double cockers

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

...I've also seen several U Tube clips of a gunfighter shooting closely spaced double tap targets fireing simultaneously. Cute. Lots of wows and applause and cheers from the spectators. Not Acceptable. P and five misses...

 

Hi CC,

 

I saw one of those videos. It might seem on the surface. However, I hope that shooter has rethought his actions. He's a good, well-respected guy and should set an example, not be flaunting the rules.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

One of the giants in our sport.

 

 

 

Yup, give him a "P"

(said tongue-in-cheek)

--Dawg

[Madd Mike #8595]

Mad mike if you read my post you would see i dont double cock and dont condone people trying to cheat or find loopholes around the rules. Personally i think people who try to find loopholes are worse than people who cheat.

 

I dont tell people how to shot so im not going to say dont double cock. As long as someone is safe and isnt going against the rules i dont care how they shoot.

 

But the plain simple fact is shooting as fast as you can with both hands will sometimes sound as one.

 

 

I am a gunfighter, so I purposly dont shoot a fast as even single handed shooters

why

I want to win, the right way

 

what is the fix

I keep asking that

if, allowing both pistols to be shot at the same time

is the fix

then what do we do with

target pistol order

always, declare that the shooter gets the benit of the doubt

then move on

 

that is a serious question, that is NOT being addressed

 

what is the fix

paint before each and every gunfighter only?

paint before every shooter, for fairness?

 

I am not stirring the pot

I want a gunfighter a successful result to this delimia

besides

those that abide by the rule

those that dont

and those that dont, that ??????????????

may use thier position in the posse and club

to git away with (*&^^%$$#

 

mileage thing again

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

If we are to only pay attention to the first and last shot recorded on the timer

because of Phantom shots being picked up from other stages.How do you know the last shot fired

was from your shooter and not from another posse?I try to watch the timer close and if I have too many (say 25 shots) I review and subtract one shot...this would not work every time

[Blastmaster]

If we are to only pay attention to the first and last shot recorded on the timer

because of Phantom shots being picked up from other stages.How do you know the last shot fired

was from your shooter and not from another posse?I try to watch the timer close and if I have too many (say 25 shots) I review and subtract one shot...this would not work every time

 

 

Good, if you know how to backspace.

 

Just look at the timer display the last few shots to know.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

One thing about T-Bone and that video...He will tell you before he shoots to give him

a "p" and then blasts away

[T-Bone SASS #36388]

Y'all done went and drug my fat ass off into the water. I was being very quite just to see how thing played out. To start with the two videos shown are at the Mose N Bellas Outlaw Championships in Ky. By the way we had a great time.. Sure,,, give me a """P"" for what? Before You go giving out penalties and speakin' instead of listen' maybe You should know what's going on and the rules of that match.. I have shot Classic for 9 years now. I have won 7 World Titles was not able to compete the other two years.... I have helped, spoke and done as much as one can do to promote the game.....Now Y'all done drug me into the water and I can't swim...

I am supposed to shoot in a manner to help facilitate counters RIGHT?????? I tell the counters what I'm doing before I start to shoot I also say " I'm gonna tell Ya what I'm doing because You ain't gonna believe what Ya see " That is said to HELP FACILITATE the counters in spotting. Notice in the videos I am shooting different target at different times.... example---P1 and p5----p2 and p4----p3 and p3 or p1 and p3 and p2--P3 and P3--p4 and p3--p5 and p3... The rules were clear for outlaw and I followed them...

Make some more rules against cowboys stopping what they are doing to watch someone else... Make more rules against someone who can pull both guns aim at two targets on opposite sides of the berm and hit them at the same time... You have no problem with calling the miss..... Make up some more rules and say You can't shoot simultaneously IF that is possible... 2 Guns integrally working the exact same, 2 hammers hitting the firing pin at and going at the exact time, 2 bullets hand loaded going off at the exact same time, with no difference in speed, 2 human hands that are Finely tuned and calibrated to pull the trigger at the exact time and put that all together with 2 targets that are set at different [[distance]] locations in the bay.... AND You say I can do all that at the same time !!!!!!!

