5,000 Rounds?

[DocWard]

Sounds like Los Angeles to me.

 

Mrs. Doc asked if they were trained by NYPD. Aren't they the ones that shot something like 50 rounds into what was essentially a "fatal funnel" and hit a guy with less than a third of the rounds? Or more recently fired over 80 rounds and hit the suspect once?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Spray and pray has a lot of appeal to some folks.

[Michigan Slim]

Maybe they had a minigun and only fired for a 100 seconds?

[Cat Brules]

RE: the police K-9

I speculated above that the dog may have been killed by friendly fire.

 

I heard on the news yesterday that SOP was to send the dog in first. It was stated that the police sent in the K-9 and the badguys killed the dog. I suppose you could joke, "and, that's when the fight started," but this ain't funny.

 

Obviously there's still a lot of confusion and contradiction in all this. The woman's getting a lot of attention now. It's said now that at first she cried out for help, then approached and detonated the suicide device, killing herself and perhaps the dog; it's not clear to me. It's now stated that the explosion is what collapsed the floor in the biilding. This part's grisly: Supposedly the explosion blew the woman into pieces, with her head and spine blown out of the building and somehow wound up lying on a police car.

 

Listening to the video replays, it sounds like the police weapons were either being fired rapidly on semi-auto or that they are a slow-rate-of-fire full-auto. Interesting, but hardly relevant, OTHER THAN the fact that a slow rate full-auto is easier to control, and therefore, arguably allows for more accurate shot placement.

 

Regarding the expenditure of 5000 rounds, upon reflection, I'm sure the mentality of the security folk was that, "We didn't come here to lose!" I'm guessing they hosed down the place to confuse and panic the targets and to mitigate their ability to detonate explosive devices. I don't know how many security there were actually on the assault team, but I just imagine that more than ten or twelve could be counter-productive.....I don't know. There were probably 3 to 4 times their number acting in "non-operative," support and administrative positions.

 

These folks, I think, acted with amazing restraint, in my view. They captured at least 2 of the badguys at the shootout alive, giving credence to the idea that much of the shooting was to confuse and panic the bad guys.

 

Any comments or ideas regarding any of this?

[Shootin' Shu]

The dog was killed when the female detonated her vest.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Give them a whiff of grapeshot.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Or that new Remington shotgun shell over on the other thread.

[Trailrider #896]

"And at fifty yards, Sergeant, give 'em triple-cannister!"

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

George Patton instructed his troops to lay down fire at any place the enemy MIGHT be hiding. As you approach any place you would hide if you were in their place, saturate it with fire. Ammo is cheap, soldiers lives are not. It probably doesn't sound like Patton to many of you but those were his instructions.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

We could use Ole George about now.

 

I think he would find a good use for those rules of engagement.

[guitar_slinger]

5,000 rounds? Heck that's not even a very big cowboy match.

 

GS

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

5,000 rounds? Heck that's not even a very big cowboy match.

 

GS

the pistol round count for a medium sized match?

[Utah Bob #35998]

The dog was killed when the female detonated her vest.

Turns out it wasn't a female.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Still a lot of confusing and probably wrong information about this.

I have no idea if the 5,000 round figure is even accurate. One wonders how and why they even have that info so soon?

But lets assume this is accurate. Okay. This was not an arrest scenario after the first few seconds. It became a combat scenario and an extended firefight with the bad guys using AKs and explosives. Anyone who has been in a firefight knows a lot of rounds go downrange.

A lot.

[Shootin' Shu]

Turns out it wasn't a female.

Diesel was sent into an apartment in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis, where a group of jihadists was holed up, to check for explosives before the cops stormed inside.

 

The cousin of alleged ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud detonated her explosive vest, killing herself, a fellow terrorist and the brave Belgian shepherd, authorities said.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Diesel was sent into an apartment in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis, where a group of jihadists was holed up, to check for explosives before the cops stormed inside.

The cousin of alleged ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud detonated her explosive vest, killing herself, a fellow terrorist and the brave Belgian shepherd, authorities said.

The report I saw said that though she was killed it was believed that the vest wasn't on her but another terrorist. Here's one that says it it was in fact her. Still a lot of different info. It will be sorted out and put together eventually I guess.

(She will probably not be put together though)

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/officials-suspected-paris-mastermind-cousin-died-in-raid/

[DocWard]

Still a lot of confusing and probably wrong information about this.

I have no idea if the 5,000 round figure is even accurate. One wonders how and why they even have that info so soon?

But lets assume this is accurate. Okay. This was not an arrest scenario after the first few seconds. It became a combat scenario and an extended firefight with the bad guys using AKs and explosives. Anyone who has been in a firefight knows a lot of rounds go downrange.

A lot.

A valid point. I still cringe at the thought in an urban area.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

What worries me is that a lot of urban dwellers will believe this will be a hollywood shoot scene

and everybody will get up and go home after. When things go boom, it doesn't seem to work that

way.

[Utah Bob #35998]

A valid point. I still cringe at the thought in an urban area.

It is definitely cringeworthy.

I remember the SLA shootout in '74. Also cringeworthy.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

Well, I'm neither LEO or military, so I'm no expert for sure, but sounds like lots of rounds to me unless they were shooting sub guns or mini guns. You have to consider the credibility of the source too. You know how the media is, some guy could have an SKS and a few stripper clips and all of a sudden he has an "assault rifle" and a "huge cache of ammo".

 

JHC

[Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171]

The report I saw said that though she was killed it was believed that the vest wasn't on her but another terrorist. Here's one that says it it was in fact her. Still a lot of different info. It will be sorted out and put together eventually I guess.

(She will probably not be put together though)

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/officials-suspected-paris-mastermind-cousin-died-in-raid/

 

The cops show up and you go all to pieces? Pull yourself together Lady!

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

5,000 rounds for two terroists. Seems pretty good compared to the rate in Iraq and Afganistan.

 

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

[Utah Bob #35998]

Well, I'm neither LEO or military, so I'm no expert for sure, but sounds like lots of rounds to me unless they were shooting sub guns or mini guns. You have to consider the credibility of the source too. You know how the media is, some guy could have an SKS and a few stripper clips and all of a sudden he has an "assault rifle" and a "huge cache of ammo".

 

JHC

The 5000 round stat came from the Paris prosecutor. We'll see.