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Should I Be DQ'd


Colt Faro, SASS #54579

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TO is definitely a nut, but I don't think he was a "competition" type. Just doesn't sound like someone who is "competitive" would do, especially since they are the ones who usually have to know the Rule Book the best. I wasn't there so I could be completely wrong but I don't think so. Some people are just grumpy.

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I reminded him of things throughout the stages, I guess I quietly coached him almost step by step sometimes. He set his rifle down and forgot to open the lever a few times so I reminded him. One time he opened it just a little and rather than call him back again I finished opening it the rest of the way as he moved to his shotgun. Some one commented, "Are you going to shoot the stage for him?"

Once again, I never cease to be amazed. If a shooter wants to be walked through a stage step by step, it is the RO's job to do that. A fast shooter can shoot a lot faster than I can talk. As far as the lever, if it wasn't closed, it was open. Even if the call was made that it was closed, it sounds as if he'd been better off with a MS than spending than taking the time to come back. Maruaduer, you did exactly what any decent TO/RO would have done in the same situation.

 

Regarding the OP, I seriously would hope that the TO/RO was kidding as just was terrible at making it appear so...but unfortunately, that is unlikely the case. We've all seen Barney Fife.

 

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Hey Colt,

First, Thanks again for helping to keep an eye out for Venom for me on Saturday. He told me about the problems he had on that stage with the 97 and that you tried to help him. I did not hear about the TO's comments to you at the unloading table. Sorry you had to deal with that, what ashame! Enjoyed shooting with you and Rattlesnake and Hey You. BTW Venom did have a good time at the match. Honestly, we have a good time at all the matches. He had the 97 lock up on him later in the match and wound up coming over to me to get "his" 97 that he had let his mother shoot that day, since she was shooting with us for the second time, and we were almost done by that time.

 

For others understanding:

I went up to Trailhead on Thursday to enjoy the side matches and all of the festivities. I shot the 5 main stages on Friday as scheduled. My wife (Jo Mama Crazy) and son (Venom) came up on Friday evening as soon as he got out of school. Venom, who is 12, has been shooting for almost a year, so he is pretty self sufficient, but he is still 12. This is only my wifes' second shoot, so she was content with just shooting the 5 remaining stages with me on Saturday. Venom is a competitor and wanted to shoot through, so he could compete. I had notified the crew at Gunsmoke of this ahead of time and they agreed to accomodate him without any issue. So I had asked my brother, who does not shoot with us yet, to come up and help Venom since he was going to be by himself. Also, on Saturday morning I saw that Colt and Rattlesnake Wrangler were shooting through also, so I asked Colt to help keep an eye out for Venom. Of course, Colt agreed to help in any way he could.

 

The stage in question specifically stated that 97 or 87's could be stoked on the clock. We had talked about this stage ahead of time and Venom decided to stoke on the clock. Unfortunately, it sounds like the hammer was following the bolt down everytime he pumped the shotgun when it was stoked. His shotgun belt is just small enough to fit him, (gave him some room to grow), so the shells wrap around to his back. He was trying to get the shells from behind him when this incident happened.

 

As for the match, we had a great time. We all missed a little more than other places, but still the targets were within reason. My wife did get a little frustrated, but she was shooting here second match and with a new rifle, that had a tang sight on it that she was not used to, and it seemed to be shooting a little low. But, she still had a good time and I don't think you should base a match on someone in her situation. Overall it was a fun match for us!

 

Thanks!

Wheelgun Luke

Wheelgun,

You know I think the world of you and Venom and I would do everything I did that day for Venom 50 times over and twice on Sunday without hesitation. Please don't ever hesitate to ask me for help anytime. Venom is an excellent young man and a very good shooter as well as a pleasure to be around. Rattlesnake and I consider it a privledge to shoot with you guys. As far as what was said to me, it was what it was, stupidity. I'm very glad you guys had a good experience there. I've always been one of those glass half full kind of personalities and I did my best to let go of it. In fact after some of the other things happened to me there I forgot all about it till I got home. Anyway, I'm looking forward to shooting this weekend at Fort Parker.

 

Colt

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well Colt, as you clearly have no experience with young shooters it would probably be best if you just left him to struggle through it so he could go home to his X box. :lol:

sometimes i'm baffled by things i see or hear about on the range.

with 90k+ badges out there, some are bound to tarnish. i prefer to think this guy is confused over being an A hole. (benefit of the doubt ;) )but i wasnt there.

