Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I tend to agree somewhat with what UB said.. But in my humble opinion any citizen thats more afraid of the police, regardless of what they are wearing, has probably got a guilty conscience. Tascosa Bull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 My SIL is an LEO, that runs a high risk warrant/dangerous felon apprehension team inside the LASD. He wears the armor and carries a M-4. I also want him to come home to my daughter and my 2 grand kids each night These are 'tools of the job'. Amazing how people know what's 'rite' when they have never made a forced entry serving a warrant, or responded to a 911 call and all that's heard is screaming in the background. I say-Do a 'ride-along' with an LEO if you can. Your eyes will be opened to the real world we ALL live in today. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Jack Hammer Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Walk a mile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Back in my day's it was illegal for a officer to carry anything but his 38 with 158gr lead bullets and the Remington 12ga. Now, what I had picked up after roll call and put into the trunk the Sgt. did not want to know about other than he personally hoped you did. The area I was in had the highest murder rate in the city. At this one particular time two guys were running around raping women that were over 70 years of age. Myself and another officer were called to an unknown incident. As we parked our cars and started to walk up to the apartment, you guessed it, pop, pop, pop. Took cover started shooting our 38's at the 5th floor up in the air at a range of 150 yards. Dust hits all around us and I am certain those 38's were much useless. I looked up towards heaven and thought, "HELP" and took off running for my car. Got the 30-30 out of the trunk, took aim and started firing. After putting 10 into the building all shooting stopped. We finally got up to the room and found the two old gals fairly well shook up. They told us after those bullets started coming through the wall leaving very large holes and then going through the ceiling, those two guys decided to leave. What I am getting at is that it would have been nice to be properly armed in the area we were in. Now this type of armament may not be needed in all areas of calls. But, sure would be nice in some areas that it is really needed. Not much fun being out-gunned and you are the good guys. Nope, not much fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 My SIL is an LEO, that runs a high risk warrant/dangerous felon apprehension team inside the LASD. He wears the armor and carries a M-4. I also want him to come home to my daughter and my 2 grand kids each night These are 'tools of the job'. Amazing how people know what's 'rite' when they have never made a forced entry serving a warrant, or responded to a 911 call and all that's heard is screaming in the background. I say-Do a 'ride-along' with an LEO if you can. Your eyes will be opened to the real world we ALL live in today. LG Walk a mile.... I don't believe anyone here would assert that the use of appropriate body armor by law enforcement shouldn't happen. To do so would be asinine. However, to extrapolate from what has been written above that law enforcement isn't supported is rather illogical as well. As I've said, I have friends in the field, and I want them safe. That doesn't mean I am in favor of law enforcement to have carte blanche to act as they please, to run roughshod over the populace or to look down upon those they are hired to "serve and protect." Yes, the vast majority of officers go through their days doing the right thing, but more and more we have incidents that appear to be the result of over-zealousness on someone's part, and a willingness to adopt an aggressive mindset instead of common sense. I'm not sure where the blame is. I have my opinions, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 That's why officers have dash-cams and vest cams these dayz. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Ornery Oaf- your alias says it all. Probably one of these rocket scientists who think the police are so good and wonderful, til THEY have their "close encounter" with them and find out what's really going on. Tascosa- my feelings are based on 3 incidents I had with the police, news stories from here in Houston, national news, and 2 nights I spent watching videos on You tube(never even knew what that was til recently). Never been so outraged, so I haven't watched them since.(Bad for my blood pressure) Maybe 95% of the police are good and honest, but that 5% make them all look bad. They're the ones who make the news(and DON'T make it often enough). Oh, and yes I shoot with plenty of LEOs, current and former, but they're not in uniform and abusing my rights. They're just another shooter on the range. On that basis we get along fine. One of my oldest friends in this game is ex-HPD. He opened my eyes on a thing or 2. Not all of them out there are Utah Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Change the word "police" to "BATFE agent." Or "IRS agent" Would you be saying the same thing? Sub Deacon, I was refering to local police, or sheriffs deputys, NOT BATFE or IRS!. And to answer your question concerning BATFE, and the IRS, no I would not be saying the same thing! Tascosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Ornery Oaf- your alias says it all. Probably one of these rocket scientists who think the police are so good and wonderful, til THEY have their "close encounter" with them and find out what's really going on. Tascosa- my feelings are based on 3 incidents I had with the police, news stories from here in Houston, national news, and 2 nights I spent watching videos on You tube(never even knew what that was til recently). Never been so outraged, so I haven't watched them since.