Which of the 11 American nations do you live in?

[Subdeacon Joe]

Interesting take on it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/08/which-of-the-11-american-nations-do-you-live-in/

 

Red states and blue states? Flyover country and the coasts? How
simplistic. Colin Woodard, a reporter at the Portland Press Herald and
author of several books, says North America can be broken neatly into 11
separate nation-states, where dominant cultures explain our voting
behaviors and attitudes toward everything from social issues to the role
of government.

[Shorty Jack Hammer]

I'm deep behind enemy lines on the left coast

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

Over-simplification, I'm afraid.

 

Seeing almost the entire New England/NY corner as a historical Yankee enclave "more comfortable with government regulation" is laughable. Those raised as true Yankees (that's not all Union soldiers or NY Baseball players - they appropriated the title from rock-busting farmers and fearless seaman who made livings out of hard lives) are no more comfortable with Big Government than other non-urbanities. Our struggle is with the cities, filled with folks who, because of their upbringing, believe that Government is their friend and the answer to all of their problems. Taught to comply, not to question authority, and to rely upon others to provide that which the rest of us obtain through individual effort, these folks line up like lemmings to vote for their "friends" who promise them jobs or handouts or "safety".

 

This fella, and anyone else who sees monolithic political unity in these kinds of maps, would be enlightened by making some personal contact with the folks they group so casually. I know...it's just a map and an attempt to "explain" the national divide. But it misses the mark.

 

As for the conclusion - he is probably quite accurate that a compromise is unlikely. There is, however, erosion over time, and that's the danger we all face - no matter where we are geographically.

 

Incidentally...and I'm striving hard to keep the "P" word out of this - a certain major voting organization in this country is, in my opinion, missing an opportunity to swing the electoral and economic and cultural landscape. Estimates of illegal immigrants in this country range between 11 million and 40 million. Why should we abandon these folks to the Dark Side? These are people who have fought their way across borders, past criminal exploiters, and into a "Promised Land", in search of primarily economic opportunity. Most are not criminals or people of evil intent; they want what our ancestors wanted, and are willing to work to get it. Most come from countries where they were denied the right of self-protection, and lived in fear because of it. And most probably have a higher understanding of what it means to be desperate for freedom and food and life than the urbanites described above. Are these not our brothers? Are these not people who might embrace our cherished views on preserving individual freedoms? Are these not people who have heard the false, empty promises of politicians in their own home countries, and seen the exploitation of military juntas and other governments who denied them their individual rights? I'm sorry, but I am growing tired of the endless rants about "lazy illegals". I'm sure there are some out there, just as there are lazy Americans. But if we miss this opportunity - in a time when some form of "immigration reform" is likely and 10's of millions of new voters are likely to be added to the mix - to persuade those new voters that WE represent their future and the future of America - we will find ourselves even more isolated.

 

Can you tell that I've been reading CNN this morning, and the gleeful predictions from the Evil Empire that these potential voters are somehow automatically "theirs"?

 

LL

[Poet Jones 99980]

I'm deep, very deep in the Deep South.

[Blackwater 53393]

I won't argue the fact that we need to attract the new voting block to our way of thinking. I WILL remind those who continually miss the point that these "new voters" ARE in fact CRIMINALS, "Illeagal imigrants" have broken the law by their non-legal entry into this country!! That some of them are allowed to vote is a slap in the face to those who join us by the propper procedures and legally imigrate here.

 

True immigration reform SHOULD require that these non-legal residents return to their home country and start the process through legal channels. In the case of political refugees, there is also a process to gain admission. The infrastructure required to do it right is no more costly than doing it wrong and paying for it on the other end!! It would certainly be less costly in lives ended or ruined than by what is happening now!!!!!!!

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

loophole, very insightful!!!

 

here in fl I see them doing the jobs no one else will, and are hard workers, ask T-Bone about the men he supervised in TX taking out and putting in reflectors in the middle of the road.

 

we should revise our thinking about this, if we don't we're going to have it crammed down our throats anyway,,, and without any power for anything else either...

 

eyes wide open,

 

cpbc

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Yankeedom , but seriously West Michigan is way more conservative than the central to east side of the state so I kinda say hogwash

 

GG ~

[Rye Miles #13621]

Northeast Ohio a bastion of liberalism unless you're in Lake, Geauga, Medina counties which border Cuyahoga they tend to be more conservative. Ohio leans to the conservative side which makes it a "purple" state.

 

Rye

[Curley Fryes]

Yankeedom.....but I don't care about labels or what anybody thinks........I think on my own.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Oversimplified, yeah. But still more nuanced than the usual "East coast, left coast, and fly-over" that we hear. I know that I, and many of my friends, don't fit the "Left Coast" description. But I think the broad strokes are reasonably accurate.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

loophole, very insightful!!!

 

here in fl I see them doing the jobs no one else will, and are hard workers, ask T-Bone about the men he supervised in TX taking out and putting in reflectors in the middle of the road.

 

we should revise our thinking about this, if we don't we're going to have it crammed down our throats anyway,,, and without any power for anything else either...

