Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Mike, I and others WILL enforce the rules whether we like them or not. Please stop suggesting otherwise. by no means have I EVER suggested that you will not enforce the rules this is bout folks that dont and they are out there, some even brag about it this issue goes beyond the gf specific issue as well not enforcing the rules has been discussed at every tg meetin I have ever attended always discussed,,,,,,, with true gusto and meaning not awarding an earned penatly, penalizes every other shooter at the shoot simple as that tally-hoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 If I was a pool shark !!!!!! and !!!! I call every shot that I make before the cue hits the ball!!!!! and !!!! if the ball goes in the correct pocket... Would I get a penalty?????? or a check for the win????? I always wanted CASH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 where in the rule book does it say Simultaneous firing or firing two pistols at the same time is illegal? I am not asking for an implied rule as You read or interpret it... Please only post the book, page and line.....That should solve things... I will play by the rules and enforce them to the letter. If it is dangerous---I will stop it!!!! If it's fun---I will jump in !!!!! Last month I shot a different category on every stage that I could remember.... Hey,,,,Y'all find someone else to talk about now!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 where in the rule book does it say Simultaneous firing or firing two pistols at the same time is illegal? I am not asking for an implied rule as You read or interpret it... Please only post the book, page and line.....That should solve things... I will play by the rules and enforce them to the letter. If it is dangerous---I will stop it!!!! If it's fun---I will jump in !!!!! Last month I shot a different category on every stage that I could remember.... Hey,,,,Y'all find someone else to talk about now!!!!!! No way - Me loves the way you shoot pard! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hey,,,,Y'all find someone else to talk about now!!!!!! There's a great line in a movie where the critic is just hammering on this famous writer. The guy let's him go on and on and he finally says, "Remind me again what it was that they wrote about you last month?" The critic says, "They didn't write anything about me." The famous writer says, "EXACTLY!" Enjoy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost, SASS #50125 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There's a great line in a movie where the critic is just hammering on this famous writer. The guy let's him go on and on and he finally says, "Remind me again what it was that they wrote about you last month?" The critic says, "They didn't write anything about me." The famous writer says, "EXACTLY!" Enjoy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 where in the rule book does it say Simultaneous firing or firing two pistols at the same time is illegal? I am not asking for an implied rule as You read or interpret it... Please only post the book, page and line.....That should solve things... Shooters Handbook Version 18.1 Page 13......dot number 6 • Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring. I'm no English major but I'm pretty sure "must be shot one at a time" means that "Simultaneous firing or firing two pistols at the same time " is ILLEGAL......the caveat (to facilitate scoring) as to why you can't fire both pistols at the same time is irrelevant. It plainly states both pistols must be shot one at a time. Firing both pistols at the same time would result in a Gunfighter not adhering to the guidelines of the Gunfighter category. The penalty would be a "P" which can be found in the SASS Range Operations Basic Safety Course Version "M".3 in the "10-SECOND PENALTIES section Page 24 dot 5 • Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing. If the Gunfighter repeats the offence the penalty would be a "SDQ" which can be found in the SASS Range Operations Basic Safety Course Version "M".3 in the STAGE DISQUALIFICATION section Page 25 first dot of the page • Second offence, in the same match, for failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which the shooter is competing. If the Gunfighter repeats the offence for the THIRD time the penalty would be a "MDQ" which can be found SASS Range Operations Basic Safety Course Version "M".3 in the MATCH DISQUALIFICATION section Page 25 9th dot of the section • Third offence, in the same match, for failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which the shooter is competing. I've shot with some of the fastest two handed guys in the sport and "I" could always tell whether 1 or 2 shots were fired at a time. I've also shot with some gunfighters that were middle of the pack at best and more than once thought they only fired 9 rounds when they had actually shot all 10. I along with other spotters yelled out "1 left in the pistol" but were wrong and we interfered with the shooter. I see that as a big potential problem if we allow both pistols to be shot at the same time. If you guys can answer how to get spotters to do two things.....then I will be all for it. 1. Count shots with certainty 2. Be able to look at two different targets at the same time to watch for HITS Until then..... "I" can see the need for this particular category guideline. Stan P.S. T-Bone