Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I have been casting bullets for some time now and never paid much attention to the weight factor before but I have been noticing lately that one group of bullets weigh in at 130 grains +/- 2 and the other group weigh in at 125 grains +/- 2. is that enough of a difference to make my shooting less accurate or is it that the type of shooting we do really won't be effected that much? I am using a Lee mold for the bullets, 125 gr LRNFP 6 block mold. I have noticed that the one bullet slot is such that when I run it through my Lube a matic that it squzees out my crimp ring and I have to toss that one back to the remold pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captqueeze Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Couple of things come to mind, but first let me be clear on what you are saying. You are using a "multi" cavity bullet mold. Closely check to make sure there isn't any obstruction on the mold faces. Any excess Lead or slag will cause a increase in bullet size. Second, are you using the same consistant ingots of Lead for your Alloy? If not that likely accounts for the difference in weight. Also, and very important make sure you have a tight grip on the mold handles with each pour. As far as affecting the "accuracy" in our type of shooting, not to likely. What I would be most concerned with (if they were full loads and not cowboy loads) would be over pressure conditions. However, I don't think that is much of a concern with reduced load ammo. I'm not an expert so study the situation thoroughly, separate the 125's from the 130's and load one or the other for consistency, provided you haven't found the cause of the difference in weight. Capt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Sounds like your mold might be dropping different sizes from different cavities. Are you sorting the output from one casting session and getting those two different weights? One of the best tools we have available is calipers. They would give you exact values for what you're seeing happen with your sizing. Basically, the sizing result is a visual display of what happens with different diameter slugs. If your 6-cavity mold doesn't close completely at one end, it's output will vary in diameters from one end to the other. There is a trick casters use to get "bigger" bullets out of a mold that keeps the mold from closing completely. Sounds like you're experiencing something like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If the difference in weights isn't from different alloys from different casting sessions, and isn't from a mold closing problem, then the lighter bullets probably have voids inside them. That can screw up accuracy depending on how far off center the void is in each bullet. For really long range shooting, different weights give different velocities etc. Any lack of uniformity matters. For SASS shooting, the difference you're seeing won't cost you a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 No, it won't have any effect on the shooting we do. Is your under sized bullet coming from the 6th (last) hole?? If yes, run yer lead hotter and make sure you have a good flow in the 6th cavity, it will be the coolest of the bunch. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 My lead has gone through a lot of precision and calculations so the I have developed a lead that is running about 18 to 19 on the BHNN scale. I have noticed that the 6th hole seems to be the one that causes me the most problems so I have started to pour only the first 5. Hopefully that will stop the problem on the over sized bullet. There are no voids as I pour the lead in very quickly to avoid any setting up of lead before all is poured. I think it is time to get a new mold made out of steel from RCBS or Lyman, a mold with better manufacturing tollerances.. Thanks for input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Go to http://www.accuratemolds.com/ for better quality aluminum moulds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I love my RCBS steel molds, but I love my aluminum and brass Accurate molds even more. Certified member of the can't-use-Lee-molds club. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Logan Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 That raises a question. Are there preferences or problems with using steel or aluminum molds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 That raises a question. Are there preferences or problems with using steel or aluminum molds? Some folks like one mold, some folks like another. I find I can cast real well with ALMOST any mold, except Lees. Have tried them many times over the last 40 years, and finally swore off using them. Steel molds are the toughest. You will find that automated machines like Magma use steel/cast iron molds exclusively. They last a long time and resist the temperatures of casting. There are lots of old Hensley and Gibbs iron molds that still are used to cast, even though they are 60 or 80 years old. Steel molds can get surface rust, and if not caught quickly, it can ruin the mold. Brass molds are heavy, they hold casting heat very well. Because of that, so you can set one down and pick it up a couple of minutes later and keep going. No rust problems. A