(Bad for my blood pressure) Maybe 95% of the police are good and honest, but that 5% make them all look bad. They're the ones who make the news(and DON'T make it often enough). Oh, and yes I shoot with plenty of LEOs, current and former, but they're not in uniform and abusing my rights. They're just another shooter on the range. On that basis we get along fine. One of my oldest friends in this game is ex-HPD. He opened my eyes on a thing or 2. Not all of them out there are Utah Bob. Or me??? Ive ALWAYS treated the person I had reason to contact the way I would want to be treated if the situation was reversed. Being able to take someone's freedom away is an awesome responsibility and Ive tried to use it wisely and with discretion as do most officers. Tascosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Another circular thread that will change no one's mind and only end up aggravating folks on both sides of the issue. Some of us don't really even know wht the issue is I expect. It would be nice to be able to have one of these threads proceed without emotions exploding and insults flying. But that won't happen I guess. That's why I no longer participate to any great extent in threads that have police conduct and procedures at their core. I will only say that if you believe that 5% of officers make us all look bad then you must apply the same logic must to the 5% of bad gun owners. And I think that's wrong too. And now I shall take my leave for the evening and spend my time on things perhaps notany more productive, but more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 This thread brings to mind the question of how far is this country from being a police state. What with "lawful orders", seize-applyforwarrant-searches, noknockwarrants it is hard to see that we are not on the edge. But then I read the "headline" on Yahoo that says "Mass Police Chiefs Demand more power to disarm citizens". http://www.examiner.com/article/massachusetts-police-chiefs-demand-more-power-to-disarm-citizenry Is this a reliable source ? I don't know ... But I would bet that chiefs in MA want the power. it is hard not to conclude that we are way closer than we should be. is a SWAT team necessary to bust a drug meth lab - yep. Does a SWAT team need to be perfect on addresses - yes. Should cops pay the price when they make a mistake - the highest price possible. Do I think many cops are good and lawful - yes. Do I think some are power mongers - yes. Are we a police state yet - not quite. But we are getting close. We must be on our guard against cops gaining too much power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Sub Deacon, I was refering to local police, or sheriffs deputys, NOT BATFE or IRS!. And to answer your question concerning BATFE, and the IRS, no I would not be saying the same thing! Tascosa Oh? They are all equally law enforcement. All are equally agents of the State. We might see the local police, and the deputies, and Highway Patrol more often, but getting down to brass tacks, all have the same job. I find it interesting that I see that so often, almost a disowning of federal law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 This thread brings to mind the question of how far is this country from being a police state. What with "lawful orders", seize-applyforwarrant-searches, noknockwarrants it is hard to see that we are not on the edge. But then I read the "headline" on Yahoo that says "Mass Police Chiefs Demand more power to disarm citizens". http://www.examiner.com/article/massachusetts-police-chiefs-demand-more-power-to-disarm-citizenry Is this a reliable source ? I don't know ... But I would bet that chiefs in MA want the power. it is hard not to conclude that we are way closer than we should be. is a SWAT team necessary to bust a drug meth lab - yep. Does a SWAT team need to be perfect on addresses - yes. Should cops pay the price when they make a mistake - the highest price possible. Do I think many cops are good and lawful - yes. Do I think some are power mongers - yes. Are we a police state yet - not quite. But we are getting close. We must be on our guard against cops gaining too much power. You mean this? http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/7/boston-police-commissioner-i-say-who-needs-a-gun!.aspx http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/24/police-chiefs-gun-rights-advocates-at-odds-over-discretion-in-massachusetts/ But..... Those are chiefs/commissioners, not REAL cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I find myself under-informed and read these threads with interest. I have nothing to contribute. But, it's engrossing, listening to input and opinions from many different points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I find myself under-informed and read these threads with interest. I have nothing to contribute. But, it's engrossing, listening to input and opinions from many different points of view. Just remember if I read a few pages in a, "How to perform brain surgery" book, you probably would not want me to perform brain surgery on your child. Same theory applies here. They just having fun with the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Quite a few prior and current LEO commenting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Oh? They are all equally law enforcement. All are equally agents of the State. We might see the local police, and the deputies, and Highway Patrol more often, but getting down to brass tacks, all have the same job. I find it interesting that I see that so often, almost