Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Should I Be DQ'd


Colt Faro, SASS #54579

Recommended Posts

OK everyone. I was there when this incident happened. The TO is NOT a goober, jerk, asshole, or any of the things he has been called here. He is a nice person, a good shooter, and not a gamer. What Colt does not know is that at the Friday shooters meeting handing ammo to another shooter was specifically mentioned as a no-no. I don't know how much experience he has as a timer, but he was going by what he heard. After the incident, he asked me if he was wrong about it. My reply was that TECHNICALLY he was right (about not handing ammo to someone else), but in practice no one would have a problem with a little help for a buckaroo who is having a meltdown. Chalk it up as a learning experience for an inexperienced timer. Not everyone is Palewolf Brunelle.

 

Was the actual rule pertaining to "handing ammo to another shooter" quoted during the shooters meeting?

 

The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e. NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) will be a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES. NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time.

 

According to the OP, there was NO VIOLATION of that rule...the ammo came from the shooter's belt.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 89
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I've shot with Colt and the Rattlesnake (Comin at Cha 2010) and they are both fine people. No quesiton about that. Both have 1st class reputations as shooters and gentlemen.

 

Helping a newbie is the right thing to do (especially a buckeroo) at all times.

 

Lets agree green RO made a mistake. However, he was not (as far as I can tell from the dicsussion) rude or mean, he was just wrong. It sounds like he even waited and expresses his (wrong) opinion at the unloading table.

 

I don't know about where you'all live, but around here green RO's only get experience by working the timer. Now that everyone agrees the RO made an error maybe we can also (gently) help the RO learn next time.

 

I would wager that all ROII's have made mistakes. It takes times and experience to be a get better. If green RO's get beaten up this badly for a mistake, then we can expect folks to refuse to learn.

 

Good on you Colt, well done helping out.

 

My 2-cents

GC

Link to post
Share on other sites

Was the actual rule pertaining to "handing ammo to another shooter" quoted during the shooters meeting?

 

 

 

According to the OP, there was NO VIOLATION of that rule...the ammo came from the shooter's belt.

All the ammo came from the shooters belt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know whether or not he's an RO. I'm not, but no one seems to mind when I time. Why was he timing? Someone had to, and I don't recall anyone else on the possee volunteering to do it early on. The man in question was usually the last or next to last to shoot because he was timing everyone else. He probably doesn't know all the rules. I don't. I prefer to go by common sense when in doubt.

I don't remember the EXACT words from the shooters meeting, but giving ammo to another shooter was definitly mentioned. Perhaps in another context from what happened. But, yes, TECHNICALLY what Colt did was probably in violation of something, but as we can see, no one seems to feel it was the WRONG thing to do(myself included). Right and wrong are frequently different from what is legal or illegal. Unfortunately.

I did not hear him threaten Colt with a DQ. If he did, he was wrong. I think he learned something from the incident. Isn't it time to let it go? He made a mistake. He does not deserve the insults I've seen directed at him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

.

Colt, I think you should get a "Get Out Of DQ" card!

Link to post
Share on other sites

so let me get this right --your shooters have to take classes .but your T.O./R.O. does not what am I missing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno...

If I'm helping someone out and another feller ask if I want DQ I'd be purty happy.

Unless they're just getting a Dilly Bar. A sundae or banana split though, thats good eat'in.

Chocolate covered cones are good too.

 

 

OK, I'd even take the Dilly Bar.

 

 

Colt, you done good helping the young shooter. Thats really the only thing that matters. As long as the young man had fun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reminds me of the time I was helping a very nice older man through the stages at local monthly matches. I think he took off his oxygen before he shot.

He generally did not finish the match due to his health and almost always finished last.

 

I reminded him of things throughout the stages, I guess I quietly coached him almost step by step sometimes. He set his rifle down and forgot to open the lever a few times so I reminded him. One time he opened it just a little and rather than call him back again I finished opening it the rest of the way as he moved to his shotgun. Some one commented, "Are you going to shoot the stage for him?"

 

I didn't respond and just ignored the comment. The old boy was obviously working as hard as he could and was evidently enjoying himself, although I didn't know him well.

 

I understand the need to be fair and try to be consistent in application of the rules. If this shooter had been even slightly competitive, I would have understood why anyone he beat would have felt abused. But I thought I was doing the right thing even though I did not know the entire situation.

 

A few months later, after his funeral, I learned the rest of the story. He had cancer and after being diagnosed he discovered SASS. He discovered cowboy shooting in the last year of his life. He made sure to rest all week so he could come to a match and shoot as many stages as his strength allowed. His wife said it really made his last days a pleasure in spite of the weakness and pain.