If You want to count shots--- no problem count for eveyone not just the gunfighter.... If the clock does not have enough shots on it[[[[by all means make a rule and give the shooter a P ]]] If the clock has too many shots on it [[[by all means, make a rule and take a shot or two off]]]] You know where does it end?????

Bottom line is ,,we have rules,, read them and on your range make a ruling on the fuzzy areas. Some other ranges read them differently or interpret the rule differently....Make up another rule and change it again...We have ennough rules..... More rule/laws for some shooters to follow !!!!! I will play however YOU make UP new rules......I will still have fun!!!!!

It's terrible that a match director has to call PWB for a rules clarification during a match....

I am honored Y'all are all watching my videos..... Goodday.....T-Bone Dooley

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

While changing leads I have, on occasion, got two shots very close together. I could tell they were not simultaneous, but have had spotters "think it was too close together" or "could barely tell", and assess a P or miss. As subjective as scoring is, BOD is important. I have to admit that I can't discern when T Bone is shooting, but is is a hoot to watch. Bob Munden (and others) have videos breaking two balloons with only one discernible shot. Old ears like mine should not be spotting for super fast shooters. The clang of the first shot might be conflicting with the bang of the second.

 

CR

[evil dogooder]

Y'all done went and drug my fat ass off into the water. I was being very quite just to see how thing played out. To start with the two videos shown are at the Mose N Bellas Outlaw Championships in Ky. By the way we had a great time.. Sure,,, give me a """P"" for what? Before You go giving out penalties and speakin' instead of listen' maybe You should know what's going on and the rules of that match.. I have shot Classic for 9 years now. I have won 7 World Titles was not able to compete the other two years.... I have helped, spoke and done as much as one can do to promote the game.....Now Y'all done drug me into the water and I can't swim...

I am supposed to shoot in a manner to help facilitate counters RIGHT?????? I tell the counters what I'm doing before I start to shoot I also say " I'm gonna tell Ya what I'm doing because You ain't gonna believe what Ya see " That is said to HELP FACILITATE the counters in spotting. Notice in the videos I am shooting different target at different times.... example---P1 and p5----p2 and p4----p3 and p3 or p1 and p3 and p2--P3 and P3--p4 and p3--p5 and p3... The rules were clear for outlaw and I followed them...

Make some more rules against cowboys stopping what they are doing to watch someone else... Make more rules against someone who can pull both guns aim at two targets on opposite sides of the berm and hit them at the same time... You have no problem with calling the miss..... Make up some more rules and say You can't shoot simultaneously IF that is possible... 2 Guns integrally working the exact same, 2 hammers hitting the firing pin at and going at the exact time, 2 bullets hand loaded going off at the exact same time, with no difference in speed, 2 human hands that are Finely tuned and calibrated to pull the trigger at the exact time and put that all together with 2 targets that are set at different [[distance]] locations in the bay.... AND You say I can do all that at the same time !!!!!!!

If You want to count shots--- no problem count for eveyone not just the gunfighter.... If the clock does not have enough shots on it[[[[by all means make a rule and give the shooter a P ]]] If the clock has too many shots on it [[[by all means, make a rule and take a shot or two off]]]] You know where does it end?????

Bottom line is ,,we have rules,, read them and on your range make a ruling on the fuzzy areas. Some other ranges read them differently or interpret the rule differently....Make up another rule and change it again...We have ennough rules..... More rule/laws for some shooters to follow !!!!! I will play however YOU make UP new rules......I will still have fun!!!!!

It's terrible that a match director has to call PWB for a rules clarification during a match....

I am honored Y'all are all watching my videos..... Goodday.....T-Bone Dooley

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A GREAT BIG +1!!!!