a disowning of federal law enforcement. Sadly, I think there is almost an expectation that the federal law enforcement agencies are not on "our side," regardless of the truth of the matter. On the other hand, there is an expectation that local law enforcement is, due to the local connection, and frustration and disappointment when we see them acting out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORNERY OAF Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Ornery Oaf- your alias says it all. Probably one of these rocket scientists who think the police are so good and wonderful, til THEY have their "close encounter" with them and find out what's really going on. Tascosa- my feelings are based on 3 incidents I had with the police, news stories from here in Houston, national news, and 2 nights I spent watching videos on You tube(never even knew what that was til recently). Never been so outraged, so I haven't watched them since.(Bad for my blood pressure) Maybe 95% of the police are good and honest, but that 5% make them all look bad. They're the ones who make the news(and DON'T make it often enough). Oh, and yes I shoot with plenty of LEOs, current and former, but they're not in uniform and abusing my rights. They're just another shooter on the range. On that basis we get along fine. One of my oldest friends in this game is ex-HPD. He opened my eyes on a thing or 2. Not all of them out there are Utah Bob. Tell, as far as being a rocket science, well my friend, I've never been accused of that!..And as far as close encounters with the police, I actually see the other end being one of these darn cops for the last 20 years of my life in a city who ranks in the top 20 every years for most violent. My problem with your statement is because they hit so close to home. I work in the projects a lot and we hear constantly from the parents talking to their kids "you see them, thats the police, if you keep being bad im gonna make them take you awat to jail" telling 4-8y/o children this does nothin but breed contemp and another generation that distrusts the police. Many, and I mean MANY treat people like people...That's the whole job, just treat people fairly. Young cops in busy cities learn fast that talking is the best way to solve or nip a situation in the bud, if you go around like billy bad ass, your gonna have a long hard career, or a VERY short one. We hear about the bad cops on CNN/MSNBC or what ever as soon as they do something wrong, and I am the first one to say bang them out hard!! they give the rest of us a blackeye and make the job harder. Perception means alot. But what the public sees is the bad, when is the last time the news went crazy over a cop doing a really good job? Not very often, its not news worthy. The one bad incident you see over shadows the MILLIONS of calls and interactions departments take everyday. Imagine how many cops take calls everyday in every city..a lot. and the photos shown of the huge body armor and swat gear is just that, special team gear or response to a direct bad act(ie:active shooter or swat incident)..But as far as officer armor goes..We have seen shootouts with bad guys where one side has an AK and the other side has an FN FAL...the days of the saturday night special are over my friend..These days bad guys prefer their choppers(ak style) and glocks and sigs..One told me he hates Hi points cause they always jam..And I have done No-Knock warrrants, they are very scrutinized by all involved including the prosecutors and judges, as they well should be..If they are not, then the department needs to re-evaluate their policies..If I hit the wrong house, as the case detective, I need to be held responsible..period..Just give us some slack Tell, there are tons of good ones out there actually trying to help and make a difference..I know a few moron gun owners that make us all look bad, I dont judge all gun owners because of them( cause I be one;))..Thanks and sorry for the lonnnggg post. OO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 May be a "lonnnggg post," Ornery, but it's a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Bull! Be nice forty rod +1 what Doc Ward said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Sadly, I think there is almost an expectation that the federal law enforcement agencies are not on "our side," regardless of the truth of the matter. On the other hand, there is an expectation that local law enforcement is, due to the local connection, and frustration and disappointment when we see them acting out of bounds. The feds are far more likely to be under the orders of the current moron in washington dc. Rather than local cops that realize they have to live with the results of their actions locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 You mean this? http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/7/boston-police-commissioner-i-say-who-needs-a-gun!.aspx http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/24/police-chiefs-gun-rights-advocates-at-odds-over-discretion-in-massachusetts/ But..... Those are chiefs/commissioners, not REAL cops. Those two links and the one in my post show that the types in MA have a problem with the 2nd Amendment. I believe that chiefs and commissioners are all part of the same cop mentality. Although commissioners would likely tend towards the political. And I would bet that most chiefs used to be beat walkers and rose up through the ranks. I would also bet that some commissioners used to be cops as well. Out here in CO the local county Sherriff is an elected official. But I think he has to have passed some LEO tests somewhere along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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