Another attack by the Politically Correct

[Rancocas]

Another attack on the values of our founding fathers by the politically correct police.

 

Workers began removing a Ten Commandments monument from the grounds of the Oklahoma Capitol late Monday in accordance with a court order.

The Daily Oklahoman reported that the 6-foot high monument would be reinstalled outside the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs,

a conservative think tank.

A contractor hired by the state began removing the monument shortly after 10:30 p.m. local time.

The works comes after the Oklahoma Supreme Court's decision in June that the display violates a state constitutional prohibition

on the use of public property to support "any sect, church, denomination or system of religion"

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/06/workers-remove-ten-commandments-monument-from-oklahoma-capitol-grounds/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

What I don't understand is if the definition of religion is "an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence." How is it that atheism is not a religion?

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

Hmmm. See a similarity?

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-destroys-ancient-landmark-lose-palmyra-syrian-director/story?id=34254909

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

Yep, they keep poking the bear and sooner than later that bears going to bite and bite hard.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

We have one kinda like that on the Atoka, OK Courthouse lawn.....probably just a matter of time before they mess with it too.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Yep, they keep poking the bear and sooner than later that bears going to bite and bite hard.

That a biblical quote? I don't remember Jesus ever saying that, but I'm not as well versed as some.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

i don't have a problem with it as it should never have been erected in the first place. Worship in your home or church and spend your own money as you see fit. You'll get no judgement or comment from me.

 

I don't think people of other faiths (or any faith) should have to subsidize religious monuments with tax dollars. Our Constitution says so.

 

Having said that, I expect (and hope) Allie will pull this thread shortly.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Abilene Smith,

 

When do you think the Federal Government should pull and destroy all of the currency that has been printed and minted since they have "In God We Trust" printed on them?

 

The 10 Commandments are not a religion. They are set of moral codes that serves as guide for daily living and a orderly society. I wonder how the Supreme Court will view Sharia Law since it advocates obeying it instead of the Government?

[Smoken D]

If you have ever been in D.C. you will see a lot of government buildings with those words, "In God we Trust" engraved on the buildings.

[Alpo]

"The Ten Commandments is not a religion"?

 

You Shall Have No Other God Before Me.

 

If that ain't specifying a religion, I don't know what is.

 

The Ten Commandments is the basis for the Judeo/Christian religion. Has nothing to do with Buddism, Taoism, Hinduism, Islam, Satanism, Wicca, Paganism, Krishna, or any of the other umpteen-dozen religions in the world.

 

Just Judeo/Christian.

 

Now, them folks that ARE members of the Judeo/Christian faith probably have no problems with them being on government buildings, and courthouses, and schools, and other places like that.

 

Them that AREN'T members, however, as Slim said, should not have to pay for it.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

i don't have a problem with it as it should never have been erected in the first place. Worship in your home or church and spend your own money as you see fit. You'll get no judgement or comment from me.

 

I don't think people of other faiths (or any faith) should have to subsidize religious monuments with tax dollars. Our Constitution says so.

 

Having said that, I expect (and hope) Allie will pull this thread shortly.

I couldn't agree more.

[DocWard]

What I don't understand is if the definition of religion is "an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence." How is it that atheism is not a religion?

 

I would first need to ask where that definition comes from.

 

The Oxford Dictionary defines religion as "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Merriam-Webster gives us: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

 

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

All of them reference the supernatural or a belief in a god or gods. Looking at your definition, I would assert it appears to more accurately describe a philosophy. However, it is possible that atheists don't "relate humanity to an order of existence," beyond the mere fact of existence in the scientific--cosmological, geological and biological--respects of which it is understood.

 

i don't have a problem with it as it should never have been erected in the first place. Worship in your home or church and spend your own money as you see fit. You'll get no judgement or comment from me.

 

I don't think people of other faiths (or any faith) should have to subsidize religious monuments with tax dollars. Our Constitution says so.

 

Having said that, I expect (and hope) Allie will pull this thread shortly.

 

I am torn. I recognize that specific Commandments do promote a specific religion. The majority, though, do promote a moral code, which if followed, are very good ideas. Many are found in some way in the ideals of other religions and philosophies. Despite my own religion, I also recognize the impact of the Abrahamic traditions upon our nation's founding. From this point of view, I have no problem with its existence on public property.