 

eyes wide open,

 

cpbc

 

CC:

 

I hate to get anecdotal, because I'm sure that someone else can offer an opposing incident. But in my territory, all you need to do is walk through downtown Boston around dusk, and you will see armies of Mexicans, Central Americans and South Americans, all headed for the night shift cleaning jobs in the high rise offices. These people are doing the jobs that the rest of us do not want to do, and are doing them well. Show up at a construction job in the suburbs, and 90% of the laborers are Latinos. Go to any landscaping job, and most of the crew are the same. Now, you can also go to any urban district court, and 50% or more of the criminal defendants have Latino surnames - but they are far outnumbered by their hard-working countrymen.

 

I understand that their entry was illegal. If they came here to commit crimes or freeload, I'm more than fine with sending them back. But if they came here to work, to escape abject poverty or political oppression, I think we need a different answer. Given how the world is, I don't believe we should turn honest, hard-working people away. We just can't - it's not American.

 

My in-laws were post-WWII refugees. They went through hell to get here. They were fortunate that at the time, the country opened its arms for people displaced by the war. If you saw them get off the boat, you might have smirked at their obvious poverty, their lack of language skills, and their odd clothing. But they were honest, hard-working people, and through labor and thrift, they become parents, homeowners, and taxpayers. And citizens. When the Russians were finally forced out of their homeland in the 90's, they never considered going back; they were Americans in the fullest sense of the word.

 

I just have the sense that it may be time for us to open our arms again.

 

'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!'

 

LL

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Oversimplified, yeah. But still more nuanced than the usual "East coast, left coast, and fly-over" that we hear. I know that I, and many of my friends, don't fit the "Left Coast" description. But I think the broad strokes are reasonably accurate.

 

True - Broad strokes are simply that - broad.

 

GG ~

[Subdeacon Joe]

I understand that their entry was illegal. If they came here to
commit crimes or freeload, I'm more than fine with sending them back.
But if they came here to work, to escape abject poverty or political
oppression, I think we need a different answer. Given how the world is,
I don't believe we should turn honest, hard-working people away. We
just can't - it's not American.

 

My in-laws were post-WWII refugees. They went through hell to get
here. They were fortunate that at the time, the country opened its arms
for people displaced by the war. If you saw them get off the boat, you
might have smirked at their obvious poverty, their lack of language
skills, and their odd clothing. But they were honest, hard-working
people, and through labor and thrift, they become parents, homeowners,
and taxpayers. And citizens. When the Russians were finally forced out
of their homeland in the 90's, they never considered going back; they
were Americans in the fullest sense of the word.

 

 

And that, I think, is a major difference. Those who came before, for the most part, wanted to become Americans and integrate into our society. Now, at least for many that I see here in CA, there is no interest in becoming part of society. They want to keep their old ways, old language, old everything except standard of living and benefits.

My moms people came over from somewhere in the Carpatho-Rus area (country depends on just when you draw the borders) to escape poverty and oppression. Became coal miners in PA. Learned English, became Americans. My dad's people came over in the lat 1600s or early 1700s, likely to get ahead of the law. But also for a fresh start.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Choctaw!

[Noz]

I won't argue the fact that we need to attract the new voting block to our way of thinking. I WILL remind those who continually miss the point that these "new voters" ARE in fact CRIMINALS, "Illeagal imigrants" have broken the law by their non-legal entry into this country!! That some of them are allowed to vote is a slap in the face to those who join us by the propper procedures and legally imigrate here.

 

True immigration reform SHOULD require that these non-legal residents return to their home country and start the process through legal channels. In the case of political refugees, there is also a process to gain admission. The infrastructure required to do it right is no more costly than doing it wrong and paying for it on the other end!! It would certainly be less costly in lives ended or ruined than by what is happening now!!!!!!!

Man, do we think alike or what?

 

 

It is not right when a woman can sneak across the border 9 month pregnant, check into an emergency room, receive free health care and be guaranteed residency in the US because her baby is a citizen.

There is a whole aura given to such illegals that they are simply "looking for work", especially work that white workers will not do. Ask the avacado farmers how that is working for them. Many thousands of pounds of fruit left on the ground because the fabulous workers from south of the border woukd rather pick welfare checks than avacados.

[Litl Red]

Dominant cultures? Based on ancestry and original beliefs? Pure bull crap............

 

Having lived in 5 of those supposed 'Nations', they all shared the same characteristic, something he misses completely. The author's idea that each nation is shaped by the original inhabitants is pure BS. There weren't any natives left in Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Charlotte, nor here. Every one of those had conglomerate populations from somewhere else. They all were huge concentrations of people from somewhere else.