[Marauder SASS #13056]

I generally agree that we don't need more rules. In force the once we have fairly - and T-Bone Ol Pard, that would give you a P.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hey Folks,

 

Check out the "watts the call" thread. PWB said "intentionally" firing both guns at the same time is a SOG. The following is taken from Post 7 on that thread.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who doesn't feel more rules are needed, just follow the ones we have" Mo

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Madd Mike #8595, on 02 August 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

pistols during a stage

5 each large lolly pop candy suckers, (dang near point blank range)bout one foot

and one large, close, dump target

 

"engage the lolly pops first, break all lolly popps, with remaining rounds engage the dump plate"

misses on the candy are NOT misses,>>>>> un broken lolly pop candy are misses

misses on the dump plate are misses

 

A gunfighter purposely engages the lolly pops, discharging both pistols at the same time, on the each lolly pop

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

10- SECOND PENALTIES

Procedural Penalties

Any unintentional procedural errors caused by “brain fade,” confusion, ignorance, or mistakes (not to exceed one for any given stage).

•

...

• Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing.

 

 

 

Quote

 

FAILURE TO ENGAGE/SPIRIT OF THE GAME

30-Second Penalty

• Willfully shooting a stage other than the way it was intended in order to gain a competitive advantage.

 

 

REF: RO1 p.25

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

PS As Outlaw is not a SASS category, its rules are whatever the MD or host club says they are. I'm sure T-Bone would play by the rules of the match he was attending.

 

PPS I thought this thread was a discussion of current practices and rules.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Let's put some 'realism' in our assesment of the rules. As an ROII if Tbone Dooley comes up and says, "Brother King, I'm gonna shoot 1/5 right 2/3 left, cross my hands on 4/6 and run the stage in 10 seconds". Then I'm gonna say, "Shooter ready?" give him a beep and be dang proud to be on the same stage when he does it.

 

All the rules arguing is fine here on the wire. Now go to any shoot, make the call and watch it get overturned as soon as it is protested. The 'shoe rule' is already null in CO. The 'leather rule' made CA a battleground. Make a call on the 'simultaneous gunfighter' rule after a rockin' stage like the video and watch 3 spotters all duck and one say he definitely heard 10 shots....BOD... as soon as the MD can get called over.

[Noz]

TBone does not live in the same universe as I. I have seen him do the double sweep from each end. I still don't believe it. He did warn us that he was gonna do it though.

 

Gunfighters are fun to watch. I will not spot for them though. Somebody else can take the heat.

[Rocky Meadows, SASS#18501]

I don'r even know where to start so I am not going to. I'l just say, Goody, Possum, T-Bone.....I'm right there with them.

[Dodger]

I've set back and watched all the fur and feathers fly.

But I can no longer keep quiet on this matter.

 

Let's first look at the said rule. Quoted twice exactly the same way.

In the Shooters Handbook p13. and ROII p9.

- When shooting with two guns, both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring.

 

 

It does not say or even implied forbidden or outlawed.

Read the whole statement, "but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring."

The statement does not stop at "one at a time" it continues to say " to facilitate scoring."

 

Now shall we proceed to the definition of FACILITATE: to make something easy or easier to do.

 

Is the shooter shooting to make it easy on the spotter to count? Is the shooter shooting to make it easier on the TO?

No, the shooter is shooting to put all the bullets down range as fast as possible and as many on target and in the right order, as possible.

 

Does full house black powder make it easy for spotters to see or even hear hits or misses? Does a shooter running sub fifteen second stages make it easy on spotters? NO and it isn't easy for the shooter either. Shooting gunfighter to begin with isn't easy. But then shoot both pistols at the same time or as tightly staggered as possible gets even harder.

 

 

If a Gunfighter chooses to, or even accedentally simultaneously discharges both firearms, it is up to the spotters to make the determination:

1. did the shooter hit the intended targets?

2. did the shooter hit the intended targets in the right order?

3. and give penalties based on those two things.

 

 

Now everybody loves what we remind spotters of.