CC

Yep I'm a newbee when it comes to Buckaroos!!! LMAO!!! That's what Rattlesnake keeps saying anyway...... NOT!

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Ok I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I was in a situation where I was asked to help a Buckaroo Shooter through a match which I gladly did and would do again in a heartbeat. This young shooter has some experience shooting but is still working on some of the fundamentals of the game. He is not what I would consider an unsafe shooter at all. This was the first stage we shot of the match. The stage had 10 pistol and 8 shotgun no rifle. The young shooter shoots his pistols no problem. I am following him along just to make sure he is doing OK. I am not the TO. The shooter comes to the shotgun targets and he is shooting a 97. He stokes his 97 with about 6 rounds. He starts to engage the targets and the 97 won't feed so he ends up jacking them all out on the ground (dead rounds and were not retreived). He has enough shells in his belt to finish the stage. His gun wwill function if he loads one at a time but they are very difficult to get to and are sticking in his shotgun belt. I see he is having difficulty and step over to him and move his shotgun belt around so he can reach them better. He is still struggling getting the shells out and I see the muzzle waving around while he is trying to do this. He did not break the 170 by the way. I helped get his shells out of his belt for him and handed them to him so he could complete the stage safely. By the time I started helping he already had about 114 seconds racked up on the clock. The shooter proceeded to the unloading table and the TO told me that I should be DQ'd for helping him. OK if that's the case then I need to send back an award and it needs to go to the person who came in second.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Yeah.....Tell the TO???????......where to stick the timer ..........and choose a different posse when ever he,she ,its around :angry: :angry:

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Colt, I was unable to attend Trail head this year :( but remember about five years ago, you did almost the same thing for my son who was a new 13 yr. old shooter and you will always have a Gold Star by your name in my book. PWB has already setteled this issue and I'd like to say thanks again for doing all you for cas. B)

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Stepnmud I'd do it again in a heartbeat for anyone. I'm lucky to have Pards like all you guys out there thanks everyone! I didn't really question what I did as wrong because I knew my heart was in the right place. So no matter what the consequnces for that would be I was prepared to deal with it.

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As some one who's goal it is this year to have at least one (if not two) buckaroos shoot with me, I am just stunned at the attitude of the TO. Did he honestly expect you to stand there and watch this young man have a major train wreck?

 

You very much did the right thing.

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The TO needs a good swift kick in the fanny!! And then explained a few things.

You DID GOOD! My hat is off to ya.

Young shooters, new shooters of any age, even us old farts who need a hand, should be extended the COURTESY of a bit of hospitality. Is or is not kinda what "Cowboy Up" is all about?

 

Knarley

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No good deed goes unpunished. Or so it seems sometimes. Just try being a club officer for a while! ;)

Ain't that the truth!!! Been there, done that!!!!

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Everything necessary has been said except-

 

 

The shooter was a Buckaroo. Help him!!!

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I couldn't speak for him on that Posssum. This young man has an excellent attitude and appears to make the best of all situations. He's a cowboy I'd ride with any day. As for the match.... do I really have to say where it was....

 

Dumb kids don't know that you're there to be hard-asses and to call P's, and DQ's on other shooters. They actually thing they are there to have fun.

 

What's that line from "Stripes?" Lighten up, Francis."

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I am glad to see everyone here has the same response to the buckaroo treatment, I have the same feelings and would not have even thought of giving a DQ.

 

I know of a MD that recently did something similar (giving a harsh penalty for something the newbie didn't even know about nor the mentor person mentoring that shooter din't know either) to a second time shooter newbie and at a plane old monthly match.. The newbie had last place all rapped up regardless if the penalty was given or not. :angry:

 

Blastmaster

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ABSOLUTELY NOT, Colt! Ya done good! :D:D:D

 

It's even in the rulebook; "safely assist the shooter" Aside from things we all know not to do (like handing a shooter more shotgun shells when he runs out) helping a shooter is perfectly ok and ENCOURAGED! Whomever this TO is, hopefully some helpful pards will corner him and explain a few things in a most positive light.

 

(And yeah, I'm shakin' me head and muttering some people jist don't get it) :blink:

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Hey Colt,

First, Thanks again for helping to keep an eye out for Venom for me on Saturday. He told me about the problems he had on that stage with the 97 and that you tried to help him. I did not hear about the TO's comments to you at the unloading table. Sorry you had to deal with that, what ashame! Enjoyed shooting with you and Rattlesnake and Hey You. BTW Venom did have a good time at the match. Honestly, we have a good time at all the matches. He had the 97 lock up on him later in the match and wound up coming over to me to get "his" 97 that he had let his mother shoot that day, since she was shooting with us for the second time, and we were almost done by that time.

