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Here are a 12 ga mouth expander & crimper, both are threaded to fit in a standard 7/8" press.

 

They screw in from the bottom & work as long as your press opening is large enough.

 

Unknown maker..

 

 

bed654a0-3688-4dbd-94ef-90fb0a5c9f27_zps

 

2bac1d58-de20-484e-8720-b296a9bf2a37_zps

 

Another way to crimp would be a Hreters' type crimp tool.

This one fits the old Herters' press with the large fine thread1-1/4" x 18, as oppossed to current RCBS 1-1/4" x 12.

I would think you could have one made to fit other press sizes.

The advantage is that this one will work for any gauge.

 

36c6d627-36d5-46ad-a756-bc1476868f47_zps

Edited by Earl Brasse, SASS #3562
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Here are a few pictures of my workshop when I was converting Russian Steel 12ga. Hulls to use 209 primers and shortening them from 2.75 inches to 2.50 inches to use in my 1887 lever action shotgun repro.

 

100_0018.jpg

 

In the above picture, the shells on the far left and far right are unmodified Berdan primed hulls. The one in the middle has a #209 primer seated in the hull replacing the original primers. Note the headstamp markings. The center one tells us that it was manufactured in December of 1992. December 1993 is the date on the outboard hulls. Also note the icon that tells the shooter that the hull has a Berdan type primer.

 

 

12%20Ga.%20Metalic%20Hulls.jpg

 

Here are the first batch of shells, all loaded and waiting for the glue to dry over the over shot wad.

 

100_0066%201.jpg

 

This photo shows the array of tools used to shorten the hulls and load them.

 

 

 

100_0070%201.jpg

 

This Photo shows the how the original primer looks compared to the modified case w/a 209 primer.

 

100_0063.jpg

 

This photo shows the C&H 12ga sizing die mounted in my RCBS Rock Chucker. I use RCBS Case Lube to size these hulls.

 

100_0021.jpg

 

The antique tools seen here are great for reloading brass hulls, but they did not work all that well with the Russian Steel hulls. I was real leery using the priming tool with the 209 primers, so I went with the Lee Loader’s priming tool/wad seater and the wooden mallet.

 

100_0035%201.jpg

 

. I removed the de-capping stem from the die body as it wouldn’t remove the No. 209 primers from the hulls.

 

100_0026.jpg

 

The picture above shows all I needed to reload my Russian hulls once I have re-primed the hulls.

Edited by Grapeshot 8553
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Deadeye George question.

How are you rolling the mouth. I'm looking for another way other then the RCBS dies.

 

Thanks

 

I'm using the RCBS die mounted in my Hornady single stage press which has the "standard" or most common press threads which the RCBS die uses. I set my RCBS die to give me just a slight curve and it's working perfectly for me so far. It puts just enough of a curved lip on the brass case that inserting two of them into my barrels is a breeze as apposed to trying to stick two straight wall cases in. I have tried both ways and there IS a difference to me. While I don't plan on being a speed demon especially using a double hammered SXS, it's nice to pop open the chamber, toss the empties (Which DO just fly right out) then plop two more in in a timely manner.

 

The way I see it............ since I am using the tight fitting 10 gauge overshot card which is glued in securely holding all the goodies inside, there is no real need to crimp the ends of the cases except to afford easier loading.

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20160625_071604_zpsmovaj9vp.jpg

 

10 gauge plastic wads. The Remington SP-10 on left and BPI PT-1044 on right.

 

The base on the Remington SP-10 wad seems much stiffer. I've not used the SP-10 wad.

 

Has anyone given the 10 gauge plastic wads a try?

 

A commemt about plastic snake left in bore. I've not experienced anything to be alarmed about. Hot, hot water and a pass with brush gets 95%. I push a wad of paper towel through a couple of times then again with clean towel. I finish up with Thompsons Bore Butter.

 

Between stages at the range I pour just a litte water down each bore and pull snake through.

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Warden I haven't tried the 10 gauge wads yet but plan to based on your comments and would be most curious to see if the shot pattern changes much due to the tighter fitting wad in the case.

 

My two pennies worth on the plastic snake or black ribbon after shooting... I LOVE SEEING IT! I use Alliant BlackMz and will shoot the typical six stages at a match (24+ shells) and never touch the barrels until I get home. I have a 20" deep sink in my shop and will turn the hot water on and stick my barrel under the faucet for probably 1 minute then magically the black ribbon starts sliding out. I'll let it run another 10 seconds or so then run a jag with a dry patch through the barrel, take an air nozzle and dry the barrel inside and out, wipe the bore with a patch soaked with Rem Oil and reassemble the shotgun..... DONE!

 

To me, watching that ribbon come sliding out on it's own beats using smokeless powder and having to scrub the bore with brushes swabs and solvents.

Edited by Deadeye George
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Warden,

 

Are you using the 10 ga wads in 12 ga hulls? Maybe you mentioned that before and I just missed it.

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Grapeshot,

 

How did you modify the berdan primed hulls to take 209 primers? I have 200 Remington DU hulls, which I found out are berdan primed... after I bought them... some 25 years ago... I'd just as soon load 'em up.

