Start with shotgun in any safe position?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

So can I load my double every time we start in hands or port arms unless stage writer specifies differently?

 

NO...that is NOT what that means.

What it allows is for the stage instructions to specify that the shotgun MAY be loaded (action open or closed).

Rounds chambered is NOT a "default" condition for whenever the SG starts "in hand(s)"

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

I write open ended features into my stages all the time...and I don't consider my stage instructions poor at all. Others may disagree...who knows as no one has ever said anything to me.

 

What can be more "Fair" then letting a shooter use their imagination and build a plan of attack to a stage that bests suits them? In this case we are talking about a starting position (which sounds like nothing more then the common start "with shotgun in hand"), which is clear to me.

 

Too me, the worse type of stages are those that try and control every aspect of the stage...like...sheep...baaaah!

 

Phantom

I write open ended features into my stages all the time...and I don't consider my stage instructions poor at all. Others may disagree...who knows as no one has ever said anything to me.

 

What can be more "Fair" then letting a shooter use their imagination and build a plan of attack to a stage that bests suits them? In this case we are talking about a starting position (which sounds like nothing more then the common start "with shotgun in hand"), which is clear to me.

 

Too me, the worse type of stages are those that try and control every aspect of the stage...like...sheep...baaaah!

 

Phantom

...Yep totally agree Phantom, half the fun is coming up with ya' own plan of attack & watching others doing it their way..watched a shooter once in a posse of 20 who shot the stage differently ..fingers went up everywhere..absolutely nothing wrong with his method, just that others didn't look outside the circle..I love stagewriters with variety in there descriptions, multiple choice & simplistic wording...yeah I suppose there are occasions that warrant 'tight' stage descriptions but giving the shooter the reins is fun' !

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I like choice and freedom in planning out shooting a stage!!!! corse us gunfighters are a different breed and attack a stage a mite differntly at times....

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

 

NO...that is NOT what that means.

What it allows is for the stage instructions to specify that the shotgun MAY be loaded (action open or closed).

Rounds chambered is NOT a "default" condition for whenever the SG starts "in hand(s)"

Thanks that's what I was looking for.

[Blastmaster]

Actually, it ONLY means that you start with your SG.

 

Position becomes irrelevant when worded as you stated.

 

UNLESSSSSSS, someone has changed the definition of 'ANY' since Friday...

 

This is just my opinion.

 

 

..........Wi

Doesn't mean you start with SG, unless stage description says SG targets are engaged first. We all have been starting and will continue to stage our SG pointed in a safe direction. Well, most of the time.

 

Hmmm, a new starting positon,,,, both hands on a particular LG, at BEEP engage the targets of another type of firearm (pistols, other LG). Which means you have to discard the LG in your hands before commence firing.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Doesn't mean you start with SG, unless stage description says SG targets are engaged first. We all have been starting and will continue to stage our SG pointed in a safe direction. Well, most of the time.

 

Hmmm, a new starting positon,,,, both hands on a particular LG, at BEEP engage the targets of another type of firearm (pistols, other LG). Which means you have to discard the LG in your hands before commence firing.

since when do you have to discard a LG before firing another type firearm?

[Blastmaster]

since when do you have to discard a LG before firing another type firearm!

Most people do,,, discard a firearm before using the next. You are correct, you don't 'have' to discard the LG, but it would seem to me that it would work better for the shooter. Shooters choice. I'll hold your beer.

 

And still another starting position. holding LG in both hands, at beep, shoot another gun.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Stage begins with, "Starts with Shotgun in any Safe Position" In the last two weekends I have shot a

match in two states Maryland and Ohio, both had a stage that started with this line. Both had very

different descriptions of what this means. What does it mean in your state, or club?

 

 

Actually, it ONLY means that you start with your SG.

 

Position becomes irrelevant when worded as you stated.

 

UNLESSSSSSS, someone has changed the definition of 'ANY' since Friday...

 

This is just my opinion.