you guys did a great job at EOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Shooters Handbook Version 18.1 Page 13......dot number 6 I see that as a big potential problem if we allow both pistols to be shot at the same time. If you guys can answer how to get spotters to do two things.....then I will be all for it. 1. Count shots with certainty 2. Be able to look at two different targets at the same time to watch for HITS Until then..... "I" can see the need for this particular category guideline. Stan P.S. T-Bone you guys did a great job at EOT I agree with ya and I am a gunfighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hey Stan, You otta give that Gunfighter thing a try......betca you might do well Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Thank You answering my question...There is no way a shooter can shoot simultaneously with two revolvers...... This would have to happen,,,2 Guns integrally working the exact same time, 2 hammers hitting the firing pin at and going off at the exact time, 2 bullets hand loaded going off at the exact same time, with no difference in fps speed, 2 human hands left and right that are Finely tuned and calibrated to pull the triggers at the exact time and put that all together with 2 targets that are set at different [[distance]] locations in the bay and hit the target at the exact same time.... AND You say a shooter can do all this at the exact same time !!!!!!! Hell fire I'm just a dumb ole country boy!!!!I don't think anyone can do all that at the exact same time??????????? WOW!!! Logic would only say that each pistol was shot at different times, the splits were close but not exactly at the same time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Sounds like a job for the boys at Myth Busters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahoma Dee Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 It is evident that the quality and education of counters, to facilite scoring, has not increased as the quality and education of shooters has. So what do you do? How does an aging/new shooter, that is trying To keep up with the younger/mature, faster technical shooters, give quality counting/scoring? Can they? Do you need to qualify for the position of counter? How do you teach or train an aging/new shooter, what to look for or understand when someone like Rattlesnake Wrangler does a double tap on a target and it sounds like one shot???? An he's only using his rifle or his pistol??? Now you have a confused counter.... Maybe more thought needs to be given to placement of the shooters/counters ablilities in State matches and above. Maybe SASS needs to start a counters class - starting with hearing tests, counting tests, and eye tests, - boy howdy, that will open up a can of worms! Where would the qualifications end? But in the end, are gifted shooters being chained by the lack of compentent counters? all in all , This is a good debate. OkD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Thank You answering my question...There is no way a shooter can shoot simultaneously with two revolvers...... This would have to happen,,,2 Guns integrally working the exact same time, 2 hammers hitting the firing pin at and going off at the exact time, 2 bullets hand loaded going off at the exact same time, with no difference in fps speed, 2 human hands left and right that are Finely tuned and calibrated to pull the triggers at the exact time and put that all together with 2 targets that are set at different [[distance]] locations in the bay and hit the target at the exact same time.... AND You say a shooter can do all this at the exact same time !!!!!!! Hell fire I'm just a dumb ole country boy!!!!I don't think anyone can do all that at the exact same time??????????? WOW!!! Logic would only say that each pistol was shot at different times, the splits were close but not exactly at the same time... There certainly is a way for them to shoot both pistols at the same time and there not be a discernible difference to your average dumb ole country boy or a sophisticated technical device we call a timer.......I guess logic would dictate that as well....otherwise we wouldn't be on page 4 now would we. Stan - the dumb ole country boy who is very interested in the answer to the question....... "how do spotters watch for hits on 2 different targets at the same time?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There certainly is a way for them to shoot both pistols at the same time and there not be a discernible difference to your average dumb ole country boy or a sophisticated technical device we call a timer.......I guess logic would dictate that as well....otherwise we wouldn't be on page 4 now would we. Stan - the dumb ole country boy who is very interested in the answer to the question....... "how do spotters watch for hits on 2 different targets at the same time?" Marty Feldman style GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 There certainly is a way for them to shoot both pistols at the same time and there not be a discernible difference to your average dumb ole country boy or a sophisticated technical device we call a timer.......I guess logic would dictate that as well....otherwise we wouldn't be on page 4 now would we. Stan - the dumb ole country boy who is very interested in the answer to the question....... "how do spotters watch for hits on 2 different targets at the same time?