 

For others understanding:

I went up to Trailhead on Thursday to enjoy the side matches and all of the festivities. I shot the 5 main stages on Friday as scheduled. My wife (Jo Mama Crazy) and son (Venom) came up on Friday evening as soon as he got out of school. Venom, who is 12, has been shooting for almost a year, so he is pretty self sufficient, but he is still 12. This is only my wifes' second shoot, so she was content with just shooting the 5 remaining stages with me on Saturday. Venom is a competitor and wanted to shoot through, so he could compete. I had notified the crew at Gunsmoke of this ahead of time and they agreed to accomodate him without any issue. So I had asked my brother, who does not shoot with us yet, to come up and help Venom since he was going to be by himself. Also, on Saturday morning I saw that Colt and Rattlesnake Wrangler were shooting through also, so I asked Colt to help keep an eye out for Venom. Of course, Colt agreed to help in any way he could.

 

The stage in question specifically stated that 97 or 87's could be stoked on the clock. We had talked about this stage ahead of time and Venom decided to stoke on the clock. Unfortunately, it sounds like the hammer was following the bolt down everytime he pumped the shotgun when it was stoked. His shotgun belt is just small enough to fit him, (gave him some room to grow), so the shells wrap around to his back. He was trying to get the shells from behind him when this incident happened.

 

As for the match, we had a great time. We all missed a little more than other places, but still the targets were within reason. My wife did get a little frustrated, but she was shooting here second match and with a new rifle, that had a tang sight on it that she was not used to, and it seemed to be shooting a little low. But, she still had a good time and I don't think you should base a match on someone in her situation. Overall it was a fun match for us!

 

Thanks!

Wheelgun Luke

OK, this post answered what I was thinking, where it was!!

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ABSOLUTELY NOT, Colt! Ya done good! :D:D:D

 

It's even in the rulebook; "safely assist the shooter" Aside from things we all know not to do (like handing a shooter more shotgun shells when he runs out) helping a shooter is perfectly ok and ENCOURAGED! Whomever this TO is, hopefully some helpful pards will corner him and explain a few things in a most positive light.

 

(And yeah, I'm shakin' me head and muttering some people jist don't get it) :blink:

Thank you Don! This past weekend made me miss Arizona soooo much let me tell you. Completely different world from Winter Range.

 

Colt

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Reminds me of the time I was helping a very nice older man through the stages at local monthly matches. I think he took off his oxygen before he shot.

He generally did not finish the match due to his health and almost always finished last.

 

I reminded him of things throughout the stages, I guess I quietly coached him almost step by step sometimes. He set his rifle down and forgot to open the lever a few times so I reminded him. One time he opened it just a little and rather than call him back again I finished opening it the rest of the way as he moved to his shotgun. Some one commented, "Are you going to shoot the stage for him?"

 

I didn't respond and just ignored the comment. The old boy was obviously working as hard as he could and was evidently enjoying himself, although I didn't know him well.

 

I understand the need to be fair and try to be consistent in application of the rules. If this shooter had been even slightly competitive, I would have understood why anyone he beat would have felt abused. But I thought I was doing the right thing even though I did not know the entire situation.

 

A few months later, after his funeral, I learned the rest of the story. He had cancer and after being diagnosed he discovered SASS. He discovered cowboy shooting in the last year of his life. He made sure to rest all week so he could come to a match and shoot as many stages as his strength allowed. His wife said it really made his last days a pleasure in spite of the weakness and pain.

Dang, my glasses just fogged up!

 

:wub:

 

Allie

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Hey Colt,

I guess you forgot where you were.

On stage 9 one of the shooters kicked out a round from the rifle. Well the TO picked it up and handed it to her. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Problem. I was spotting at the time and asked "What are you doing" TO " Just helping out" :rolleyes:

Wyandot

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OK everyone. I was there when this incident happened. The TO is NOT a goober, jerk, asshole, or any of the things he has been called here. He is a nice person, a good shooter, and not a gamer. What Colt does not know is that at the Friday shooters meeting handing ammo to another shooter was specifically mentioned as a no-no. I don't know how much experience he has as a timer, but he was going by what he heard. After the incident, he asked me if he was wrong about it. My reply was that TECHNICLLY he was right(about not handing ammo to someone else), but in practice no one would have a problem with a little help for a buckaroo who is having a meltdown. Chalk it up as a learning experience for an inexperienced timer. Not everyone is Palewolf Brunelle.