 

wow...

That heckler.... well... wow...

Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I read posts like this..and thankfully they are'nt all that common..the more I appreciate the Pards I shoot with locally.

'nuff said.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So no violation at all?

 

How about if someone stands next to.... I dunno... Deuce Stevens and saves HIM the trouble of getting the shells out of his belt?

 

Would you all still call an RO who wouldn't allow that names?

 

Somehow I think not. What is wrong with teaching the youngsters the RIGHT way to do it?

 

Folks.. by all means talk to people who get a bit "stiff" with the timer - and explain to 'em gently what it is you are concerned about... but don't call 'em names or abuse 'em. jeez!

 

How many folks are we going to have stepping up to take the timer if this sort of thing goes on? Not many I'd suggest.. Why volunteer to be abused? Ain't none of us being paid for it, ain't none of us perfect.

 

My concern is specially with those who tend to hang back when those duties are required of someone... and yet are the greatest critics/Monday morning quarterbacks. (Not sayin' anyone here is necessarily like that... but I sure have seen it in my years of CAS. Bet I'm not alone there either.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll say this, if I was DQ'd for what I did that would be one DQ I would always be proud of no if ands or buts about it. I would have no quams about taking another in the same circumstances. In other words I wouldn't change a thing on what I did.

 

where is the LIKE button!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

After following this for a couple of days, it seems every body missed the point. I think MDQ and turn in yer SASS card would be light punishment.

 

Lucky nobody hung ya!

 

Helping a kid - bah!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I jus gotta speak up. :D

 

Colt and I brought in our boys at an extemely young age, in this neck of the woods. They started shooting together. I am not sure of the ages, maybe 5,6 or 7 or 8. It don't matter. It was totally new to the few ranges we went to. There were some raised eyebrows and consternation. None of us had dealt with this before. I will will say that most shooters embraced it rather well. Texas Aline and Just A Hand of OakWood Outlaws come to mind. I like to think that Texas Aline set the base for the Buckeroo catagory. Be that right or wrong, she gave us latitude and direction.

 

We started out with our boys, shooting maybe 1-3 stages, 22's were bout all they could hold up. It was kind of new and a bit slow, lots of patience and we really made sure we helped the boys at almost every stage of the game. If a gun locked up or broke, we took if from them and lead them on through the stage. That was one of the rules, the parent/or guardian stayed with the shooter all the way through the stage, unless the Timer would do it. We loaded all the guns for them. All guns were staged, and pistols staged on a table and returned to the table. Later, after working with them, we let them holster pistols. Most times they did not shoot shotgun targets. Scores were kept for them. Yes, there were times, when a stern voice and strong hand guided the boys through some possible rough areas and maybe a fearful moment of "what could have happened" - but did not, thank God. Heck, we had never done this before and neither had the other shooters, we just wanted to be safe and not make people mad, but at the same time, show our boys something new and wonderful. Some folks may looked at them as oddities and maybe fear, some looked at them and wished they were their boys! There were various times that we had to physically help them to do something. Safety was paramount. There were days when the boys would shoot one stage and go play in the dirt or woods or chase gators for the rest of the day versus shooting. That did not always sit well with me, as the desire for my son to embrace this sport was abit tooo much sometimes. I think as parents, we would all love to see our kids embrace the same things that we enjoy. ...Hind sight says to let them play, do not shoot if they are not in the mood. Let them find their path. We are shooting real ammo and safety is number one. That being said, there are some older/new shooters that I, as a TO, would help in the same way.

 

So anytime we see a young shooter, we understand and will help to most any extent to help them shoot the stage.

 

An intersting observation, through helping our boys learn to shoot and handle stages, we were teaching ourselves!

 

 

Some folks thought it was kool, some thought it was a major distraction, maybe a waste of time, others saw the future, some wished they had done it with their kids, the whole range of human emotions and thoughts, all good, bad and indifferent.

 

 

Colt and I have seen it all, done it all, and as you can see Colt Faro is still doing it, the right way, the Cowboy way.

 

We are not the only ones doing this. There has always been Fathers and Mothers, GrandFathers and GrandMothers, Aunts and Uncles, that have brung in their girls and boys to share this sport that they enjoy to shoot. Ever hear of Bad Dog NONO? Justin Parker? Badlands Bud? Holley Terror? Shalako Joe? Badlands Ben?? Others that I cannot think of right now.....Rattlesnake is on the list now. They are all part of the past, present and future of this sport.

 

In the beginning there was no rules regarding them shooting. Just be safe. We made them up as we went along. The rules have evolved to where they are today, based on requests and direction from all levels of the sport.