little more easily damaged than steel/iron. I find they drop bullets very easily. Aluminum molds are light, but they don't hold heat well. They really need preheating, and casting hot and fast. Can easily be warped with too much heat or careless whacking (never hit the mold itself - hit the handle hinge pin area). Can be scratched or gouged if you don't keep the sprue plate clean and well lubed (I use synthetic 2-cycle pre-mix oil). Usually are cheaper to manufacture due to lower cost of the metal and easier cutting. No rust problems. These last two seem to catch beginning casters attention more than how well they cast or last. So, my preferences are a H&G iron mold, then brass molds, then an Accurate (or NEI or NOE) aluminum, then other steel molds (RCBS does a great job, Magma, and Lyman not far behind), then if nothing else is available, a Lee aluminum. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Thank you, I will start searching today as I have some free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I have been casting bullets for some time now and never paid much attention to the weight factor before but I have been noticing lately that one group of bullets weigh in at 130 grains +/- 2 and the other group weigh in at 125 grains +/- 2. is that enough of a difference to make my shooting less accurate or is it that the type of shooting we do really won't be effected that much? I am using a Lee mold for the bullets, 125 gr LRNFP 6 block mold. I have noticed that the one bullet slot is such that when I run it through my Lube a matic that it squzees out my crimp ring and I have to toss that one back to the remold pot. Your alloy and casting temp/mold temp plays in here. What's you melt temp when casting? FWIW: I cast 30:1 alloy, .45 cal. 540gn Creedmoor bullet and can hold +/- 1/2 gn with no issue. BTW, more lead=heavier bullet. Why are you run'n such a 'hard' alloy? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 BTW, the QC on all of the mass produced moulds, is a 'crap-shoot' at the best. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captqueeze Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 All my molds are either N.O.E or Lyman(older Lyman). I started with Lee and still have a few and I especially like my 6 cavity 452TC. It's put out excellent bullets from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 For the "oversize bullet" problem - check that the mold faces are clean and that the blocks are not warped. To do that, close the blocks, move the sprue cutter away from the parting line, hold blocks up to a strong light and try to spot any gaps (where you can see light) at the parting line (where the blocks come together). Gaps will be caused by crud on the block faces or in the alignment pin areas, lead particles stuck to the faces, or actually warped blocks. Not much cure for warped blocks. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I have a LEE round two cavity mold. One cavity casts the ball, .451". The other Cavity casts at .454". You get what you pay for. We also have a six cavity, 125 gr. 38/357 mold made be LEE. I doubt that any two are the same. I start at the front and pour to the rear. Because of the steel handle bolt the rear cavities stay hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 RCBS, LBT, Lyman, Lee, Rapine....... 3 makes are aluminum, 2 iron. All have done great once each specific mold's desires have been figured out. Only thing that the aluminum seems to do consistently is produce keepers with fewer warmup casts. Never had any that throw that wide a variance from different cavities. Never had any multi-cavity that would drop significantly different sizes. Only way I've seen different sizes that were significant was a result of way different alloys. The void problem with my setup, alloys, and molds is usually a result of not having an adequate sprue volume. Pretty much operator error. The voids come from not drawing sprue lead into the base of the bullet as it freezes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Bud Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If your 6 Cavity Lee mold is like mine, there's a nice wooden handle on the sprue cutter. Make sure your only holding the two mold handles when pouring the lead. If you squeeze the sprue handle as well, you will get oversized bullets. I had a dickens of a time with my 6 cavity mold for 9 mm until I was told about this and had some so oversized that they stuck in my sizing die. Otherwise, check out the mold as previously described, keep it hot while casting, and use consistent alloy and you should be fine. After my experience with the oversized bullets, I have to question Lee's statement that cast bullets don't need to be sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Holding the spur plate handle is a practice and I have used in the past . I will make it a point to not do it on my next pouring session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 For the "oversize bullet" problem - check that the mold faces are clean and that the blocks are not warped. To do that, close the blocks, move the sprue cutter away from the parting line, hold blocks up to a strong light and try to spot any gaps (where you can see light) at the parting line (where the blocks come