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Should I Be DQ'd


Colt Faro, SASS #54579

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Ok I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I was in a situation where I was asked to help a Buckaroo Shooter through a match which I gladly did and would do again in a heartbeat. This young shooter has some experience shooting but is still working on some of the fundamentals of the game. He is not what I would consider an unsafe shooter at all. This was the first stage we shot of the match. The stage had 10 pistol and 8 shotgun no rifle. The young shooter shoots his pistols no problem. I am following him along just to make sure he is doing OK. I am not the TO. The shooter comes to the shotgun targets and he is shooting a 97. He stokes his 97 with about 6 rounds. He starts to engage the targets and the 97 won't feed so he ends up jacking them all out on the ground (dead rounds and were not retreived). He has enough shells in his belt to finish the stage. His gun wwill function if he loads one at a time but they are very difficult to get to and are sticking in his shotgun belt. I see he is having difficulty and step over to him and move his shotgun belt around so he can reach them better. He is still struggling getting the shells out and I see the muzzle waving around while he is trying to do this. He did not break the 170 by the way. I helped get his shells out of his belt for him and handed them to him so he could complete the stage safely. By the time I started helping he already had about 114 seconds racked up on the clock. The shooter proceeded to the unloading table and the TO told me that I should be DQ'd for helping him. OK if that's the case then I need to send back an award and it needs to go to the person who came in second.

 

Any thoughts?

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Ok I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I was in a situation where I was asked to help a Buckaroo Shooter through a match which I gladly did and would do again in a heartbeat. This young shooter has some experience shooting but is still working on some of the fundamentals of the game. He is not what I would consider an unsafe shooter at all. This was the first stage we shot of the match. The stage had 10 pistol and 8 shotgun no rifle. The young shooter shoots his pistols no problem. I am following him along just to make sure he is doing OK. I am not the TO. The shooter comes to the shotgun targets and he is shooting a 97. He stokes his 97 with about 6 rounds. He starts to engage the targets and the 97 won't feed so he ends up jacking them all out on the ground (dead rounds and were not retreived). He has enough shells in his belt to finish the stage. His gun wwill function if he loads one at a time but they are very difficult to get to and are sticking in his shotgun belt. I see he is having difficulty and step over to him and move his shotgun belt around so he can reach them better. He is still struggling getting the shells out and I see the muzzle waving around while he is trying to do this. He did not break the 170 by the way. I helped get his shells out of his belt for him and handed them to him so he could complete the stage safely. By the time I started helping he already had about 114 seconds racked up on the clock. The shooter proceeded to the unloading table and the TO told me that I should be DQ'd for helping him. OK if that's the case then I need to send back an award and it needs to go to the person who came in second.

 

Any thoughts?

you Should be applauded for helping him out.

Dusty

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new TO... comes to my mind.... :angry:

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DQ the TO.You did good.

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Ok I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I was in a situation where I was asked to help a Buckaroo Shooter through a match which I gladly did and would do again in a heartbeat. This young shooter has some experience shooting but is still working on some of the fundamentals of the game. He is not what I would consider an unsafe shooter at all. This was the first stage we shot of the match. The stage had 10 pistol and 8 shotgun no rifle. The young shooter shoots his pistols no problem. I am following him along just to make sure he is doing OK. I am not the TO. The shooter comes to the shotgun targets and he is shooting a 97. He stokes his 97 with about 6 rounds. He starts to engage the targets and the 97 won't feed so he ends up jacking them all out on the ground (dead rounds and were not retreived). He has enough shells in his belt to finish the stage. His gun wwill function if he loads one at a time but they are very difficult to get to and are sticking in his shotgun belt. I see he is having difficulty and step over to him and move his shotgun belt around so he can reach them better. He is still struggling getting the shells out and I see the muzzle waving around while he is trying to do this. He did not break the 170 by the way. I helped get his shells out of his belt for him and handed them to him so he could complete the stage safely. By the time I started helping he already had about 114 seconds racked up on the clock. The shooter proceeded to the unloading table and the TO told me that I should be DQ'd for helping him. OK if that's the case then I need to send back an award and it needs to go to the person who came in second.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Where in the Shooters' Handbook would this constitute a violation? I see nothing wrong with assisting a new shooter, especially a buckaroo, through a stage safely.

 

Buena suerte,

eGG

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you Should be applauded for helping him out.

