A question about the M 16 rifle

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I have never held an M 16 type rifle, let alone shot with one. I am a tried and true .30 caliber, more precisely, a .30-06 fan. The .308/7.62x 51 mm round is great, but I just prefer what I know, the .30-06. I am not trying to stir any pot, but looking to learn something here.

 

I was looking at a picture of the black rifle in the Cabela's shooting catalog. I noticed a hinged piece on the side of the barrel. I presume that this is some kind of protective device to keep dirt out of the action? Is it required and what is it's true function?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Dust cover over the ejection port? Yeah, supposed to keep crud out of the action. Does it work well? It kep dust out of mine but I never lugged it around is really dirty conditions.

 

[Remo, SASS #17644]

I believe what you are referring to is actually on the right side of the receiver. It is the hinged cover that serves to keep dirt and debris from entering the bolt and action area. It is closed manually and pops open when the rifle is charged.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Some manufacturers of the AR-15 (original name of the M-16 rifle and its current semi-auto name) make a AR-15 without the dust cover and with no provisions for mounting it.

DPMS for sure.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Yep, you guys nailed it. Exactly what I was looking at. Next question, as I understand that the upper assy comes off of the lower assy. Ok, what is the upper assembly. Barrel, and what else??? And how are they disengaged?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/manual_bushmaster.pdf

 

somewhere around page 16 you start to see the separated gun.

[BONEYARD BILL, SASS #39,030]

Just my 2 cents - I was an Infantryman in Viet Nam and took a lot of training with the M-16 and carried it all 9 months that I was in Viet Nam.

 

The "part" that you reference is a "dust cover" as such.

 

You must remember that Viet Nam had a dry season - and it was DRY in May - June - July

- August and most of September.

Of course, being around helicopters all the time stirred up the dust. In my 9 months - I was in 17 helicopter assault missions. Plus - on the fire bases (about 1 week out of 4 or 5) the

darn helicopters were all over the place. In fact, on the fire bases (we pulled

security) we were always cleaning them - once a day at a minimum.

 

As a side note - I just received 100% disability from the VA. It is comprised

of 50% rating on PTSD and 2 bouts of prostate cancer (triggered by Agent Orange exposure).

 

I urge fellow Viet Nam veterans to apply for the benefits that they deserve.

 

Thanks for the soapbox.

 

- Boneyard Bill

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thanks Marshal. I never thought to look at the manuals.

 

I would guess that the recoil factor and the availability of ammunition would be an issue in the popularity of the rifle. I do understand that there is an issue with the .223 civilian ammunition and the 5,5x 45 Nato rounds. I am not sure of what the difference is, but I know that the military ammo should not be fired in the AR 15 version, is that correct?

 

 

 

What prompted this discussion is that I was thinking about the M1 Carbine in WW II as a military weapon and that they became very popular after the war with folks, but not nearly as much as the black rifles have become. Perhaps it has to do with the ballistics of the rounds.

[Noz]

The History Channel had an hour on the M-16 last night and if you didn't know better you would believe that it is the finest piece of military hardware ever produced.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Just my 2 cents - I was an Infantryman in Viet Nam and took a lot of training with the M-16 and carried it all 9 months that I was in Viet Nam.

 

The "part" that you reference is a "dust cover" as such.

 

You must remember that Viet Nam had a dry season - and it was DRY in May - June - July

- August and most of September.

Of course, being around helicopters all the time stirred up the dust. In my 9 months - I was in 17 helicopter assault missions. Plus - on the fire bases (about 1 week out of 4 or 5) the

darn helicopters were all over the place. In fact, on the fire bases (we pulled

security) we were always cleaning them - once a day at a minimum.

 

As a side note - I just received 100% disability from the VA. It is comprised

of 50% rating on PTSD and 2 bouts of prostate cancer (triggered by Agent Orange exposure).

 

I urge fellow Viet Nam veterans to apply for the benefits that they deserve.

 

Thanks for the soapbox.

 

- Boneyard Bill

 

And thank you for your service to OUR COUNTRY.

 

I never served in Vietnam, but I had three cousins that did, and we lost one to a land mine.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

The History Channel had an hour on the M-16 last night and if you didn't know better you would believe that it is the finest piece of military hardware ever produced.

 

I missed that Noz. I am not a fan of the M-16/AR 15, but apparently a lot of folks are. Like I said earlier, I am a fan of the old .30 caliber bullet and the M1 Garand has a warm place in my heart.

 

I find it interesting that two of the objections to the .30 caliber round was recoil and muzzle rise. I would think that these would be minor issues in a fire fight. JMO.