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

Doesn't mean you start with SG, unless stage description says SG targets are engaged first. We all have been starting and will continue to stage our SG pointed in a safe direction. Well, most of the time.

 

Hmmm, a new starting positon,,,, both hands on a particular LG, at BEEP engage the targets of another type of firearm (pistols, other LG). Which means you have to discard the LG in your hands before commence firing.

 

Blastmaster,

 

I was only responding to the original thread. He stated that his instruction was "Starts with shotgun in any safe position". And he then ask the question what does that mean in our state or club.

 

I replied that it only means that we start with the SG.

 

Did I miss something about 'starting with the SG'.

 

What else does it mean?

 

..........Widder

[Blastmaster]

Blastmaster,

 

I was only responding to the original thread. He stated that his instruction was "Starts with shotgun in any safe position". And he then ask the question what does that mean in our state or club.

 

I replied that it only means that we start with the SG.

 

Did I miss something about 'starting with the SG'.

 

What else does it mean?

 

..........Widder

I took it that shooter could stage his SG here,there,flat, vertical, in hand(s), on shoulder, across the plywood horses back or in the cradle(s),,,,shooters choice. Ya really need to hear the rest of the story to decide. That is how I took it.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

 

thanks

 

 

..........Widder

[Most Wanted]

Blastmaster

Shooter starts at pos 1

Shooter starts holding pie

Shooter starts in doorway.

The word Starts means this is the condition when the timer goes beep.

Not to be confused with , pistols holstered with five rounds each hammer down on empty chamber. Rifle staged on table. SG staged on hay bale. These are the conditions of fire arms when the stage begins but start is only used once in a stage description if written properly and I can say I've never seen it misused. Start is a simple instruction that Does not need interpretation.

[Noz]

Pie?

[Yusta B.]

Pie?

3.14159 -ish

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Pie?

 

 

3.14159 -ish

 

last time I had pie it was round..... not square.

 

 

..........Widder

[Blastmaster]

Black Berry Pie is my favorite,,,, to hold and to eat.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Ala Mode... and by the grace of heaven the Universe, our Maker, Creator and the Almighty by GAAAAAAWWWWWWDDDDDD... BLUE BELL is open again! YEEEE HAAAAAW!

[Blastmaster]

With a glass of cold, whole milk to wash it down.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Are we whipping the dog? I will spank it again. Stage instructions are any safe position, so it does not say if you start loaded or not so you have to ask.

I have to watch my sugar so pass on the pie.

+1 on Phantom. Its interesting to see how people shoot a stage and how it differs and how people prepare prior to execute.

Okay, how about lemon meringue?

[Korupt Karl]

Are we whipping the dog? I will spank it again. Stage instructions are any safe position, so it does not say if you start loaded or not so you have to ask.

I have to watch my sugar so pass on the pie.

+1 on Phantom. Its interesting to see how people shoot a stage and how it differs and how people prepare prior to execute.

Okay, how about lemon meringue?

I've only played this game for a short while, but in my mind stage description would mention starting with gun loaded....with TO to give permission when to load. I have never staged a shotgun loaded. Staged or in safe position would mean just that. It would not mean to have shells in hand or touching shells.... Simply means in a safe position..whether in hand or hands, staged on prop, at port arms, on shoulder aimed at target or however else one would want to hold it "in a safe manner".

 

Safe manner would not include "loaded"

 

KK

[Guest Cinch, SASS#29433]

Ever been to a sheep dog trial? Or out on the range? There is always a few who just don't go along with the flock. I think that's exactly what he was inferring

 

Blastmaster I am just deranged enuff to know what you were talking about. I think I will start a stage with the shotgun open empty then have the shooter move to the bale, stage shotgun, shoot rifle, revolvers, and finally shotgun.

 

As far as the OP around here in hand means most folks are aiming their rifle at the 1st target

[Blastmaster]

Ever been to a sheep dog trial? Or out on the range? There is always a few who just don't go along with the flock. I think that's exactly what he was inferring

 

Blastmaster I am just deranged enuff to know what you were talking about. I think I will start a stage with the shotgun open empty then have the shooter move to the bale, stage shotgun, shoot rifle, revolvers, and finally shotgun.