Dusty

 

That's a 100% Yup - the TO definately is not into 'The Spirit of the Game' ~ IMHO of course...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Lets see...

First thought - your TO was/ is a jerk.

 

Second thought - You are not the shooter - YOU cannot be DQ'd for anything you are doing on the line.

 

Third thought - The most important job ANY of us have on the firing line is to "Safely Assist" the shooter thru the stage.

This shooter was having issues - adjusting the shooters equipment i.e. moving his belt is safely assisting.

Assisting the shooter with retrieving ammo is the only "questionable" thing you did and you mentioned that this was a Buckeroo shooter - we should ALWAYS give a little more latitude to the definition of safely assisting when it comes to our young shooters or, for that matter, ANYONE who requires a little more help.

I have TO'd stages or worked stages with my hand bunched up in the suspenders of a shooter who could hardly walk - I carried him thru the stage. I have held shotguns for shooters that could not hold them up and pull shells at the same time. I will do WHATEVER is needed to safely assist the shooter thru the stage. Anyone that wants to say you (or I) have done something wrong, is welcome to discuss it with my back - because I will not be listening.

The only thing that might have someone upset about your OP is, if you handed the shooter YOUR shells - as that would be illegally acquired ammo and would DQ the shooter - not you.

Don't worry about it.

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NO!!! No DQ. You did the right thing in helping and did it the right way.

 

BTW, thanks for helping him out.

 

As an aside, Colt, do you think he had fun at that match?

 

Possum

I couldn't speak for him on that Posssum. This young man has an excellent attitude and appears to make the best of all situations. He's a cowboy I'd ride with any day. As for the match.... do I really have to say where it was....

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The RO was a goober.

 

Now that is some wisdom for the ages. I love it.

 

I'm assuming this was at a monthly match, perfect place for teaching and getting new shooters acclimated.

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Was there a specific stage instruction that allowed the shotgun magazine to have more than two rounds?

 

"• Pump and lever action shotguns are allowed to load no more than two live rounds at a time

in the main match stages unless specified in the stage description. In team events, shotguns

may be loaded to their maximum magazine capacity."

 

 

As far as a DQ goes for helping a new shooter, I have never seen that one in the handbook. Someone needs to set the timer down.

 

Cheers,

BJT

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A lot of things come to mind – yeah; first of which the TO was a jerk. Hindsight being 20-20, you could have told the TO that you’ll be helping a new shooter through the stage so he knows there’ll be a second person in the immediate vicinity of the shooter (perhaps you did). The TO may have felt his authority to run the stage was being usurped by you being right there next to the shooter. You may have blocked his view of the shooter so he could not prevent / observe safety issues. It’s hard to get inside someone’s head from here no the wire. If you wish to put the matter to rest, ask for a get together with you, the match director and the TO to clear the air and ask the MD to make a ruling on the award. Obviously helping a new shooter is the right thing to do. Hopefully you can all put the matter behind you and the new guy continues to have a great time with CAS.

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Good on ya fer helping the kid out - sounds like he had a tough enough stage.

 

TO falls under the hard ass rule.

 

BTW - it woulda been a P for giving him your shotgun shells plus the misses, not a DQ..... been there, got that before.

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NO CALL

No further comment needed re: the T/O (I think it's all been said)

<_<

 

Good on ya fer helping the kid out - sounds like he had a tough enough stage.

 

TO falls under the hard ass rule.

 

BTW - it woulda been a P for giving him your shotgun shells plus the misses, not a DQ..... been there, got that before.

 

NO penalty there either...IMO ;)

 

"...helped get his shells out of his belt for him and handed them to him so he could complete the stage safely..."

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Agree with the jerk title.....must have been one of those "competitors" saying negatives about the young shooters. Stay with it Colt, you're doing a great job.

 

Not being there but sort of reading between the lines, I would say on of the lessons you were pointing out to him was the fact that he had to watch the muzzle in this adversity.

 

Beware The Snake!!!!!!!

 

bb

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...TO told me that I should be DQ'd for helping him. OK if that's the case then I need to send back an award and it needs to go to the person who came in second.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Oh, good grief!!!!! Where the $%$#@ do people come up with this stuff?

 

Good on you Colt.

 

Olen

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You did nothing wrong. When I first started the TO handed me an extra shell from his belt. No disqualification, just the acknowledgment that it wouldn't have been right in something more than a monthly.

 

The only issue I have is loading 6 in the shotgun before firing the first shot. I thought 2 is the maximum a shooter can load at any one time during a run.