 

This sport is famous for the "Family sport" but very few do the family part, due to most shooters are in the mid 50's and up and their kids are gone. We were brought in our boys because we wanted to share our enjoyment of this sport with them. Learning how to shoot and move and be safe, heck, it is a learned art, not something you pick up from the movies or computer games.

 

Kids learn quicker then us older folks, too. I like to think they have less baggage! :lol:

Also, younger shooters have NO FEAR OF MISSING or Procedures!! My gosh! Imagine what a release that is!!!!

 

When I came into this sport, every dang old timer, said the same thing. "SLOW DOWN" - "Your shooting tooo fast" - !! Do NOT MISS!!! What a load of krap. :lol:

 

The long and short of it, is that the majority of shooters and TO's have had very little contact with young shooters. Hence, the unknown, the uncomfortble feeling of "how do I call that?", "what if he/she loses control of the gun?" "How much should I help in pointing out the correct targets to shoot?", etc and etc... What is the answer? Have you pre-thought about it? Just be safe and do the course of fire to the best of their ability. When you see that smile at the end of the stage run, you know you did right.

 

 

Any ways, if you are a Timer Operator, you need to analyze the shooter coming onto the stage to shoot. That is of part of the job. You have to ask youself, what is their catagory, are they dressed correctly ( depends on the shoot ) are they experienced, fast, two-handed or one handed shooters, black powder shooter, young, old, extremely old, frail, slow, is their attitude good, Do they have the right equipment, do they have SHOTSHELLS?? Do they have the "deer in the headlights" look etc.. will they need assistance somewhere? What are some potential problems for this shooter??? Are they an experienced safe shooter...etc..

 

If your not sure how to handle them, ask.....Repeat - ASK them, "how much help do you need? "

 

You should never stop learning how to handle yourself and the situation surrounding you. This makes you a better shooter in many ways.

 

This is a great subject, to reach out and spread knowledge and good manners.

 

Many Cheers to you all,

Oklahoma Dee

Link to post
Share on other sites

So no violation at all?

 

How about if someone stands next to.... I dunno... Deuce Stevens and saves HIM the trouble of getting the shells out of his belt?

 

Would you all still call an RO who wouldn't allow that names?

 

Somehow I think not. What is wrong with teaching the youngsters the RIGHT way to do it?

 

Folks.. by all means talk to people who get a bit "stiff" with the timer - and explain to 'em gently what it is you are concerned about... but don't call 'em names or abuse 'em. jeez!

 

How many folks are we going to have stepping up to take the timer if this sort of thing goes on? Not many I'd suggest.. Why volunteer to be abused? Ain't none of us being paid for it, ain't none of us perfect.

 

My concern is specially with those who tend to hang back when those duties are required of someone... and yet are the greatest critics/Monday morning quarterbacks. (Not sayin' anyone here is necessarily like that... but I sure have seen it in my years of CAS. Bet I'm not alone there either.)

 

Respectfully - would you let your kid fall off a bike if you could stop it? You know he will, but a little guidance will give him the confidence to get it right a little sooner. A hand on the handlebar in the beginning is not a lifetime crutch. TOs need some learnin', too. Sounds as though more than one cowpoke benefitted from this stage.

 

CR

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I jus gotta speak up. :D

 

Colt and I brought in our boys at an extemely young age, in this neck of the woods. They started shooting together. I am not sure of the ages, maybe 5,6 or 7 or 8. It don't matter. It was totally new to the few ranges we went to. There were some raised eyebrows and consternation. None of us had dealt with this before. I will will say that most shooters embraced it rather well. Texas Aline and Just A Hand of OakWood Outlaws come to mind. I like to think that Texas Aline set the base for the Buckeroo catagory. Be that right or wrong, she gave us latitude and direction.

 

We started out with our boys, shooting maybe 1-3 stages, 22's were bout all they could hold up. It was kind of new and a bit slow, lots of patience and we really made sure we helped the boys at almost every stage of the game. If a gun locked up or broke, we took if from them and lead them on through the stage. That was one of the rules, the parent/or guardian stayed with the shooter all the way through the stage, unless the Timer would do it. We loaded all the guns for them. All guns were staged, and pistols staged on a table and returned to the table. Later, after working with them, we let them holster pistols. Most times they did not shoot shotgun targets. Scores were kept for them. Yes, there were times, when a stern voice and strong hand guided the boys through some possible rough areas and maybe a fearful moment of "what could have happened" - but did not, thank God. Heck, we had never done this before and neither had the other shooters, we just wanted to be safe and not make people mad, but at the same time, show our boys something new and wonderful. Some folks may looked at them as oddities and maybe fear, some looked at them and wished they were their boys! There were various times that we had to physically help them to do something. Safety was paramount. There were days when the boys would shoot one stage and go play in the dirt or woods or chase gators for the rest of the day versus shooting. That did not always sit well with me, as the desire for my son to embrace this sport was abit tooo much sometimes. I think as parents, we would all love to see our kids embrace the same things that we enjoy. ...Hind sight says to let them play, do not shoot if they are not in the mood. Let them find their path. We are shooting real ammo and safety is number one. That being said, there are some older/new shooters that I, as a TO, would help in the same way.

