 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Well, you got all of the technical answers I would have supplied. Howdy, Alpo! Good job! Clay, that's a very cool pistol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Clay Mosby said: Here ya go, virtual pictures. I pulled out the calipers and all three boxes of virtual ammo measure .980-ish by .370-ish, even though the little French (?) box says 9mm. I cycled a round through and it seemed to fit the magazine correctly, in fact 17mm round would not fit. Thanks for the info guys. I'll see about getting some .380 auto before gruesoms new punish the innocent law goes into effect the end of this month. You might have to do a chamber cast to know for sure. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Every time I look at the picture of that pistol I think of Jimmy Durante, for some odd reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Alpo said: That appears to be a 1922. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_1910 Yup.It’s a 1922. https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/9/5/i-have-this-old-gun-fn-browning-model-1922-pistol/ And a short vid of the 32 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I would take it to a gunsmith to verify the 9mm chambering. This link below says 9x17 which is the 9mm Browning which is the .380 ACP. I would get it verified just to be safe. Here is a little info: https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Howdy, It comes to mind 9mm kurtz might be the chambering?? That they might have just left off the kurtz, which translates short, or so I'm told. please don't ruin that great old bit of history. Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 From a cartridge collectors site Quote Your Gevelot 9mm Bayard cartridges are caliber 9mm Court (9mm short; .380 auto). the temptation when seeing a report of a box marked “Bayard” is to identify them as being of caliber 9 x 23mm Bergmann-Bayard caliber. However, French boxes for that caliber are marked “STAR” while they marked the .380 boxes as 9mm Bayard. the firm of anciens Etablissements Pieper, in Belgium, made a nice, very small .380 auto under their Bayard (a mounted Knight) trademark, hence the French designation for the cartridge. I happen to have both the Bayard and the Star boxes in my own collection, so it didn’t matter here, but it is always helpful when you want a cartridge identified to give all measurements. In the case of auto pistol rounds, at least the caliber (9mm in this case) and the case length (17mm in this instance). I would still do a chamber cast to be 100% sure. It is not hard to do and will remove any doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 They only made the model 1922 in .380 (9mm Kurtz) and .32 ACP (7.94mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: .32 ACP (7.94mm) Fingers gettin' sleepy there? 32 ACP is 7.65 Browning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 I'm pretty confident now that it is the .380 auto as all ammo stored with it is of that caliber and I do remember shooting it in my youth. (Long, long time ago) It seemed a lot bigger back then. But I will get it checked before firing. I did a little wandering through the infoweb in search of a spare magazine for it. Numrich wants a whopping $51.75 for one!!! Someone on ebay is selling a three pack for $38. Are there brands to avoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Based on my single purchase of one magazine for a Colt Junior (Astra Cub), where the magazine was the correct height, the correct width, the correct depth, but the locking notch was in the wrong place so that when the magazine locked into place it set too low in the magazine well and cartridges would not feed. Stay away from Triple K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 13 hours ago, Alpo said: Fingers gettin' sleepy there? 32 ACP is 7.65 Browning. Don't know where that came from. I'll blame it on my wife as usua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 If you have to ask ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I have both. About the same difference as an old time .38 Spl. 158 gr RN and at LEAST a .38 +P if not a .357 Mag. .380 ACP is pretty much a mouse gun, at least in my Mustang. JHC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 $@#$%^^ touch pad. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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