DocWard Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Sounds like Los Angeles to me. Mrs. Doc asked if they were trained by NYPD. Aren't they the ones that shot something like 50 rounds into what was essentially a "fatal funnel" and hit a guy with less than a third of the rounds? Or more recently fired over 80 rounds and hit the suspect once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Spray and pray has a lot of appeal to some folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Maybe they had a minigun and only fired for a 100 seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 RE: the police K-9 I speculated above that the dog may have been killed by friendly fire. I heard on the news yesterday that SOP was to send the dog in first. It was stated that the police sent in the K-9 and the badguys killed the dog. I suppose you could joke, "and, that's when the fight started," but this ain't funny. Obviously there's still a lot of confusion and contradiction in all this. The woman's getting a lot of attention now. It's said now that at first she cried out for help, then approached and detonated the suicide device, killing herself and perhaps the dog; it's not clear to me. It's now stated that the explosion is what collapsed the floor in the biilding. This part's grisly: Supposedly the explosion blew the woman into pieces, with her head and spine blown out of the building and somehow wound up lying on a police car. Listening to the video replays, it sounds like the police weapons were either being fired rapidly on semi-auto or that they are a slow-rate-of-fire full-auto. Interesting, but hardly relevant, OTHER THAN the fact that a slow rate full-auto is easier to control, and therefore, arguably allows for more accurate shot placement. Regarding the expenditure of 5000 rounds, upon reflection, I'm sure the mentality of the security folk was that, "We didn't come here to lose!" I'm guessing they hosed down the place to confuse and panic the targets and to mitigate their ability to detonate explosive devices. I don't know how many security there were actually on the assault team, but I just imagine that more than ten or twelve could be counter-productive.....I don't know. There were probably 3 to 4 times their number acting in "non-operative," support and administrative positions. These folks, I think, acted with amazing restraint, in my view. They captured at least 2 of the badguys at the shootout alive, giving credence to the idea that much of the shooting was to confuse and panic the bad guys. Any comments or ideas regarding any of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootin' Shu Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The dog was killed when the female detonated her vest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Give them a whiff of grapeshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Or that new Remington shotgun shell over on the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "And at fifty yards, Sergeant, give 'em triple-cannister!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 George Patton instructed his troops to lay down fire at any place the enemy MIGHT be hiding. As you approach any place you would hide if you were in their place, saturate it with fire. Ammo is cheap, soldiers lives are not. It probably doesn't sound like Patton to many of you but those were his instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 We could use Ole George about now. I think he would find a good use for those rules of engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_slinger Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 5,000 rounds? Heck that's not even a very big cowboy match. GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 5,000 rounds? Heck that's not even a very big cowboy match. GS the pistol round count for a medium sized match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The dog was killed when the female detonated her vest.Turns out it wasn't a female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Still a lot of confusing and probably wrong information about this. I have no idea if the 5,000 round figure is even accurate. One wonders how and why they even have that info so soon? But lets assume this is accurate. Okay. This was not an arrest scenario after the first few seconds. It became a combat scenario and an extended firefight with the bad guys using AKs and explosives. Anyone who has been in a firefight knows a lot of rounds go downrange. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootin' Shu Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Turns out it wasn't a female. Diesel was sent into an apartment in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis, where a group of jihadists was holed up, to check for explosives before the cops stormed inside. The cousin of alleged ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud detonated her explosive vest, killing herself, a fellow terrorist and the brave Belgian shepherd, authorities said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Diesel was sent into an apartment in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis, where a group of jihadists was holed up, to check for explosives before the cops stormed inside. The cousin of alleged ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud detonated her explosive vest, killing herself, a fellow terrorist and the brave Belgian shepherd, authorities said. The report I saw said that though she was killed it was believed that the vest wasn't on her but another terrorist. Here's one that says it it was in fact her. Still a lot of different info. It will be sorted out and put together eventually I guess. (She will probably not be put together though) http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/officials-suspected-paris-mastermind-cousin-died-in-raid/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Still a lot of confusing and probably wrong information about this. I have no idea if the 5,000 round figure is even accurate. One wonders how and why they even have that info so soon? But lets assume this is accurate. Okay. This was not an arrest scenario after the first few seconds. It became a combat scenario and an extended firefight with the bad guys using AKs and explosives. Anyone who has been in a firefight knows a lot of rounds go downrange. A lot. A valid point. I still cringe at the thought in an urban area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 What worries me is that a lot of urban dwellers will believe this will be a hollywood shoot scene and everybody will get up and go home after. When things go boom, it doesn't seem to work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 A valid point. I still cringe at the thought in an urban area.It is definitely cringeworthy.I remember the SLA shootout in '74. Also cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Well, I'm neither LEO or military, so I'm no expert for sure, but sounds like lots of rounds to me unless they were shooting sub guns or mini guns. You have to consider the credibility of the source too. You know how the media is, some guy could have an SKS and a few stripper clips and all of a sudden he has an "assault rifle" and a "huge cache of ammo". JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugs Bonney SASS # 10171 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The report I saw said that though she was killed it was believed that the vest wasn't on her but another terrorist. Here's one that says it it was in fact her. Still a lot of different info. It will be sorted out and put together eventually I guess. (She will probably not be put together though) http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/officials-suspected-paris-mastermind-cousin-died-in-raid/ The cops show up and you go all to pieces? Pull yourself together Lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 5,000 rounds for two terroists. Seems pretty good compared to the rate in Iraq and Afganistan. http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Well, I'm neither LEO or military, so I'm no expert for sure, but sounds like lots of rounds to me unless they were shooting sub guns or mini guns. You have to consider the credibility of the source too. You know how the media is, some guy could have an SKS and a few stripper clips and all of a sudden he has an "assault rifle" and a "huge cache of ammo". JHC The 5000 round stat came from the Paris prosecutor. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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