 

So anytime we see a young shooter, we understand and will help to most any extent to help them shoot the stage.

 

An intersting observation, through helping our boys learn to shoot and handle stages, we were teaching ourselves!

 

 

Some folks thought it was kool, some thought it was a major distraction, maybe a waste of time, others saw the future, some wished they had done it with their kids, the whole range of human emotions and thoughts, all good, bad and indifferent.

 

 

Colt and I have seen it all, done it all, and as you can see Colt Faro is still doing it, the right way, the Cowboy way.

 

We are not the only ones doing this. There has always been Fathers and Mothers, GrandFathers and GrandMothers, Aunts and Uncles, that have brung in their girls and boys to share this sport that they enjoy to shoot. Ever hear of Bad Dog NONO? Justin Parker? Badlands Bud? Holley Terror? Shalako Joe? Badlands Ben?? Others that I cannot think of right now.....Rattlesnake is on the list now. They are all part of the past, present and future of this sport.

 

In the beginning there was no rules regarding them shooting. Just be safe. We made them up as we went along. The rules have evolved to where they are today, based on requests and direction from all levels of the sport.

 

This sport is famous for the "Family sport" but very few do the family part, due to most shooters are in the mid 50's and up and their kids are gone. We were brought in our boys because we wanted to share our enjoyment of this sport with them. Learning how to shoot and move and be safe, heck, it is a learned art, not something you pick up from the movies or computer games.

 

Kids learn quicker then us older folks, too. I like to think they have less baggage! :lol:

Also, younger shooters have NO FEAR OF MISSING or Procedures!! My gosh! Imagine what a release that is!!!!

 

When I came into this sport, every dang old timer, said the same thing. "SLOW DOWN" - "Your shooting tooo fast" - !! Do NOT MISS!!! What a load of krap. :lol:

 

The long and short of it, is that the majority of shooters and TO's have had very little contact with young shooters. Hence, the unknown, the uncomfortble feeling of "how do I call that?", "what if he/she loses control of the gun?" "How much should I help in pointing out the correct targets to shoot?", etc and etc... What is the answer? Have you pre-thought about it? Just be safe and do the course of fire to the best of their ability. When you see that smile at the end of the stage run, you know you did right.

 

 

Any ways, if you are a Timer Operator, you need to analyze the shooter coming onto the stage to shoot. That is of part of the job. You have to ask youself, what is their catagory, are they dressed correctly ( depends on the shoot ) are they experienced, fast, two-handed or one handed shooters, black powder shooter, young, old, extremely old, frail, slow, is their attitude good, Do they have the right equipment, do they have SHOTSHELLS?? Do they have the "deer in the headlights" look etc.. will they need assistance somewhere? What are some potential problems for this shooter??? Are they an experienced safe shooter...etc..

 

If your not sure how to handle them, ask.....Repeat - ASK them, "how much help do you need? "

 

You should never stop learning how to handle yourself and the situation surrounding you. This makes you a better shooter in many ways.

 

This is a great subject, to reach out and spread knowledge and good manners.

 

Many Cheers to you all,

Oklahoma Dee

 

 

 

Forget the "Like" button......where's the "Stand up and Cheer" button?

 

Chick

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Dee,

Very well put. As you well know I have been there done that with my Grandson. He won the VA. State Buckaroo when he had just turned 9. Wish I could still shoot with him and my Son. Oh well one of the hardships of being a Dad of career Military Kids.

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I jus gotta speak up. :D

 

Colt and I brought in our boys at an extemely young age, in this neck of the woods. They started shooting together. I am not sure of the ages, maybe 5,6 or 7 or 8. It don't matter. It was totally new to the few ranges we went to. There were some raised eyebrows and consternation. None of us had dealt with this before. I will will say that most shooters embraced it rather well. Texas Aline and Just A Hand of OakWood Outlaws come to mind. I like to think that Texas Aline set the base for the Buckeroo catagory. Be that right or wrong, she gave us latitude and direction.