[Utah Bob #35998]

The M16 has been improved considerably over the past 45 years. It works well. It's an effective weapon. It's used world wide by a number of military forces.

It's just too bad they didn't improve the caliber.

 

What's needed is a combination M16(M4)/Ak/M1.

Good luck designing one though.

 

And the next generation battle rifle will be a whole 'nother animal.

I just hope they can afford more than one per squad.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

I find it interesting that two of the objections to the .30 caliber round was recoil and muzzle rise. I would think that these would be minor issues in a fire fight. JMO.

 

How would shooting over the enemies head cause them to surrender?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

It seems to me that the development is faced toward a urban warfare concept. Nothing wrong with that in this day and age, but what about an open long range conflict like some of the middle east issues of late?

 

 

While a 5.5 caliber round might do just fine in a city environment, I question it's value in a long range gun battle. Not that I know all that much about long range gun battles.

 

Perhaps we should go with the Mosin Nagant rifle. It is long range, or at least long barreled.

[Noz]

I missed that Noz. I am not a fan of the M-16/AR 15, but apparently a lot of folks are. Like I said earlier, I am a fan of the old .30 caliber bullet and the M1 Garand has a warm place in my heart.

 

I find it interesting that two of the objections to the .30 caliber round was recoil and muzzle rise. I would think that these would be minor issues in a fire fight. JMO.

 

I received my marksmanship training on the 30-06 M1. Our parade weapons were 03s. And yes, my first issued boots were brown and came with a bottle of black dye.

[Smoken D]

I received my marksmanship training on the 30-06 M1. Our parade weapons were 03s. And yes, my first issued boots were brown and came with a bottle of black dye.

 

Dang Noz, had no idea that the M1 went all the way back to the Revolutionary War

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I THINK ,

 

NOZ told me his first issue weapon was a

 

SLING with smooth river rocks

 

CB

[TUSCON THE TERRIBLE SASS#47089]

Utah Bob - I think there is such a gun.

Made in Korea years ago by Daewoo.

If I remember correctly it looked like an AK upper on an M16 lower.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

How did that black dye work out for you Noz. It kept coming off and leaving the brown underneath for me.

I finally broke down and bought a pair of black boots. Actually two pair, four boots, all black. And yes, I did shoot my qualification on the KD range with the M1 Garand.

[Red Logan #12252]

13 clickx. 13 clickx...

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Dang sight came lose on the three hundred yard line and I could not hit the target.

 

I had to go back the next week and requalify.

[Shakey Merlot]

The M16 has gone through many, many changes since Vietnam, even since I retired in 1994. But it's still a CQB weapon. It sucks in open country, where you can see and fight past 300 yards. They only saving grace there is that the AK47 isn't any better for distance. Many will say the M16 is accurate out to 450 or 500 yards and it is if, like me, you were an artilleryman and could have Fire Direction plot the bullet for you or you are really, really, REALLY GOOD at Kentucky windage. My personal preference would be to see an improved M16 in some caliber between 5.56 and 7.62. And screw NATO, who we are always trying to appease by buying into their crap.

 

Shakey

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

The M16 has gone through many, many changes since Vietnam, even since I retired in 1994. But it's still a CQB weapon. It sucks in open country, where you can see and fight past 300 yards. They only saving grace there is that the AK47 isn't any better for distance. Many will say the M16 is accurate out to 450 or 500 yards and it is if, like me, you were an artilleryman and could have Fire Direction plot the bullet for you or you are really, really, REALLY GOOD at Kentucky windage. My personal preference would be to see an improved M16 in some caliber between 5.56 and 7.62. And screw NATO, who we are always trying to appease by buying into their crap.

 

Shakey

 

I can find no fault with that statement, Shakey. I also believe why bring a 5.5 when you can bring a 105.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Utah Bob - I think there is such a gun.

Made in Korea years ago by Daewoo.

If I remember correctly it looked like an AK upper on an M16 lower.

This'n?

The Koreans replaced their M16s with this home grown rifle. Similar gas system to the AK and similar bolt and lower to the M16. Supposed to be pretty reliable. Still a 5.56 though/

[Big Jake1001]

Hey BMC, I have some time in with the M1 in 30-06...ouch, it kicks. Only 8 rounds...goes quick.

Boot camp USMC with the M 14 in .7.62mm.....20 rounds and it doesn't kick with the same sharp jab of the '06.

Scout Sniper School we used the Rem 700 bolt gun w/ 3x9 Redfield scope. Even better recoil than the M-14.

We did shoot M-16's before going to Vietnam and could and did shoot them out to 600 yards. I like the M-14 better.