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I will be at BT, and shooting my Brassers.

 

Lets plan on an evening over dinner of discussion on the topic at hand.

 

How many will be there shooting the brass shells or have a sample for show & tell ?

 

I only do a roll crimp on the case when it needs a touch up, or when they are new. And I do not anneal the case mouths. You can, BUT! be careful how far down you go. Sage Rider annealed some case's and went to far, they expanded in the chamber and he had to drive them out with a cleaning rod. I would say, no more than a 1/4".

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I will be at BT, and shooting my Brassers.

 

Lets plan on an evening over dinner of discussion on the topic at hand.

 

How many will be there shooting the brass shells or have a sample for show & tell ?

 

I only do a roll crimp on the case when it needs a touch up, or when they are new. And I do not anneal the case mouths. You can, BUT! be careful how far down you go. Sage Rider annealed some case's and went to far, they expanded in the chamber and he had to drive them out with a cleaning rod. I would say, no more than a 1/4".

I'll be there and since I totally switched from plastic to brass, I'll have mine. I've got 200 cases now and think that will be enough to rotate around for practice and my matches.

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  • 2 months later...

20160625_071604_zpsmovaj9vp.jpg

10 gauge plastic wads. The Remington SP-10 on left and BPI PT-1044 on right.

The base on the Remington SP-10 wad seems much stiffer. I've not used the SP-10 wad.

Has anyone given the 10 gauge plastic wads a try?

A commemt about plastic snake left in bore. I've not experienced anything to be alarmed about. Hot, hot water and a pass with brush gets 95%. I push a wad of paper towel through a couple of times then again with clean towel. I finish up with Thompsons Bore Butter.

Between stages at the range I pour just a litte water down each bore and pull snake through.

Update: I just loaded some 12 gauge and used up the last BPI wads in that bag. I have a broken bag of SP-10 wads so I got 4 out that I needed to finish up. They went in fine but are a cork fit. Seems the bases are smaller but the bottom of the cup diameter is larger than the BPI wad. I pulled them back out and broke open a second bag of BPI wads.

 

The good news is, the Remington SP-10 wad fits tolerability well in my 10 gauge brass hulls. I have been loading these with 9 gauge over powder card, 1/2" thick 10 gauge fiber wad, packing peanut and 8 gauge top card.

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I shoot 10 gauge 3-1/2" black powder. It is a hoot!!! Simply get a BP kit and place a 209 primer on the metal base and set it with the brass primer rod. Fill it with two dippers of Holy Black, top that with a 10 gauge nitro wad, then 2 or 3 8 gauge fiber wads, drop in 2 ounces or more of Number 9 shot and top that with an 8 gauge overshot wad covered with Duco cement. Let it dry, check them for a complete seal, put them in your 10 gauge belt loops and have a ball at your club range. Night shooting is one whale of a lot of fun!

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I had several boxes before I rolled my Rv in 09 and really liked them for bp loading while on the road. I've started buying used ones now so I can get a few hundred to load at a time and shot when I shoot bp in the future. I have used both the old Winchester hand kit, and the rcbs cowboy 12 ga cowboy setup kit and plain tools like a board with a hole drilled in it and a hammer and punch for removing the spent primer, a bord and mallet to set the new primer set the primer on the board place the shell on top and tap lightly until primer is fully seated using a muzzle loader powder guage to measure the powder and pour it in the case, both fiber and plastic wads(I preferred) ladder shot until cup is full glue over shot card in I used hot glue after experimenting with different methods I use the rcbs die in a rc II press to round the end so it loads easier.

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Warden and Coffinmaker, those wads look like they have an awfully large shot cup, how much shot are ya'll using in the BPI PT-1044 wads? I may pick some up if the local store has some.

 

I can't believe I've already gone through a whole 500ct bag of the 12g wads I was using but the good thing is that I'm rotating 100 brass cases which means I've got a minimum of five firings on each one of the cases and none are showing any signs of wear whatsoever and I haven't re-crimped any of them and it looks I probably never will.

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Warden and Coffinmaker, those wads look like they have an awfully large shot cup, how much shot are ya'll using in the BPI PT-1044 wads? I may pick some up if the local store has some.

 

I can't believe I've already gone through a whole 500ct bag of the 12g wads I was using but the good thing is that I'm rotating 100 brass cases which means I've got a minimum of five firings on each one of the cases and none are showing any signs of wear whatsoever and I haven't re-crimped any of them and it looks I probably never will.

The BPI wads are made to hold 1-3/8 oz or more. I'm using 1oz in both 12 and 10 gauge. I press in a packing peanut on to to fill up the cup. Others have placed a 16 gauge fiber wad in the bottom of the cup before shot. Others have just trimmed the petals. Edited by Warden Callaway
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For those just getting into loading Magtech brass shotgun hulls, you well save time and frustration by checking and correcting the primer pockets on new brass before you start to load them. If you read back through all the posts, you will see comments about primer pocket problems.