If you think it is a hit, it is a hit

If you know it is a miss, it is a miss

If you think it is a miss, it is a HIT!

 

Then at that point the shooter takes what the spotters give.

Nothing more nothing less, and I would bet no matter what, that gunfighter just walked to the unloading table with the biggest grin, saying, "didya just see that!"

 

So there is no was this can be be a 10 second penalty for:

 

 

[Dodger]

I've set back and watched all the fur and feathers fly.

But I can no longer keep quiet on this matter.

 

Let's first look at the said rule. Quoted twice exactly the same way.

In the Shooters Handbook p13. and ROII p9.

- When shooting with two guns, both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring.

 

 

It does not say or even implied forbidden or outlawed.

Read the whole statement, "but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring."

The statement does not stop at "one at a time" it continues to say " to facilitate scoring."

 

Now shall we proceed to the definition of FACILITATE: to make something easy or easier to do.

 

Is the shooter shooting to make it easy on the spotter to count? Is the shooter shooting to make it easier on the TO?

No, the shooter is shooting to put all the bullets down range as fast as possible and as many on target and in the right order, as possible.

 

Does full house black powder make it easy for spotters to see or even hear hits or misses? Does a shooter running sub fifteen second stages make it easy on spotters? NO and it isn't easy for the shooter either. Shooting gunfighter to begin with isn't easy. But then shoot both pistols at the same time or as tightly staggered as possible gets even harder.

 

 

If a Gunfighter chooses to, or even accedentally simultaneously discharges both firearms, it is up to the spotters to make the determination:

1. did the shooter hit the intended targets?

2. did the shooter hit the intended targets in the right order?

3. and give penalties based on those two things.

 

 

Now everybody loves what we remind spotters of.

If you think it is a hit, it is a hit

If you know it is a miss, it is a miss

If you think it is a miss, it is a HIT!

 

Then at that point the shooter takes what the spotters give.

Nothing more nothing less, and I would bet no matter what, that gunfighter just walked to the unloading table with the biggest grin, saying, "didya just see that!"

 

So there is no was this can be be a 10 second penalty for:

 

 

[Dodger]

I've set back and watched all the fur and feathers fly.

But I can no longer keep quiet on this matter.

 

Let's first look at the said rule. Quoted twice exactly the same way.

In the Shooters Handbook p13. and ROII p9.

- When shooting with two guns, both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring.

 

 

It does not say or even implied forbidden or outlawed.

Read the whole statement, "but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring."

The statement does not stop at "one at a time" it continues to say " to facilitate scoring."

 

Now shall we proceed to the definition of FACILITATE: to make something easy or easier to do.

 

Is the shooter shooting to make it easy on the spotter to count? Is the shooter shooting to make it easier on the TO?

No, the shooter is shooting to put all the bullets down range as fast as possible and as many on target and in the right order, as possible.

 

Does full house black powder make it easy for spotters to see or even hear hits or misses? Does a shooter running sub fifteen second stages make it easy on spotters? NO and it isn't easy for the shooter either. Shooting gunfighter to begin with isn't easy. But then shoot both pistols at the same time or as tightly staggered as possible gets even harder.

 

 

If a Gunfighter chooses to, or even accedentally simultaneously discharges both firearms, it is up to the spotters to make the determination:

1. did the shooter hit the intended targets?

2. did the shooter hit the intended targets in the right order?

3. and give penalties based on those two things.

 

 

Now everybody loves what we remind spotters of.

If you think it is a hit, it is a hit

If you know it is a miss, it is a miss

If you think it is a miss, it is a HIT!

 

Then at that point the shooter takes what the spotters give.

Nothing more nothing less, and I would bet no matter what, that gunfighter just walked to the unloading table with the biggest grin, saying, "didya just see that!"

 

So there is no was this can be be a 10 second penalty for:

Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing.

 

or even a spirit of the game.

 

So please spotters and everybody have fun that is why we do this!