M-16's users can carry more ammo than M-14 guys, that's why they called them in on July 4th 1970 in Vietnam.

I like the M-16....I love the M-14. Mine had a full auto selector...didn't use it much unless I had the bi-pods folded down and was in the prone position.....kinda like the M-60 machine gun.

 

If you ever want a .30 cal...try a M-14 with 20 rounds instead of a M-1 with 8 rounds.

 

Jake

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Hey BMC, I have some time in with the M1 in 30-06...ouch, it kicks. Only 8 rounds...goes quick.

Boot camp USMC with the M 14 in .7.62mm.....20 rounds and it doesn't kick with the same sharp jab of the '06.

Scout Sniper School we used the Rem 700 bolt gun w/ 3x9 Redfield scope. Even better recoil than the M-14.

We did shoot M-16's before going to Vietnam and could and did shoot them out to 600 yards. I like the M-14 better.

M-16's users can carry more ammo than M-14 guys, that's why they called them in on July 4th 1970 in Vietnam.

I like the M-16....I love the M-14. Mine had a full auto selector...didn't use it much unless I had the bi-pods folded down and was in the prone position.....kinda like the M-60 machine gun.

 

If you ever want a .30 cal...try a M-14 with 20 rounds instead of a M-1 with 8 rounds.

 

Jake

Thank for the info, Jake. But I don't think I will be charging the line anytime soon at my age. I got the M1 tucked away in the safe. It is all mine. (He said with a mad, wild look in his eyes.) If I can't stop them ZOMBIES with 8 rounds of 30-06, well, I guess I am going to lose face..

 

I did get to shoot the BAR in the Army. What a hoot that was. We were supposed to fire three round burst. Best I could do was hold it to five.

 

I would like to shoot an M 14 sometime. I probably will never get the chance, but I am curious.

 

 

[Diamond S Doug]

Thanks Marshal. I never thought to look at the manuals.

 

I would guess that the recoil factor and the availability of ammunition would be an issue in the popularity of the rifle. I do understand that there is an issue with the .223 civilian ammunition and the 5,5x 45 Nato rounds. I am not sure of what the difference is, but I know that the military ammo should not be fired in the AR 15 version, is that correct?

 

They are dimensionally the same. The difference lies in power. The 5.56 is more powerful. Therefore you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 but should not shoot 5.56 in a .223. The only difference is the proof testing of the chamber and barrel and one of the chambers can put the projectile in touch with the rifling. I believe it is the 5.56.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

I would like to shoot an M 14 sometime. I probably will never get the chance, but I am curious.

 

An M-14 on semi-auto is one of the finest all-around rifles ever invented. On full-auto, you better have your dental insurance paid up 'cause that 8 lb gun will rattle your teeth loose.

[Ethan Cord]

 

It's just too bad they didn't improve the caliber.

 

 

I am currently interested in the .300 Blackout. I think it has some interesting possibilities on the AR platform. Now I just need a bunch of $$$ to send to my friend at Noveske!

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

My brother bought a new M1-A, which is the civilian version of the M-14. That rifle will shoot! I put two touching and one about 3/4 to the right at 100 yards with open sights. Recoil wassn't bad at all. That rifle could get habit forming. If it wasn't for food needs I'd get me one!

 

Never shot an M1 Garand, but I surely want to.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

The M1 is addictive also, Pulp. I could not be more delighted with mine. I believe the 7.62 x 51 is a more accurate round than the 30-06 but Grandpa can still give a run for the money.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

This'n?

The Koreans replaced their M16s with this home grown rifle. Similar gas system to the AK and similar bolt and lower to the M16. Supposed to be pretty reliable. Still a 5.56 though/

 

They should update their website

 

Daewoo DR-200 (semi-auto civilian version in.223 Remington), without magazine; note the "post-1994 ban" thumbhole non-foldingbuttstock, required by current USA laws

[Bama Red]

My brother bought a new M1-A, which is the civilian version of the M-14. That rifle will shoot! I put two touching and one about 3/4 to the right at 100 yards with open sights. Recoil wassn't bad at all. That rifle could get habit forming. If it wasn't for food needs I'd get me one!

 

Never shot an M1 Garand, but I surely want to.

 

Pulp, food is highly overrated! Go without for a week or two and get you one of those Springfield Armory M1A's - they are a great rifle!

[Utah Bob #35998]

They should update their website

 

[/i]

Yeah.

Didn't really read it. Just wanted to post some pics.

I've heard they're pretty reliable but parts are a problem if you need em.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Pulp, food is highly overrated! Go without for a week or two and get you one of those Springfield Armory M1A's - they are a great rifle!

It would be more than a week or two for me. A lot more!