Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I have a Tacoma, I ignored the accelerator pedal recall "Temporary fix." I have a manual transmission, I can down shift. What's the problem? Well now there are 3 or 4 recalls and I am considering selling the Tacoma, 2009, 29000 miles, a few warts (dings). I will get it caught up on recalls before selling it. . But VW's recall. It will reduce the performance of the vehicle in the name of less air pollution. I do not own a VW, nor do I play a VW owner on TV, but I would delay going to the dealer until I was threatened with legal action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I wonder how many of the enviromental purist VW diesel car owners will immediately trade in their higher polluting cars to get distance from this scandal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 FARCEvergnugen!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 They are not the first to cheat. Ford and I believe it was Toyota were caught some years back. The most serious dilemma for Volkswagon will be a suitable fix. If they just "jumpered" the cheating circuit, the cars would have less power, lower fuel mileage and most likely have early component failures, since they were not designed to run daily under those parameters. They may be forced to buy back the cars, and at the least the class action will cost them dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 WV took down VW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Was listening to a program on the way to the match yesterday and if the program was factual, VW is only one in a very long line of manufacturers that have done this. Seems every over the road tractor manufacturer has been caught doing something similar along with most automobile manufacturers. Program also went on the say that the emissions programs in about 99% of all motor vehicles today are programmed to pass the test. Problem is that when in the real world drivers tend to accelerate hard to overcome the poor performance that is a result of the the test oriented programming. This makes the cars emit significantly more pollution that they would otherwise. The delta is way worse for all diesel powered vehicles than gasoline but the they both have issues. Another interesting point made was that VW emitting 10 to 25 PERCENT more pollution not 10 to 25 TIMES. Kinda a big difference. Friday at breakfast before work we decided that the reason the news media was making such a big deal was to manipulate VW stock so that someone could make a bundle. After hearing the above I am even more inclined to believe that stock manipulation is the real motive for all the sensationalized press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I've read a few articles about it. Seems, from those anyway, that the "fix was in" only when testing - it was ginned up to make them pass the test, then when the test rig was taken off, the electronics reverted to the fuel efficient mode. Never have figured out how reducing mileage (having to burn more fuel) is supposed to reduce over-all emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Watergate, defationgate, VWgate,,,,,seems to be the way of life anymore. I am sure the ex VW CEO will have a nice golden parachute. There has to be 1,000's of other VW employee's that knew about this long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Wagon Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 We currently have one of those evil VW jetta sportwagen TDI (diesel). I will be a bit upset if they screw it up as tight now on the freeway we get about 42-45 mpg and a little less in town. The big thing for us is that it actually pulls our RV with no problems at all at 70 mph! On the down side, when we do pull the RV , our milage drops to about 35 mpg..... ( I know, people driving trucks are not laughing or feeling any pity right now). We happen to live in a county that makes us take our vehicle in to pass an emissions test but I will wait till the very last second to take my car in and have it tweaked for the worse! For those wondering how a 4 cylinder diesel can pull an RV, we have a teardrop camper. I will get a picture of us on our way to Tusco next weekend as we may not be able to use it as well if the performance is changed too drastically (rumours about reduced horsepower). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 "I would delay going to the dealer until I was threatened with legal action." Can't you find a cliff to park it on, and forget to set the brake? Shouldn't take much to total it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Ve haf ways to make you vant to park your car and WALK! 60 Km ist a gud stretch of the legs. Schnell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I've read a few articles about it. Seems, from those anyway, that the "fix was in" only when testing - it was ginned up to make them pass the test, then when the test rig was taken off, the electronics reverted to the fuel efficient mode. Never have figured out how reducing mileage (having to burn more fuel) is supposed to reduce over-all emissions. When an engine runs lean it produces different emissions than when it runs rich. Optimising an engine for fuel economy alone tends to create more environmentally harmful compounds and reduces available horse power. Where as the most environmentally friendly settings reduce fuel economy as well as available horse power. The trick is to strike a balance where you get enough performance and fuel economy to sell your product but still meet ever higher emission standards. In the case of a Diesel the two biggest issues are particulates and Nitric Oxides. Both of these are responsible for smog. NOx is especially bad as it is what made the lung burning smog that LA was so famous for back in the 60s and 70s. Today, many cities in Europe currently have serious problems with smog and a large contributor is the significant number of small diesel engines in the cars. Diesel Engine Fluid (DEF) is required for many newer diesel engines in the US. The reason for DEF is to help break