 

Dodger

 

 

[Dodger]

I apologize for the multiple hit on this post. Computer operator did something crazy.

Dodger.

[T-Bone SASS #36388]

If I was a pool shark !!!!!! and !!!! I call every shot that I make before the cue hits the ball!!!!! and !!!! if the ball goes in the correct pocket... Would I get a penalty?????? or a check for the win?????

 

Allie, I lost the overall indoor championship in Vegas one year because I asked for a " P " before the timer started.. I was still happy,,,,BUT I just had to do it my way....and for that I got the penalty....

 

Brother King, I'm just speechless when I listen to your writing'

 

Marauder,,, I will gladly take the " P " and move onto the next stage...with a smile.....

 

 

How about lets make a new rule.... as long as Your not winning it doesn't matter....

 

I shot the fastest pistol stage at EOT 4 times after Lassiter came up to Possum and told him about Double cockers... I heard the rule -understood the rule and said""""Let's go to Texas"""" and shot every target on the stage wrong... I had fun,,,I did not win,,, and I am still here to talk about it....ask Possum ....Then I went and ran fastest speed shotgun with Nuttin' for 2 hours.... I guess You get what I'm trying to say---Time marches on !!!!

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Dear Brother and Dodger,

 

This stuff makes me so sad.

 

I adore TBone. However, I try to understand the rules as written and interpreted by the ROC and PWB. PWB has stated that simultaneous firing earns the shooter a penalty. If anyone, even TBone, is competing in the GF category under SASS rules, they need to follow those rules. (I wish folks would leave Outlaw stuff out of the discussion as it just confuses the issue at hand. Whatever anyone does as an "Outlaw" is according to that match's rules.)

 

If I went to a match and saw the GF simultaneous shooting call overruled, I would be even sadder.

 

Here's why, one simultaneous shot could be accidental and I would call a P according to current GF rules. If I saw five out of ten, I would assess a SOG like PW mentioned. If I wasn't sure on a second stage, where the shooter got a P on another stage, I would say two Ps = a SDQ and so forth under the Progressive Penalty rules. If this wasn't applied, I'd say the club wasn't operating under SASS rules and "If a Range Officer elects not to penalize a shooter that has not complied with a rule, the effect is penalizing all other match participants that did comply."

 

Please understand that I am trying to encourage folks apply the rules in the spirit of "consistency is fair for all." If our "rules committee" says it is not okay, it isn't no matter how seeing it done is.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[T-Bone SASS #36388]

So now as an RO/TO w/ timer in hand calls for next shooter... The shooter is a Black Powder Shooter with Full house loads inside a small room.. When the shooter finishes the stage and I poll the spotters and they say """""man I don't know"""" should I give the shooter a Procedural for not shooting in manner to help FACILITATE the counters or should I say Clean because any doubt goes to the shooter.... Whats the call???

 

This has happened while I was a TO on a stage... I gave the shooter clean and asked the spotters to try and watch better please.... Was I wrong??? according to the definition of Facilitate.....

[Madd Mike #8595]

T-Bone and others

 

declaring that you are going to goof off, and happly accept any penalties is the cowboy way

 

purposly: disregarding a gunfighter rule, then argueing for benifit of the doubt as a badd habit:::::::::::::::::::: more than once

shame on the shooters that do that

it dont matter if yer winnin er not

 

at a rank point match, if you are not awarded a earned penalty,

you affect every sigle person

that was a 1/100000000000000000000000000000th

slower than you waz on that stage

 

oh well

 

I am still not getting feed back

What is the rule fix that would fix this problem?

when

safety (total shots fired count)

&

how to determin proper target order is applied

without

shooters abusing, the when in dought statement

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

 

I like winning a match overall as a gunfighter, and I have won many a shoot thatta way, some annual shoots too

so what if (joseB) chose to

shoot black powder (super loads for smoke) as a gunfighter,

and

then

shot both pistols at the same time

then

argued at each stage for the doubt thing

geeeeese

folks would not like that shooter much

 

that is what this is about, as there are shooters like that

counters when asked volentarly saying (benifit of the dought)

is far different

then a well spoken shooter, insists to many times, and never gits called out, cuz folks just want ta have fun

mileage always varies

double shootin gunfighters put on a great show

save it for monthy shoots i guess?

not a state championship

[Blastmaster]

"If a Range Officer elects not to penalize a shooter that has not complied with a rule, the effect is penalizing all other match participants that did comply."