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OK everyone. I was there when this incident happened. The TO is NOT a goober, jerk, asshole, or any of the things he has been called here. He is a nice person, a good shooter, and not a gamer. What Colt does not know is that at the Friday shooters meeting handing ammo to another shooter was specifically mentioned as a no-no. I don't know how much experience he has as a timer, but he was going by what he heard. After the incident, he asked me if he was wrong about it. My reply was that TECHNICLLY he was right(about not handing ammo to someone else), but in practice no one would have a problem with a little help for a buckaroo who is having a meltdown. Chalk it up as a learning experience for an inexperienced timer. Not everyone is Palewolf Brunelle.

In that case he should not have told me he could DQ me for doing that. I knew what I was doing and if he is that inexperienced I guess it's twice as good that I was there to help the shooter safely through the course of fire.

And I hear what your saying Tell and I remember commenting to you and Angels about it after the fact. No harm done I was just making sure what I did was OK.

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Hey Colt,

I guess you forgot where you were.

On stage 9 one of the shooters kicked out a round from the rifle. Well the TO picked it up and handed it to her. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Problem. I was spotting at the time and asked "What are you doing" TO " Just helping out" :rolleyes:

Wyandot

I don't even want to comment on that you said enough right there. I rest my case.

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Hey Colt,

I guess you forgot where you were.

On stage 9 one of the shooters kicked out a round from the rifle. Well the TO picked it up and handed it to her. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Problem. I was spotting at the time and asked "What are you doing" TO " Just helping out" :rolleyes:

Wyandot

 

Illegally acquired ammunition. Page 25 RO I manual. a P and a MISS for every round fired. (only one P) Don't think it would be a minor safety because the SHOOTER didn't do it. P & MSV are the same 10 seconds so WTD? This is CLEARLY covered in the rules and had absolutely NO bearing on the original thread.

 

 

 

 

OK everyone. I was there when this incident happened. The TO is NOT a goober, jerk, asshole, or any of the things he has been called here. He is a nice person, a good shooter, and not a gamer. What Colt does not know is that at the Friday shooters meeting handing ammo to another shooter was specifically mentioned as a no-no. I don't know how much experience he has as a timer, but he was going by what he heard. After the incident, he asked me if he was wrong about it. My reply was that TECHNICLLY he was right(about not handing ammo to someone else), but in practice no one would have a problem with a little help for a buckaroo who is having a meltdown. Chalk it up as a learning experience for an inexperienced timer. Not everyone is Palewolf Brunelle.

 

TECHNICALLY? Nothing technical about it. RO was DEAD wrong. The aforementiioned rule would be (look up) that post. Dropped round, dead round. handing the shooter a round from YOUR belt? Illegal ammunition, gets a P and a miss. Assisting a bucakroo (or any shooter with a disability under the same circumstances OR, helping a shooter to maintain MUZZLE CONTROL by moving the belt and or helping him or her get the ammunition SAFELY out of THEIR OWN equipment) is PERFECTLY acceptable.

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Sorry, Tell, I've got a real problem here. Aside from being a hardass and not knowing how to treat a youngster, he needs to have read the rule book a few times. He may have been a green RO, but there's no way he could DQ Colt in this instance. And he THREATENED (?) to do it. If you're an RO, you make the call; you don't threaten someone. And, he was dead wrong. I think Colt was being nice. I would have asked the RO to show me what rule he was going to use to DQ me.

 

I carry all the handbooks in my cart. I may not be PaleWolf, but I can read and look up things.

 

I've got another question, too. What was a green RO doing with a timer during a club's major annual match?

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I'll say this, if I was DQ'd for what I did that would be one DQ I would always be proud of no if ands or buts about it. I would have no quams about taking another in the same circumstances. In other words I wouldn't change a thing on what I did.

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I'll say this, if I was DQ'd for what I did that would be one DQ I would always be proud of no if ands or buts about it. I would have no quams about taking another in the same circumstances. In other words I wouldn't change a thing on what I did.

 

 

The guy needs to get a life......isn't that kind of what this game is supposed to be all about......helping young shooters? I say you did good.

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