 

I just got a box of 16 gauge Magtech brass hulls and right off I checked the primer pockets for depth. I was pleased to find them ok. But I noticed that the flash holes looked too small. Sure enough, the punches I had been using in about everything wouldn't come close to going into the flash hole. I drilled them out to 1/16". While the brass was shiny and I could see the nipple in the bottom of the hull, I took a drill bit, say 5/16", and cut the burr off the inside of the flash hole and maybe made a chamfer so the decaping pin would guide in easier. I also noticed that the edge of the primer pocket had no chamfer so I made a chamfer using a chamfering tool in my lathe.

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I'm not sure about that Lefty, but I do know they're not good to eat. kR

Need to be soaked in saltwater first...

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1/16" is not the primer flash hole size. It is a number drill size, IIRC. I have it written down some where. The proper size is on the end of the Lyman flash hole tool. I use this for my case prep.

Edited by Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223
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Did I hear loading blocks? Whadda ya think........ a bit overboard OR just neat and organized? :) I make five loading blocks for every caliber I load, looks like it's time to make some for the 12g brass.

 

loading-blocks.jpg

i just use the black mtn storage trays
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The primer flash hole drill is a # 46 drill, The hole should be .081"

 

1/16" = .0625"

Thanks, I have the brass loaded now. I'll see if the smaller hole shows any problems. The important point is - the flash holes were undersized by about half. You can't trust that they will be correct out of the box.

 

I thought I'd include some notes on loading the 16 gauge Magtech hulls.

 

I had hoped that 12 gauge plastic wads would work. But they are just too large. I bought a bag of 16 gauge over powder cards. But they are too small. They rattle around in the hull with a sizable gap. I didn't invest in 16 gauge cushion wads. Instead I used the organic packing peanuts. Two peanuts equal about 1/2" of wad. I topped the wad with a 12 gauge top card. The top card fit tight and actually cupped up around edge. 1 oz shot because that was the dipper I had out. Another packing peanut and topped with another 12 gauge top card - then school glue - as I'm out of Duco.

 

14 gauge over powder card and wad should work. But neither Grafs or MidwayUSA handle them. Track of the Wolf has them. They also have a handy chart listing wads for various brass and gauge.

 

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/item.aspx/171/1

 

If I fall in love with my latest rescue. I may invest in some 16 gauge plastic wads or maybe even some 14 gauge cards and wads

 

20160829_161449_zps08jltul4.jpg

 

Stevens 235 16 gauge.

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Deadeye, I trim the petals on my 10Ga wads. I use a flat anvil pruner.

 

Blackey, It is known, A super neat and well organized work space is the sign of a truly sick mind. :rolleyes:

 

Coffinmaker

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've never tried uploading a video here so just for grins I thought I'd try one. Here is a really short video showing how the RCBS shotshell die works for me. I deprime and prime my 12g brass shells using my Hornady single stage press with the Hornady primer feed tube and the RCBS shotgun die set. I thought when I got my progressive press this thing would live underneath the workbench forever but alas it has now found a new use. Nothing fancy, but I usually load around 50 cases and this will deprime and prime them in just a few minutes then I hand dip my powder, insert a wad, dip the shot, insert a card, seal it with glue and I'm done.

 

http://www.arizonapenco.com/images/XTCH0009.MP4

 

So, for those on the fence over buying the RCBS die set........... it works! :)

Edited by Deadeye George
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It's been a while since I did any brass shotshell loading even then I was using up the 12ga over shot cards I already had since I was glueing them anyway. But I think I'm out of them now. IIRC I need to use a 10 or 11 guage over shot card for the brass shells is that right before I order and where is the best place to get them from now, I'm going to use Remington sts/nitro wads as I prefer them to the fiber ones I'll deal with the plastic snot was hard since everything is seasoned with Amsoil mp.

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It's been a while since I did any brass shotshell loading even then I was using up the 12ga over shot cards I already had since I was glueing them anyway. But I think I'm out of them now. IIRC I need to use a 10 or 11 guage over shot card for the brass shells is that right before I order and where is the best place to get them from now, I'm going to use Remington sts/nitro wads as I prefer them to the fiber ones I'll deal with the plastic snot was hard since everything is seasoned with Amsoil mp.

 

I found that buying other than 12g size cards and wads, places like Midway and Grafs just don't have what we need. I've had the best luck using Precision Reloading (www.precisionreloading.com) and Ballistic Products ( www.ballisticproducts.com). Ballistic Products seems to be a bit pricier both in product and shipping BUT they have more of a selection.

 

As far as wad sizes go, you can read back through the thread and see where several folks list what they use but as far as overshot cards go, the consensus is 10g cards work the best. When using any 12g shot wads, remember that the inside diameters of the brass cases are wider than the 12g plastic hulls. That is why some are choosing 10g shot wads for a tighter fit.

Edited by Deadeye George
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  • 7 months later...
1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Allie Mo reatored this topic from archive.  Thanks!

 

I thought it a good collection of information on loading brass shotgun shells with black powder.

I just hope I can down load or print this out...All the pages...Too good not to have for reference...

 

TL

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  • 3 years later...

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