 

Please understand that I am trying to encourage folks apply the rules in the spirit of "consistency is fair for all." If our "rules committee" says it is not okay, it isn't no matter how seeing it done is.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Be sure to include MD in your statement above... If MD doesn't backup the RO's call, when the call is correct, then all other participants are penalized as well.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

So now as an RO/TO w/ timer in hand calls for next shooter... The shooter is a Black Powder Shooter with Full house loads inside a small room.. When the shooter finishes the stage and I poll the spotters and they say """""man I don't know"""" should I give the shooter a Procedural for not shooting in manner to help FACILITATE the counters or should I say Clean because any doubt goes to the shooter.... Whats the call???

 

This has happened while I was a TO on a stage... I gave the shooter clean and asked the spotters to try and watch better please.... Was I wrong??? according to the definition of Facilitate.....

Hi T-Bone!

 

I don't think you were wrong.

 

However, I think it is an "apples and oranges" thing. What I mean by that is that there is a rule against simultaneous firing. That should be a caution to folks.

 

Remember the match where I shot with you? Two counters called a BP shooter clean as they couldn't see anything to the contrary from where they were standing. I and the berm marshal were directly behind the target he hit in error, I gave him a P and the BM agreed. What a mess that turned out to be.

 

I guess we do the best we can with the rules we have and for the shooter...

 

Sincere regards,

 

Allie

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

T-Bone's video's are cool and I can only wish to shoot like that....awesome stuff indeed.

 

 

 

GG ~

[Ghost, SASS #50125]

T-Bone, you are one of the greatest shooters this game has known. But, you are a CLASSIC COWBOY, the first recipient of the CLASSIC COWBOY SHOOTIST AWARD. You are also a great showman, promoter, and supporter of the this sport. Many,many people look up to you because of your skill and enthusiasm.

Your ideas have revolutionised the game. Most people do not understand you because your to far ahead of them. Not your fault.

 

Think about this. Put on a special shooting act at the bigger matches(State, Regional,National,World) and dazal spectators will your skills. You are the "Showman". But....shoot the match as the Greatest CLASSIC COWBOY that every lived.

 

Your friend and Pardner,

Texas Ghost

[Madd Mike #8595]

perhaps we all need to lighten up a tadd bit

 

gunfighters doing holly wierd stuff rocks

no doubt

 

but how do we draw the line between

determining the unintended

smooth talken shooters

trying to WIN, doing that?

 

what is good for the whole of SASS / CAS

needs to be addressed

[DOCBRAZOS, SASS#18033L]

Since we have a Rattle Snake Rule maybe we need a T-Bone rule. Gunfighters get 6 spotters. 3 for each gun.

Many moons ago in a far off land we proved the timers we use today will not Pick up 3 separate shots fired in .12 seconds.

 

So the Mechanical box should not be the last word in # of shots fired. I can remember clubs that prohibited running but scored the Time to shoot a stage. Fast walkers won runners got SDQ's...........

 

But this sure is an Interesting thread!

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

T Bone is a big boy and can stand up for himself, but I gotta note that Outlaw is a different game with rules that are pretty loose. Most of us are here to have fun, and T Bone has gotta be having about the most fun of anybody I ever shot with. Why is it so hard to let go of what someone else is doing for fun??

 

CR

[Goody, SASS #26190]

I tried to warn ya Bone, but did you listen? NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

By the way, you seen Jack?