 

You are right though, it shouldn't have been erected after the original was destroyed, and not subsidized by those of other faiths in any way.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

I would first need to ask where that definition comes from.

 

The Oxford Dictionary defines religion as "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Merriam-Webster gives us: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

 

: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

All of them reference the supernatural or a belief in a god or gods. Looking at your definition, I would assert it appears to more accurately describe a philosophy. However, it is possible that atheists don't "relate humanity to an order of existence," beyond the mere fact of existence in the scientific--cosmological, geological and biological--respects of which it is understood.

 

 

I am torn. I recognize that specific Commandments do promote a specific religion. The majority, though, do promote a moral code, which if followed, are very good ideas. Many are found in some way in the ideals of other religions and philosophies. Despite my own religion, I also recognize the impact of the Abrahamic traditions upon our nation's founding. From this point of view, I have no problem with its existence on public property.

 

You are right though, it shouldn't have been erected after the original was destroyed, and not subsidized by those of other faiths in any way.

Very good post, Doc. The only thing I would disagree with is the ten commandments as moral code. I mean you are right that it's a moral code, but who gets to decide that? Shouldn't something like that be voted upon? What if a local authority decided that their communities moral code dictated gun control, and thus placed a sign stating such regardless of what the law or community had decided on the matter?

[DocWard]

Very good post, Doc. The only thing I would disagree with is the ten commandments as moral code. I mean you are right that it's a moral code, but who gets to decide that? Shouldn't something like that be voted upon? What if a local authority decided that their communities moral code dictated gun control, and thus placed a sign stating such regardless of what the law or community had decided on the matter?

 

You make a good point. While I tend to look at "moral codes" as not having the impact of law, many do. Perhaps "words of wisdom" would be a better description. Many of them do have universal appeal, whether Christian, Jew, Buddhist or Atheist. Don't murder people, don't steal stuff, be respectful of your parents, etc... That is kind of where I was going with it in my mind.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

Careful, leaving any religious symbols or words containing reference to a God, may force all Americans to have to believe in a deity.

 

Look at all the problems the official United States of America motto, "In God We Trust" has caused since 1956 when it was signed into law.

 

Seriously?

[DocWard]

Perhaps we should post this everywhere:

 

The "Golden Rule" from various religious texts

Bahá'í Faith:

"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah

"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf. 1

Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "

Buddhism:

"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

Christianity:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.

"...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that circulated among the early Christian movement, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

Confucianism:

"Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23

"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3

"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

Ancient Egyptian:

"Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to circa 1800 BCE and may be the earliest version of the Epic of Reciprocity ever written. ₂

Hinduism:

This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Islam:

"None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 3

Jainism:

"Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.

"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara

"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Judaism:

"...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.

"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 4

Taoism:

"“Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.” Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien

"To those who are good to me, I am good; to those who are not good to me, I am also good. Thus all get to be good."

"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49.

Zoroastrianism:

"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing to another whatsoever is not good for itself." Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

"Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29

Native American Spirituality:

"Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.

"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk

"Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself. "Pima proverb.

Roman Pagan Religion:

"The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."

Shinto:

"The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form" Munetada Kurozumi

"Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga

Sikhism:

Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib

"Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259

"No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299

Sufism:

"The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.

Unitarian Universalism:

"The inherent worth and dignity of every person;"

"Justice, equity and compassion in human relations.... "

"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;"

"We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which

we are a part." Unitarian principles. 1,2

• Wicca:

"An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). This is called the Wiccan Rede

• Yoruba: (Nigeria):

"One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

It's an Oklahoma court interpreting the Oklahoma constitution. I assume there were some reasonable grounds for the decision.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

This makes as much sense to me as removing Confederate monuments and banning Confederate battle flags.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

It will be interesting to know how in 100 years from now how historians will record how in one generation the United States went from being the most powerful respected nation in the world to a country that turned away from a belief in right and wrong, became a society of self-indolence that worshipped materialism and chose leaders who did not believe in God and put themselves above all others.

 

But in the end everyone will have to take the fateful step into the unknown at the end of their life.

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

Doesn't the `1st Amendment state, "freedom OF religion" not freedom FROM religion??

And what happened to majority rule?

People should VOTE on it in a county or city election.

This country is a Republic, not a Democracy!!

If you don't know the difference look it up.