 

We started out with our boys, shooting maybe 1-3 stages, 22's were bout all they could hold up. It was kind of new and a bit slow, lots of patience and we really made sure we helped the boys at almost every stage of the game. If a gun locked up or broke, we took if from them and lead them on through the stage. That was one of the rules, the parent/or guardian stayed with the shooter all the way through the stage, unless the Timer would do it. We loaded all the guns for them. All guns were staged, and pistols staged on a table and returned to the table. Later, after working with them, we let them holster pistols. Most times they did not shoot shotgun targets. Scores were kept for them. Yes, there were times, when a stern voice and strong hand guided the boys through some possible rough areas and maybe a fearful moment of "what could have happened" - but did not, thank God. Heck, we had never done this before and neither had the other shooters, we just wanted to be safe and not make people mad, but at the same time, show our boys something new and wonderful. Some folks may looked at them as oddities and maybe fear, some looked at them and wished they were their boys! There were various times that we had to physically help them to do something. Safety was paramount. There were days when the boys would shoot one stage and go play in the dirt or woods or chase gators for the rest of the day versus shooting. That did not always sit well with me, as the desire for my son to embrace this sport was abit tooo much sometimes. I think as parents, we would all love to see our kids embrace the same things that we enjoy. ...Hind sight says to let them play, do not shoot if they are not in the mood. Let them find their path. We are shooting real ammo and safety is number one. That being said, there are some older/new shooters that I, as a TO, would help in the same way.

 

So anytime we see a young shooter, we understand and will help to most any extent to help them shoot the stage.

 

An intersting observation, through helping our boys learn to shoot and handle stages, we were teaching ourselves!

 

 

Some folks thought it was kool, some thought it was a major distraction, maybe a waste of time, others saw the future, some wished they had done it with their kids, the whole range of human emotions and thoughts, all good, bad and indifferent.

 

 

Colt and I have seen it all, done it all, and as you can see Colt Faro is still doing it, the right way, the Cowboy way.

 

We are not the only ones doing this. There has always been Fathers and Mothers, GrandFathers and GrandMothers, Aunts and Uncles, that have brung in their girls and boys to share this sport that they enjoy to shoot. Ever hear of Bad Dog NONO? Justin Parker? Badlands Bud? Holley Terror? Shalako Joe? Badlands Ben?? Others that I cannot think of right now.....Rattlesnake is on the list now. They are all part of the past, present and future of this sport.

 

In the beginning there was no rules regarding them shooting. Just be safe. We made them up as we went along. The rules have evolved to where they are today, based on requests and direction from all levels of the sport.

 

This sport is famous for the "Family sport" but very few do the family part, due to most shooters are in the mid 50's and up and their kids are gone. We were brought in our boys because we wanted to share our enjoyment of this sport with them. Learning how to shoot and move and be safe, heck, it is a learned art, not something you pick up from the movies or computer games.

 

Kids learn quicker then us older folks, too. I like to think they have less baggage! :lol:

Also, younger shooters have NO FEAR OF MISSING or Procedures!! My gosh! Imagine what a release that is!!!!

 

When I came into this sport, every dang old timer, said the same thing. "SLOW DOWN" - "Your shooting tooo fast" - !! Do NOT MISS!!! What a load of krap. :lol:

 

The long and short of it, is that the majority of shooters and TO's have had very little contact with young shooters. Hence, the unknown, the uncomfortble feeling of "how do I call that?", "what if he/she loses control of the gun?" "How much should I help in pointing out the correct targets to shoot?", etc and etc... What is the answer? Have you pre-thought about it? Just be safe and do the course of fire to the best of their ability. When you see that smile at the end of the stage run, you know you did right.

 

 

Any ways, if you are a Timer Operator, you need to analyze the shooter coming onto the stage to shoot. That is of part of the job. You have to ask youself, what is their catagory, are they dressed correctly ( depends on the shoot ) are they experienced, fast, two-handed or one handed shooters, black powder shooter, young, old, extremely old, frail, slow, is their attitude good, Do they have the right equipment, do they have SHOTSHELLS?? Do they have the "deer in the headlights" look etc.. will they need assistance somewhere? What are some potential problems for this shooter??? Are they an experienced safe shooter...etc..

 

If your not sure how to handle them, ask.....Repeat - ASK them, "how much help do you need? "

 

You should never stop learning how to handle yourself and the situation surrounding you. This makes you a better shooter in many ways.

 

This is a great subject, to reach out and spread knowledge and good manners.

 

Many Cheers to you all,

Oklahoma Dee

Very well said and eloquently put Mr. Oklahoma Dee! That needs to be in the Cowboy Chronicle hell maybe even the Shooters Hand Book!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.