[evil dogooder]

Allie Mo

 

Consistency is all i am asking for. If a gf shot two rounds in under. 08 or whatever timers register and earned a P or SOG for it then to be consistent someone shooting two handed should be awarded the same penalty for two shots under. 08

Please correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that be the consistent thing?

[Madd Mike #8595]

Allie Mo

 

Consistency is all i am asking for. If a gf shot two rounds in under. 08 or whatever timers register and earned a P or SOG for it then to be consistent someone shooting two handed should be awarded the same penalty for two shots under. 08

Please correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that be the consistent thing?

 

when the gun fighter category was invented

it had a very rocky start

great pains went into writing the rules, and sass wanted as few rules as possible,

if yer gunna let two guns be fired at the same time, that is not consistent with anything either

 

consistent thing?

we are talkin bout gunfighter rules

not >outlaw or >two handed shooters or >classic >etc

lots of categories have special non-consistent rules

 

if ya all think the rules need changin

then go about changin em

do not just enforce what ya feel like, and blantly ignore the ones ya dont like

 

or

sass is going down the wrong rode

to last another three decades

;)

[Ringo Fire, SASS # 46037]

Ok, I've read all 100 responses. People seem to think that this thread was started by a double cocking Gunfighter whining about receiving an "un-deserved" penalty for shooting "simultaneously"!!! Out of all of these responses I noticed 2 shooters that I have personally witnessed shooting "simultaneously", respond on this thread. Neither of them has ever shot "simultaneously" at a State or above match. When they have shot that way, it was at a club match, an annual match where it was ruled ok to do so, or at a side match just for the heck of it. (Before anyone gets their back up about the side match thing, the one time I saw it happen, it entertained the MD so much he gave a sidematch award to the winner of both styles.)Both of these gentlemen shoot simultaneously because it's FUN!!!!! They also are talented enough to shoot gunfighter the conventional way, and do so when they shoot State and above matches in the GF category. Neither of these gentlemen or any other double cocking Gunfighter is complaining at all about being penalized for shooting that way!!! It's part of the risk/reward factor of shooting Gunfighter. Sometimes you get called for a miss you did'nt deserve, or a procedural, and sometimes you don't. Until we have professional counters and slow motion instant replay, that's the way it's going to stay. Does anybody out there remember a past multi- time World Champion Gunfighter named Badlands Ben? I shot with him many times, and he never shot simultaneously, and he shot fast enough that counters were constantly baffled!!! They had no idea if he hit the correct targets or not!!! The fact of the matter is Gunfighters have a different way of determining how to shoot a stage than someone shooting a stage using one pistol at a time, and unless a counter has ever shot in the gunfighter category, even a relatively slow gunfighter can easily baffle counters. There should be a class on how to count for Gunfighters. Now that being said, if there are some evil DCGF's out there whining, or bullying, because they were penalized they should lighten up and get over theirselves, they are in the wrong. There are no perfect people out there and mistakes will be made. If someone is penalized right or wrong take it and go on, I'm sure the call will go the other way for them eventually. As for all of the evil DCGF's I have yet to see one that wasn't willing to take the penalty if it was determined they earned one. By the way, I have seen a certain gunfighting Wild Bunch member shooting simultaneously on more than one occasion as well. (But only at an Annual match) The best argument I saw for not shooting simultaneously is by Buck D. Law on determining a squib. That makes sense! The rest......

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Mike, I and others WILL enforce the rules whether we like them or not. Please stop suggesting otherwise.

 

So, in summary:

If a gunfighter shoots two rounds that sound like one shot to at least two of the spotters he/she should get a "P".

If they do it on another stage it should be a "SDQ".

And on a third stage "MDQ".

 

If they do it with what?, a majority of shots?, it should be a "P" and "SOG" the first time out. Right? And progress from there. Got it.

 

No. I don't like the SUBJECTIVENESS of the rule, but I WILL enforce it for folks in the GUNFIGHTER category.