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:FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm:

 

No call on you!

but loading six rounds in the '97 was wrong. :blush:The TO didn't ask XXX?.

 

Thanks for helping the young Pard. We need to get young folks into guns the right way.

 

MG

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Sea Cow!! Yer givin' GOOBERs a bad name!! and Phantom ain't lesdixec!

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Shoulda said I wouldn't have given him a P or the misses for getting shells from someone else - just let him know it wasn't a normally accepted practice. ;) I LOVE buckaroos/ettes at matches! They are really a lot of fun to watch.

 

Goobers, boogers and maroons - y'all crack me up!! :D

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Hey Colt,

First, Thanks again for helping to keep an eye out for Venom for me on Saturday. He told me about the problems he had on that stage with the 97 and that you tried to help him. I did not hear about the TO's comments to you at the unloading table. Sorry you had to deal with that, what ashame! Enjoyed shooting with you and Rattlesnake and Hey You. BTW Venom did have a good time at the match. Honestly, we have a good time at all the matches. He had the 97 lock up on him later in the match and wound up coming over to me to get "his" 97 that he had let his mother shoot that day, since she was shooting with us for the second time, and we were almost done by that time.

 

For others understanding:

I went up to Trailhead on Thursday to enjoy the side matches and all of the festivities. I shot the 5 main stages on Friday as scheduled. My wife (Jo Mama Crazy) and son (Venom) came up on Friday evening as soon as he got out of school. Venom, who is 12, has been shooting for almost a year, so he is pretty self sufficient, but he is still 12. This is only my wifes' second shoot, so she was content with just shooting the 5 remaining stages with me on Saturday. Venom is a competitor and wanted to shoot through, so he could compete. I had notified the crew at Gunsmoke of this ahead of time and they agreed to accomodate him without any issue. So I had asked my brother, who does not shoot with us yet, to come up and help Venom since he was going to be by himself. Also, on Saturday morning I saw that Colt and Rattlesnake Wrangler were shooting through also, so I asked Colt to help keep an eye out for Venom. Of course, Colt agreed to help in any way he could.

 

The stage in question specifically stated that 97 or 87's could be stoked on the clock. We had talked about this stage ahead of time and Venom decided to stoke on the clock. Unfortunately, it sounds like the hammer was following the bolt down everytime he pumped the shotgun when it was stoked. His shotgun belt is just small enough to fit him, (gave him some room to grow), so the shells wrap around to his back. He was trying to get the shells from behind him when this incident happened.

 

As for the match, we had a great time. We all missed a little more than other places, but still the targets were within reason. My wife did get a little frustrated, but she was shooting here second match and with a new rifle, that had a tang sight on it that she was not used to, and it seemed to be shooting a little low. But, she still had a good time and I don't think you should base a match on someone in her situation. Overall it was a fun match for us!

 

Thanks!

Wheelgun Luke

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Reminds me of the time I was helping a very nice older man through the stages at local monthly matches. I think he took off his oxygen before he shot.

He generally did not finish the match due to his health and almost always finished last.

 

I reminded him of things throughout the stages, I guess I quietly coached him almost step by step sometimes. He set his rifle down and forgot to open the lever a few times so I reminded him. One time he opened it just a little and rather than call him back again I finished opening it the rest of the way as he moved to his shotgun. Some one commented, "Are you going to shoot the stage for him?"

 

I didn't respond and just ignored the comment. The old boy was obviously working as hard as he could and was evidently enjoying himself, although I didn't know him well.

 

I understand the need to be fair and try to be consistent in application of the rules. If this shooter had been even slightly competitive, I would have understood why anyone he beat would have felt abused. But I thought I was doing the right thing even though I did not know the entire situation.

 

A few months later, after his funeral, I learned the rest of the story. He had cancer and after being diagnosed he discovered SASS. He discovered cowboy shooting in the last year of his life. He made sure to rest all week so he could come to a match and shoot as many stages as his strength allowed. His wife said it really made his last days a pleasure in spite of the weakness and pain.

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well Colt, as you clearly have no experience with young shooters it would probably be best if you just left him to struggle through it so he could go home to his X box. :lol:

sometimes i'm baffled by things i see or hear about on the range.

with 90k+ badges out there, some are bound to tarnish. i prefer to think this guy is confused over being an A hole. (benefit of the doubt ;) )but i wasnt there.

CC

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