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Same way they watch 5 targets when no order is given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Same way they watch 5 targets when no order is given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Stan. I don't know how I got pulled into this topic and very sorry for taking anymore of anyone's time. But the answer to your question is,,, quickly. I do not think I have shot gunfighter at any large match ever that I can recall and really don't care what happens to the outcome of this topic. Y'all figure it out and let us ole country boys know what happened...Oh Yea thanks for the plug at EOT.... We try really hard to keep everyone entertained. I'm out of this topic.. T-Bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 P.S. Goody don't lettem pull Ya in..... See You in the Badlands next week.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Thank You answering my question...There is no way a shooter can shoot simultaneously with two revolvers...... This would have to happen,,,2 Guns integrally working the exact same time, 2 hammers hitting the firing pin at and going off at the exact time, 2 bullets hand loaded going off at the exact same time, with no difference in fps speed, 2 human hands left and right that are Finely tuned and calibrated to pull the triggers at the exact time and put that all together with 2 targets that are set at different [[distance]] locations in the bay and hit the target at the exact same time.... AND You say a shooter can do all this at the exact same time !!!!!!! Hell fire I'm just a dumb ole country boy!!!!I don't think anyone can do all that at the exact same time??????????? WOW!!! Logic would only say that each pistol was shot at different times, the splits were close but not exactly at the same time... for those that buy this the edea folks cant time things from their brains threw the hands trough a mechinical device please explain to my feable mind how can music ever sound good many minds working many hands working many mechinical thingies at the same time geeeeeese the rules of life never ask for perfection you are stateing perfection vs rules I think??????????????????? how would you fix the gunfighter rule? sassmaddmike@yahoo.com and if it was impossible to fire both pistols at the exact same time it still breaks the current rules in place wow- i conceed it does not break outlaw rules it does not break i want to make a great video rule it does not break i gunna do *&^% so give me the p right now rules geeeeeese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Mike SASS #38824 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I think this horse is dead .... finally !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Oh Yea thanks for the plug at EOT.... We try really hard to keep everyone entertained. I'm out of this topic.. T-Bone Quite Welcome Pard! Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 OH NO! Please don't let this topic die. What are Widder & I gonna talk about at lunch??? Hasta Luego, Keystone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 OH NO! Please don't let this topic die. What are Widder & I gonna talk about at lunch??? Hasta Luego, Keystone hey keystone how about this at lunch with the great widdow maker when gun fighter category was invented many clubs that I traveled and shot at did NOT allow gunfighter reasoning waz one brain can not control two loaded guns true story many of the clubs were in AZ at the time Lash latigo was traveling with me at the time I have witness's oh yeh we had to carry a gunfighter certified card with us as well so you see, gunfighter category has always been :lol: how many gunfighters go back this far if so tell yer stories oh the cert had to be signed by a CAS range officier that you have competeted in a minimum of 3 shoots as a gun fighter-----safely true fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 how would you fix the gunfighter rule? Remove the rule that allows both guns to be cocked at the same time. We all shoot four guns, name any other two that are allowed to be cocked at the same time. Pistol & rifle? Pistol & shotgun? Rifle & shotgun? Someone earlier was striving for consistency, there's consistency for you; only one gun cocked at a time, PERIOD. (Having said that, I LOVE watching T-Bone shoot ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Remove the rule that allows both guns to be cocked at the same time. We all shoot four guns, name any other two that are allowed to be cocked at the same time. Pistol & rifle? Pistol & shotgun? Rifle & shotgun? Someone earlier was striving for consistency, there's consistency for you; only one gun cocked at a time, PERIOD. (Having said that, I LOVE watching T-Bone shoot ) ding ding ding gudd idea and a simple solution ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 T-Bone I'm so sorry you got drug into the water on this topic...here have a towel and a fresh glass of Crown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Remove the rule that allows both guns to be cocked at the same time. We all shoot four guns, name any other two that are allowed to be cocked at the same time. Pistol & rifle? Pistol & shotgun? Rifle & shotgun? Someone earlier was striving for consistency, there's consistency for you; only one gun cocked at a time, PERIOD. (Having said that, I LOVE watching T-Bone shoot ) And to hell with the 99% of GF'ers that