down NOx before it leaves the exaust. Some engines even have particulate filters in the exaust system to remove the particulates. Oddly enough, one of the biggest contributors to smog on the west coast are the ports. To make money in shipping reducing fuel costs is important so large cargo ships burn the cheapest fuel available. It is also the most harmful to the environment. To combat this the US requires all ships entering our territorial waters to use better fuel so ships have special tanks just for that purpose. Outside our waters they use the cheapest fuel available. Train locomotives and big trucks also contribute to the pollution as they haul good out of the ports. Because the prevailing winds blow from West to East that pollution emitted at sea is pushed onto our shores. The Sierra Nevadas and similar mountain ranges along the left coast trap this pollution. Agricultural engines are also big polluters. Mostly because the engines tend to remain in service for very long times (20 to 30 years is not uncommon) so newer less polluting designs are slow to make it onto the farms. Autos tend to not last more than 10 to 15 years so older more polluting models are replaced more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 In many states, if it's a emissions related recall and you don't have it done-You can't renew your registration till it's completed. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I wouldn't consider buying any VW product after 1974 gas crisis when VW tacked on a substantial surcharge on their diesel powered cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The Diesel Rabbit wasn't introduced 'til fall of '76.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What other (new) diesel cars are available in the United States? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Benz has been for decades. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Benz has been for decades. OLG I'm still driving my '83 240D... about 320K on the clock. Sassparilla still alternates between his '82 300D and his '74 240D. Or was... recently parked the '82 (311K), pending his addressing an oil leak. But it still runs strong! Dunno how many miles on the '74; it only has a 5-digit odometer.* *Bought the thing late one night about three years ago from a lawyer who was leaving town - literally! Gave the guy $1500 for it... Next day we discovered why he "dumped" it. Smoked like an ancient locomotive! Fella obviously thought the engine must be shot. Nope... the Kid replaced the vacuum pump diaphragm ($11) and a check valve or two (another $11) and she runs clean as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Any others? Cars that is.... New Benz are a bit pricey, or so I would guess. Jeep makes one,,,, but that is an SUV. Edit: add Audi & BMW to the diesel car list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I'm still driving my '83 240D... about 320K on the clock. Sassparilla still alternates between his '82 300D and his '74 240D. Or was... recently parked the '82 (311K), pending his addressing an oil leak. But it still runs strong! Dunno how many miles on the '74; it only has a 5-digit odometer.* *Bought the thing late one night about three years ago from a lawyer who was leaving town - literally! Gave the guy $1500 for it... Next day we discovered why he "dumped" it. Smoked like an ancient locomotive! Fella obviously thought the engine must be shot. Nope... the Kid replaced the vacuum pump diaphragm ($11) and a check valve or two (another $11) and she runs clean as ever. they wouldn't pass today's emissions. Are they grandfathered in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Any others? Cars that is.... New Benz are a bit pricey, or so I would guess. Jeep makes one,,,, but that is an SUV. Wish Subaru did Would buy one in a heart-beat They sell more diesel cars around the world than gas engine. Just can't make the EPA happy to sell'em here. We have 2 Subbys and love'em. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 they wouldn't pass today's emissions. Are they grandfathered in? No such thing in PRK. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The Diesel Rabbit wasn't introduced 'til fall of '76.... Read it again slowly, "after 1994". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I'm still driving my '83 240D... about 320K on the clock. Sassparilla still alternates between his '82 300D and his '74 240D. Or was... recently parked the '82 (311K), pending his addressing an oil leak. But it still runs strong! Dunno how many miles on the '74; it only has a 5-digit odometer.* *Bought the thing late one night about three years ago from a lawyer who was leaving town - literally! Gave the guy $1500 for it... Next day we discovered why he "dumped" it. Smoked like an ancient locomotive! Fella obviously thought the engine must be shot. Nope... the Kid replaced the vacuum pump diaphragm ($11) and a check valve or two (another $11) and she runs clean as ever. Your '74 is now exempt from SMOG. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I've got a 2013 GMC Denali 3500 diesel dually. It has the particulate filter and the DEF fluid. Truck runs and pulls great and when empty will get between 19-21MPG on the highway. Has not even a whiff of diesel fumes about it, they have snuffed it all out. I wonder how much more power and how much better fuel mileage it would get without all that. When it goes into "regen" mode to clean the particulate filter, road mileage will drop to about 13MPG. My neighbor is warranty manager at the local Peterbilt dealership and he says they have had a bunch of DEF issues, especially with contamination. He says NEVER buy it at the truck stop pumps, they have had so much trouble they buy it in the 2 1/2 gallon boxes just like I do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I wouldn't consider buying any VW product after 1974 gas crisis when VW tacked on a substantial surcharge on their diesel powered cars. The Diesel Rabbit wasn't introduced 'til fall of '76.... Read it again slowly, "after 1994". Okay. I read it again, slowly... it still sez "1974." Oh, I remember that "crisis" very well. I was doing deliveries for a banking company... and everyone just hated waiting in line to fill up the company delivery van. 