 

thanks Cinch. Exactly the thought I was trying to convey.

 

As far as the OP around here in hand means most folks are aiming their rifle at the 1st target.

A few pards and I have discussed the various ways of running an open ended stage. consisting of pistols, SG and rifle, with rifle not being shot last. We have basically come to the conclusion, there is usually only one way that is the most efficient and fastest way,,, given where the guns are staged, where the hands are at the Beep , target placement and so forth. Even if you are a leftie shooting in a rightie world or visa-versa.

[Most Wanted]

A few pards and I have discussed the various ways of running an open ended stage. consisting of pistols, SG and rifle, with rifle not being shot last. We have basically come to the conclusion, there is usually only one way that is the most efficient and fastest way,,, given where the guns are staged, where the hands are at the Beep , target placement and so forth. Even if you are a leftie shooting in a rightie world or visa-versa.

I have to disagree. Heck what type of rig, type of shot gun and which hand you load with , what's your strong hand left or right , what gun you like to start and finish with all play into it and much more. Are there some stages that everyone will shoot the same way? Maybe. But often times not. The only two differences between my son and I are A: he is much better than me and B: he shoots a 97 and I shoot a SxS. We shoot some stages the same but not all. If people aren't making adjustments to open ended stages they ain't thinking enough about it and that may work out just fine for them but I love choices.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

I have to disagree. Heck what type of rig, type of shot gun and which hand you load with , what's your strong hand left or right , what gun you like to start and finish with all play into it and much more. Are there some stages that everyone will shoot the same way? Maybe. But often times not. The only two differences between my son and I are A: he is much better than me and B: he shoots a 97 and I shoot a SxS. We shoot some stages the same but not all. If people aren't making adjustments to open ended stages they ain't thinking enough about it and that may work out just fine for them but I love choices.

Exactly.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Exactly.

or if they are a GF, D or Trad!

[Korupt Karl]

It is fun to watch....if a top shooter shoots a stage a particular way then others duplicate regardless of what their category is or SG, etc. I agree with Most Wanted.

 

To write a stage with options it is interesting to sit back and watch some of the creative ways that shooters engage the stage.....and often I think "Damn I didn't think of that".....

 

KK

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Each year at Guns Of August, a handful and more of us GF'ers posse up with Lassiter.

 

Anyhow, we had a stage which allowed the shooter to have some creativity in the manner of engaging the targets.

 

Just within the GF category, I recall about 4 or 5 different ways the GFer's shot that stage. And a couple of those ways didn't even cross my mind.

 

 

If you give options on some stages, there are a few who will be creative and 'Go For The Gusto'.

 

 

..........Widder

[Most Wanted]

Each year at Guns Of August, a handful and more of us GF'ers posse up with Lassiter.

 

Anyhow, we had a stage which allowed the shooter to have some creativity in the manner of engaging the targets.

 

Just within the GF category, I recall about 4 or 5 different ways the GFer's shot that stage. And a couple of those ways didn't even cross my mind.

 

 

If you give options on some stages, there are a few who will be creative and 'Go For The Gusto'.

 

 

..........Widder

We shot GOA two years ago and to this day that was the most optioned match we've shot. To the point where the loading table took noticeably longer to get full. People were taking their time trying to make sure they had the right game plan. One of the funniest shoots I've been to and can't wait for this years.

[Blastmaster]

Can not get any more open than...

 

Stage guns any where.

 

Start from any where.

 

hands can be any where.

 

Shoot guns in any order, at any location

 

Must use (shoot from) (x) different shooting positions

 

Rifle can not be last.

 

Each firearm must engage that firearms targets in prescribed sweep..... or each target must be hit at least once.

 

Still, there is usually one fastest way.

 

Now, if there is a reload at anytime. there can be variance of when to do the reload.