don't, in the opinion of a few here, try to cheat? Oh yeah, that's a great idea. Those of us who double cock can now look forward to a penalty every time we shoot until we can retrain our brains and thumbs? Absolutely a great idea. Who's the next group that outshoots someone that will go under the microscope? Come on Vanilla, we's gettin too varied here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 T-Bone I'm so sorry you got drug into the water on this topic...here have a towel and a fresh glass of Crown for you folks that like to watch tbone shoot I found this video of him at age 2 wow this is all ment if funn folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Remove the rule that allows both guns to be cocked at the same time. We all shoot four guns, name any other two that are allowed to be cocked at the same time. Pistol & rifle? Pistol & shotgun? Rifle & shotgun? Someone earlier was striving for consistency, there's consistency for you; only one gun cocked at a time, PERIOD. (Having said that, I LOVE watching T-Bone shoot ) Oh great...now I've got to watch and make sure that the first gun was shot before the next one was cocked...and then again...maybe it's okay to have the hammer falling when the next gun is cocked...but is it cocked all the way or just in the process of being cocked... For gawdz sake folks...I've never thought that this was such a big fricken issue...which leads me to say... OY!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Oh great...now I've got to watch and make sure that the first gun was shot before the next one was cocked...and then again...maybe it's okay to have the hammer falling when the next gun is cocked...but is it cocked all the way or just in the process of being cocked... For gawdz sake folks...I've never thought that this was such a big fricken issue...which leads me to say... OY!!!!! both hammers fully cocked would be easier for the TO to police then split time aguements as always your oy's will vary LOL LOL LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 We will be shooting GOA this weekend.....Lassiter does a real cool thing....he has a posse mostly made up of gunfighters.....and some fast ones....besides Lassister we have Widdermaker Hill, Bad River Marty, Cripple Creek Kid, Split Rail, Stone Creek Drifter to name a few and I know I left someone out...sorry......and there is the likes of me as well. Gunfighters can follow a gunfighter shooting and maybe that's the answer.....have GF's spot for Gf's....just a thought. I can tell you that I have a hard time spotting for the speed demons like Duece, Black Tom, Colt, Badlands, etc. but they can spot for each other.....and even though Lassiter and Marty shoot pretty fast I kinda know how a gunfighter would shoot most sequences and it makes it easy. The other control might be to have the TO ask the shooter how he is planning on shooting it, so if he is splitting the pistols and shooting 1 and 4 as an example then it would be easier to follow. There's nothing greater for me than to see a proficient GF like Lassiter or Marty artistically shoot a stage....it's a thing of beauty. I guess I don't understand why people have difficulty counting to ten instead of five and five....it's not that hard...just a different mind set.....just pretend that the gun has 10 shots....hell, with Duece it's almost like ten continuous shots as his time between pistols is incredible. Just my too scents. |KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Mike SASS #38824 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 both hammers fully cocked would be easier for the TO to police then split time aguements as always your oy's will vary LOL LOL LOL and you think a TO on stages with props and/or movement is going to be able to watch the hammers (obscured part of the time by thumbs) on two seperate guns that do not have to be in the same proximity of each other to make sure they are not cocked at the same time??? Good luck on that one .... At least with the existing rule, it allows both the RO and spotters to make a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Howdy Madd Mike, I never had to carry a card to identify myself as a qualified Gunfighter. However, it was requested I shoot Double Duelist for six months prior to shooting gunfighter. Been shooting Gunfighter since July 2003, alternate cocking & firing (most the time). Now my pard Widder shows up for his first CAS match and I'm the posse leader/ TO. He shoots a couple stages DBL.Duelist and asked if he can try Gunfighter. I suggested he stick with DBL. Duelist for the 1st match and next work day show us his ability to shoot Gunfighter. Well, he shot Gunfighter at his 2nd match & the rest is history. Widder was a shooter & gun owner long before he joined SASS. Hasta Luego, Keystone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Remove the rule that allows both guns to be cocked at the same time. We all shoot four guns, name any other two that are allowed to be cocked at the same time. Pistol & rifle? Pistol & shotgun? Rifle & shotgun? Someone earlier was striving for consistency, there's consistency for you; only one gun cocked at a time, PERIOD. I had a whole bunch of passonate words that I just deleated and am replacing it with.............. HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!! Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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