 

Ethnic ancestors have no real effect when there is no attraction to ethnic neighborhoods. The work forces and leaders of the major cities are anything but ethnically sorted. The only remaining ethnic concentrations are in the growing welfare neighborhoods and sections. Those concentrations shoot the author's theory dead. They are forming a universal demographic that is in every big city. And our one Nation is becoming a collection of big cities, all of which are pretty much just big cities of transient workers living in non-ethnic neighborhoods whose culture isn't shaped by the original inhabitants beliefs.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

Subdeacon:

 

You said:

 

"And that, I think, is a major difference. Those who came before, for the most part, wanted to become Americans and integrate into our society. Now, at least for many that I see here in CA, there is no interest in becoming part of society. They want to keep their old ways, old language, old everything except standard of living and benefits. "

 

That's a hard one that I have thought about - and I think there is a difference between then and now. First, for the many that are illegals, they keep to themselves, stay out of the public eye, stay clustered together, and avoid "mixing". They are too afraid of deportation or other legal problems that they cannot make any overt effort to "become Americans". They perceive that they are not wanted, and so they try not to be noticed. The situation is quite different for those who have been able to immigrate legally, and like other immigrants before them, they are integrating into our society. My gut sense is that if we could arrive at a plan for a path to citizenship, we would find willing, productive citizens galore.

 

But then, I still believe in the basic goodness of my fellow man.

 

LL

[Blackwater 53393]

Man, do we think alike or what?

 

 

It is not right when a woman can sneak across the border 9 month pregnant, check into an emergency room, receive free health care and be guaranteed residency in the US because her baby is a citizen.

There is a whole aura given to such illegals that they are simply "looking for work", especially work that white workers will not do. Ask the avacado farmers how that is working for them. Many thousands of pounds of fruit left on the ground because the fabulous workers from south of the border woukd rather pick welfare checks than avacados.

 

I reckon we do think a lot alike! I worked for forty-four years and paid into the Social Security System for the entire time. When Medicare started I paid into that as well. Bear in mind that during that entire time I was always earning at least three times minimum wage doing hart technical work that I studied to learn how to do and often paid for the education involved in learning my trade from my own pocket. I did go to college on my own dime as well. The benefiets I'm now receiving are NOT entitlements. They are the dismally small fruits of my past labors, paid for by me and earned by ME!!!

 

Now we're giving, I REPEAT!! GIVING those same benefiets to "undocumented individuals", also known as illegal aliens, also known as violators of our imigration laws, also known as CRIMINALS!!! These "individuals" have not contributed anything to the fund that these benefiets are drawn from. That is no better than STEALING something to which they are NOT ENTITLED!!!

 

WHY in heaven's name should I, or for that matter any reasonable person, be willing to allow this to happen? I was raised on the principle that you work for what you get and if you don't work you don't eat! I twice had to draw on the unemployment system. It ran all over me the first time because of my upbringing and yes, my pride. Taking something for nothing didn't agree with my whole way of life!! My former employer told me to collect the check and that if he hadn't had to pay into it he'd have been able to pay me more!

 

The point I'm making here is that we are paying for these people to work for less, use our public, (already overcrowded) schools, give their kids free lunches, provide medical services for which they DON'T pay, flood our court systems with cases that when settled they duck out and DON'T pay for, and then expect us to learn their language and abide by their customs to the exclusion of our own!!!

 

I have no problem with lawful naturalised immigrants to our country. I welcome them and encourage more like them. But anchor babies and all of the other tricks used to remain here illegally should be summarily outlawed and those using them immediately shown the EXIT!! NOW !! TODAY!! YESTERDAY IF NOT SOONER!!!

[Rancocas]

Without comment, guess I'm in the Midlands

[Riverboat Red, SASS #71733]

While geographically in the heart of Minneapolis (Yankeedom). I reside in the Republic of Git the H@ll Offa my Porch!

 

RR

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

in the state of CONFUSION most days

 

the other days it is CORN FUSION

 

CB

[Subdeacon Joe]

Subdeacon:

 

You said:

 

"And that, I think, is a major difference. Those who came before, for the most part, wanted to become Americans and integrate into our society. Now, at least for many that I see here in CA, there is no interest in becoming part of society. They want to keep their old ways, old language, old everything except standard of living and benefits. "

 

That's a hard one that I have thought about - and I think there is a difference between then and now. First, for the many that are illegals, they keep to themselves, stay out of the public eye, stay clustered together, and avoid "mixing". They are too afraid of deportation or other legal problems that they cannot make any overt effort to "become Americans". They perceive that they are not wanted, and so they try not to be noticed. The situation is quite different for those who have been able to immigrate legally, and like other immigrants before them, they are integrating into our society. My gut sense is that if we could arrive at a plan for a path to citizenship, we would find willing, productive citizens galore.

 

But then, I still believe in the basic goodness of my fellow man.

 

LL

 

Here in CA even a lot of those in the country legally don't seem to want to integrate into the mainstream.

 

We DO have paths to citizenship. And a great many people have been diligent in following those paths, legally and slowly. The climate now is to push those people back, basically penalize them for following the law, and jumping those here illegally to the head of the line. We did this whole deal once before under Reagan. I don't see why we need to do it again with something like 4 times the number of people.

 

I do too. But, I also believe that people need to follow the law.

 

On the subject of the law, the Constitution of the State of California, Art. 3, Sec. 6 says that English is the official language of California. Yet we produce all official papers and forms in at least a dozen languages. How many tens of billions of dollars does all that translation and printing cost the CA taxpayer?

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Yankeedom , but seriously West Michigan is way more conservative than the central to east side of the state so I kinda say hogwash

 

GG ~

+1 .

Amen Brother