 

I've shot stages like this and thus, the bases of my previous post.

[Most Wanted]

Can not get any more open than...

 

Stage guns any where.

 

Start from any where.

 

hands can be any where.

 

Shoot guns in any order, at any location

 

Must use (shoot from) (x) different shooting positions

 

Rifle can not be last.

 

Each firearm must engage that firearms targets in prescribed sweep..... or each target must be hit at least once.

 

Still, there is usually one fastest way.

 

Now, if there is a reload at anytime. there can be variance of when to do the reload.

 

I've shot stages like this and thus, the bases of my previous post.

There is one Best way for Each shooter to engage the stage. And that Will vary. If you think your way is the best way for all shooters you haven't studied the game much. And that's ok with me.

[Guest Cinch, SASS#29433]

There is one Best way for Each shooter to engage the stage. And that Will vary. If you think your way is the best way for all shooters you haven't studied the game much. And that's ok with me.

There are category differences and some differences in what one is born with. But there are not endless possibilities to shoot a stage. Stage instructions, gun placement, and distance traveled all end up essentially the same. If a stage is written make safe, a shooter can re-stage where they shot from or take it to the next position if possible. While traveling to the next position the shooter could draw there revolver or not and I don't consider that a way to shoot a stage. Certain transitional things aren't a way to shoot but an efficiency method or more coordinated skill.

 

The "way" a stage is shot is based on the description. If there is a choice of starting point, target order, order of guns, and some instruction as to where to shoot from there may be 5-6 ways to shoot the stage. One way will almost always be the most efficient...

 

The well practiced crowd won't wanna break up their revolvers on such a stage and this goes to efficiency for the stage. Shotgun choices are not "ways" to shoot a stage but rather equipment choices made some time back and then an efficient way to use that equipment is developed along the way.

 

I do not consider fumbling a re-holster, staging ones long gun a little closer to the edge of the table or stepping with the right foot 1st as a "way" to shoot a stage. Good Luck with all of those other ways

[Most Wanted]

For me shooting a stage is Everything that's on the clock. But that's JMHO.

[J-BAR #18287]

One drawback to options is that it can make the spotter's job a lot harder, because he doesn't know where to watch and when. There are still some ranges that don't have targets at arms reach!!

 

On the whole though, I like stages that give the shooter room for creativity.

[Griff]

Interesting topic and discussion. Options are always good. And if instructions can be interpreted as "open-ended", and one doesn't ASK how open-ended they are intended, one is limiting themself from their possible best performance.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

There is one Best way for Each shooter to engage the stage. And that Will vary. If you think your way is the best way for all shooters you haven't studied the game much. And that's ok with me.

I don't know how much more obvious this statement can be, seeing how we are not robots. At almost every shoot I've ever been to, I'm the only gunfighter on the posse. So while I get good ideas from watching others shoot open ended stages, their way won't always work for me. And while it might be advantageous for gunfighters to end on pistols since they save time holstering, I usually prefer to start with pistols so that I'm more focused to begin the stage. I have a tendency to speed up as the stage gets going to the point of getting sloppy with my aim, so the difference for me could be 4-5 misses for shooting pistols last, while saving at most 1 second by not having to reholster. Better shooters will make something happen with that extra second.

[Blastmaster]

I don't know how much more obvious this statement can be, seeing how we are not robots. At almost every shoot I've ever been to, I'm the only gunfighter on the posse. So while I get good ideas from watching others shoot open ended stages, their way won't always work for me. And while it might be advantageous for gunfighters to end on pistols since they save time holstering, I usually prefer to start with pistols so that I'm more focused to begin the stage. I have a tendency to speed up as the stage gets going to the point of getting sloppy with my aim, so the difference for me could be 4-5 misses for shooting pistols last, while saving at most 1 second by not having to reholster. Better shooters will make something happen with that extra second.

Three shooting position stage.

Can start anywhere. Rifle not last.

Pistols shot from center position, rifle from left.

Go ahead and start with pistols.