together). Gaps will be caused by crud on the block faces or in the alignment pin areas, lead particles stuck to the faces, or actually warped blocks. Not much cure for warped blocks. Good luck, GJ What Joe said about holding the mold to a bright light. Lee 6 cavity molds are a little finicky, and sometimes a pain in da butt. And don't hold at the sprue plate handle, only the mold handles, death grip is not required. First I always heat my molds on a hot plate so they are ready to go, and I pour HOT and fast, I try to maintain 825 degrees. If that means leaving out a few sprue cutoffs that's what I do. I have a fan that blows over the top of the pot. and a fan that blows fresh cool air at my head and body. Over at Cast Boolets they have several threads about Lee-minting the Lee 6 cavity molds. One thing I do when gaps appear (warped mold) and cannot be fixed by resetting the pins is....I take a Dremil and grind down the hole, and the area around the hole side, about the size of a penny more or less, whatever it takes till the light is gone between the halves. Yes I'm grinding aluminum and the steel hole insert so the other (pin) half will lay flat. You can take a straight edge and see the warped mold. I double Blue tape a paper towel to cover the mold to keep the dirt out and to keep from grinding the edge of the bullet mold. Once I have the hole side ground down and there is no more light it's back to pouring. Every now a then you will get a mold that you just cannot fix. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I have always had good luck with Lee products. I have never tried casting for precision shooting but the CAS stuff comes out perfectly(within reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 I went out in the shop and you're right. If you squeeze the handle tight, there is a little bit of light. I plan to have a pouring session on Wednesday and I will try some of the new techniques to see how they come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 Clean the mould first to see if crud is what bow'n the mould. Alum moulds warp to easy for me to ever like'em LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 grip may or may not make a difference loose grip, perhaps a tadd bit more lead, the sizer does not trim it just reshapes mileage will vary it was the voices in my head that tolt me this never trust the voices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 accurate molds make does great work. tom has a web site with all his mold sizes listed. e-mail him with what you require in specific sizing. I got a 45/70 mold made to my request . the final sizing and lube is exactly what in wanted. he does all communication thru e-mail very efficient with return info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I just had an issue with a Lee mold and it was casting under size bullets.......it was the 230 gr .45acp tumble lube bullet. All the molds I use are aluminum and have had no problems with them. I tried it again and ran the pot at max temperature and tossed in some solder with tin......I also had the mold dangling in the pot as it heated up.The end result was a nice bullet. Sgt H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 OK, add one more step to cure oversize and out of round bullets ... check your mold handles! The 2 halves have to be in perfect parallel alignment with pins fitted properly. So, here's the drill: * Holding the handles in both hands, try to wiggle them up and down. If they wiggle - tighten the handle bolt Then hold the closed mold up to a strong light and determine whether or not you see daylight at the bottom of the mold. Loose handles are common with Lee's - tightening the handle bolt with others steps for Lee's is called "Leementing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 The molds seem level and I am not seeing day light. Poured a new batch yesterday and results seem pretty consistant. Number 6, closest to handel pin is to large, ok weight, just to large. Worst case senerio is I pour 5 boolets at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Dollar Drifter Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I have used Lee for a number of years & no problesm & consistency. Have you contacted Lee about it or where you bought the mold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Happy Pappy #24722 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes, and I got the same old big business reply about quality control and how the molds are processed. I evan sent the mold back once and they said the problem must be with me. Funny how all my other molds work just fine except this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I went thru two days of e-mail with lee rep. no joy . sent copies of the e-mails to lee (att john lee). still no joy. went to accurate sent old bulett with sizes and changes I wanted. got a mold that makes me happy. have tried various mixtures and temps. my final measurements are as stated by tom and they size out tight as I desired. if I need more molds I will contact tom. other than the 45/70 I have stopped using alum molds all steal only. one or two cavity. at this time I am looking to replace the lee pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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