Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I guess video says it all. Watch his hand, and also ability to assist shooter, etc. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 While it looks neat, we would not include a stage of this design. Steps... no steps. I can't see how the guns are propped but we just don't stage long guns standing. Confined area with no room for TO. We had a jail stage but it had two small windows with bars. It wasn't very friendly to shoot through - especially difficult for shot or tall shooters. As far as the TO, he has no way to direct the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 While it looks neat, we would not include a stage of this design. Steps... no steps. I can't see how the guns are propped but we just don't stage long guns standing. Confined area with no room for TO. We had a jail stage but it had two small windows with bars. It wasn't very friendly to shoot through - especially difficult for shot or tall shooters. As far as the TO, he has no way to direct the shooter. Maybe not able to assist shooter, but is able to assist spotters with misses. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Damn good spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Damn good spotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 We have a T/O who habitually tallied misses like that until I threatened to remove the offending digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yep, see it often enough to not be surprised anymore. . To bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 the prop is really small, but sadly that is how way too many TOs operate!!! my take, get behind the shooter's strong shoulder, from there you can see and do everything you need to do!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If he was counting shots fired to make sure all rounds are expended, that's one thing. If he's counting misses and not watching the shooter, that's another. I've seen worse on video but I'll not post a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The clock should be taken from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 the prop is really small, but sadly that is how way too many TOs operate!!! my take, get behind the shooter's strong shoulder, from there you can see and do everything you need to do!!!! Yep!! 1) He could have positioned himself closer to shooter (to assist) than what he was doing. As was, the shooter was out of his control, both physically and verbally. 2) Counting misses with his fingers. Ya know that influences the weak spotters. 3) Spend way to much time looking for edgers and not monitoring shooter. Of course, that is how he could keep up with the miss count. Hmmmmm, wonder if there was a difference in number of misses from the spotters vs TO, which count would be recorded? About all he was doing, was recording the time. Side note..... I see a lot of TO's just stand there and say nothing when the shooter has a squib and no one can verify if the bullet has left the barrel. Seen shooter try to lever in another round or shooter grounds gun and goes on and has to eat whatever rounds are in the gun. Again, about the only thing these TO's accomplish is record the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Pete SASS #42168 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I totally agree. I quit running the timer a long time ago. Way too many "Buddy Posses" who want to tell you how it should be done when their friends are shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I quit running the timer a long time ago. Way too many "Buddy Posses" who want to tell you how it should be done when their friends are shooting. Those are the ones I love running the timer on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. The video never ID the TO, nor area, just were I got it from, an Annual. I couldn't tell who. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taquila Tab, Sass #25048 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The video never ID the TO, nor area, just were I got it from, an Annual. I couldn't tell who. MT Just out of curiosity where you at that match? What year was the match held? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Just out of curiosity where you at that match? What year was the match held? Curious, No. Don't know when or were. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. Yep, just not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 There is only one cowboy video on this channel so it's hard to say if it could be done in a proper way. The stage handicapped everyone involved. I'd think spotters could be to right or left and see the hits/misses. But there is no room for TO to do his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. Uhhhhh.............Guys...............While this video MAY be a good demonstration for other folks of how not to run the timer, I don't think publicly shaming this poor fellow is the right course of action. We already have a hard enough time of getting people to accept the heavy burden of being a T.O., we certainly don't need to add public embarrassment to the list of reasons not to do it. I was taught long LONG ago that you reward in public but discipline in private. I agree. Often times I will delete a video or not upload it just to keep the peanut gallery from critiquing. But I've also been thanked by shooters for putting up a video of them having a train wreck or getting a penalty as it helped them identify what went wrong, or what they did. For the most part though, people are good about it and PM me with any input, that way I can pass it along in private if there really was an issue, but often times it can be a camera angle or other factor that makes it look like a problem when it really wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 I removed the video from here. Its on Youtube, so been around a while. Was probable edited to not show who, or when. I'll leave it at that, though there have been some around that also showed error, were we knew who was shooting. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some are worried about the TO, and the way it may make him feel. All a guy can see is average height male holding the clock, and spotting. I'm more concerned about the shooter in the cage with no help getting safely through the stage, and a TO not even near the shooter, yet adding up miss penalties. I've just been through a shoot like this not long ago, at a club shoot. One stage I tripled on, the TO gave me a clean run, while others were truly clean, the guy gave me a couple. This is so common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 While we may not know who it is I guarantee he and people from that club know. And if I were shooting inside that box I wouldn't want anybody in there. Also I have been to more than one shoot where I was a TO , spotter , brass picker and more at the same time. Sometimes it's that or no shoot. I've had good and not so good TOs but always thankful I had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You know what would really be helpful? Someone, say an RO instructor, to put together a right way/wrong way video on running the TO job. That way you can reenact a wrong way to do the job and not have to expose someone to ridicule. When we went through ROI and ROII training a couple of months back, we had a mock stage that was laid out as convoluted as possible. The RO instructor came out as the "next" shooter. He deliberately had many equipment and costuming problems. It was our job to identify the target and stage arrangement problems and the problems of the next shooter and how to handle the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You know what would really be helpful? Someone, say an RO instructor, to put together a right way/wrong way video on running the TO job. That way you can reenact a wrong way to do the job and not have to expose someone to ridicule. When we went through ROI and ROII training a couple of months back, we had a mock stage that was laid out as convoluted as possible. The RO instructor came out as the "next" shooter. He deliberately had many equipment and costuming problems. It was our job to identify the target and stage arrangement problems and the problems of the next shooter and how to handle the situation. Those have always been components of the SASS RO2 (Range Officer Training) Course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I guess video says it all. Watch his hand, and also ability to assist shooter, etc. MT Video is one demensional, there fore not always accurate in some cases, something to ponder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Those have always been components of the SASS RO2 (Range Officer Training) Course. I figured that was the case. I used it as an example of what could be incorporated into a video for the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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