'Cept me... I always volunteered. And stopped by my car to collect a couple gas cans en route to the filling station. I also discovered that there were NO lines in the small towns I'd visit on weekends... and everyone was watching the news reports from SF and LA in amazement. Oh... and I also learned the hard way - garden hose just ain't the best for siphoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I'm still driving my '83 240D... about 320K on the clock. Sassparilla still alternates between his '82 300D and his '74 240D. Or was... recently parked the '82 (311K), pending his addressing an oil leak. But it still runs strong! Your '74 is now exempt from SMOG. OLG All three of 'em are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Okay. I read it again, slowly... it still sez "1974." Oh, I remember that "crisis" very well. I was doing deliveries for a banking company... and everyone just hated waiting in line to fill up the company delivery van. 'Cept me... I always volunteered. And stopped by my car to collect a couple gas cans en route to the filling station. I also discovered that there were NO lines in the small towns I'd visit on weekends... and everyone was watching the news reports from SF and LA in amazement. Oh... and I also learned the hard way - garden hose just ain't the best for siphoning. Hardpan What happened was in '74 I was driving a Chevelle supersport with a 396 big block. Whn I decided to get another car, don't remember the exact year, I decided to look at a VW diesel. The salesman told me there as a 15 % adder to the sticker price because of demand. I told him ------- -----[better not say or I be thrown off the forum] Got Buick Opel no power anything + no air, no radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Kadett or GT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Diesel Particulate Matter, PM, is not a precursor of smog. Smog producing compounds are NO & NO2 (NOX), CO & Precursor Organic Compounds. Diesel PM is classified as a toxic to humans and is regulated at very low levels, For stationary sources it's approx. 1/2 lb/yr vs. 25 lb/day for NOX In CA. For spark ignited internal combustion engines it is cheap & easy to clean up the exhaust with a 3-way catalyst and other than capital cost the only disadvantage is fuel economy. With the most efficient air/fuel mixture the exhaust contains 2-4% O2. However for the catalyst to be 3-way the O2 must be between 0.3-0.5%. At 1.0% O2 the catalyst NOX conversion efficiency is ZERO. Tuning the engine for 0.5% O2 results in a 5% fuel penalty. A diesel engine can't survive under load when tuned rich so except in some on-highway light duty applications (VW Jetta, Smart Cars, etc.) cheap catalyst technologies can't be used. Turbocharging, aftercooling, cooled EGR, continuously variable injection timing, variable high injection pressure and multi event injection will only get you so far in meeting emissions limits. To meet the limits requires either an SCR or NOX absorber catalyst. The NOX absorber is what the VW 2.0TDI uses. Like a sponge the NOX absorber catalyst will only hold so much NOX; therefore, it requires periodic regeneration. Regeneration requires running rich. If the EPA light duty vehicle test cycle included running for 1 hour at Autobahn speeds of 100+ mph the 2.0TDI would melt pistons and burn valves when absorber is regenerated or you'd get run over by the trucks in the right lane. The larger 3.0TDI uses both a NOX aborber and SCR catalyst. The MB & BMW turbo diesels use an SCR catalyst. For an SCR catalyst to reduce NOX requires ammonia for the reduction reaction that converts NOX to N2. The source of the ammonia is high purity urea sold as DEF in North America & Add Blue in Europe. Any impurities will destroy the catalyst. Typically auto mfg's select urea storage capacity so the refill interval is the same as that for the engine. This means that refilling will be performed by a qualified technician. Short Wagon, Find a class action law firm; so, you are a named plaintiff on the lawsuit before it's upgraded to a class action. Only the original plaintiffs and the lawyers make out in a class action. Like the owners of the POS GM diesels based on the mouse motor who got vouchers for a $2,500 discount on another 1980's POS GM vehicle. A spark ignited engine converted to diesel won't live; however, the reverse produces a very robust engine. P.S. don't tow that trailer after "VW fixes" it. The best thing for owners of the 2.0TDI is for VW to repurchase the vehicles or take them in trade for a 2017 model with the MORE EXPENSIVE improved 2.0TDI engine that uses the same aftertreatment as the 3.0TDI engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancocas Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Kadett or GT? Think it was a Opel Manta -- kind of an orange mustard color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Chevrolet makes the Cruze sedan with a turbo diesel. They claim 46 mpg. http://www.chevrolet.com/diesel-vehicles.html Any others? Cars that is.... New Benz are a bit pricey, or so I would guess. Jeep makes one,,,, but that is an SUV. Edit: add Audi & BMW to the diesel car list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 All three of 'em are. Do you live in a no SMOG county? Or did you 'NON-OP' them? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Lumpy, "gassers" of 1975 vintage and older are exempt; smog checks are required for Diesels of 1998 or newer vintage. Our "oldies" are exempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Lumpy, "gassers" of 1975 vintage and older are exempt; smog checks are required for Diesels of 1998 or newer vintage. Our "oldies" are exempt. Yup-me was think'n gassers even with the talk of oil-burners- Need more coffee, so I can think( ) clearly- OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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