Quiet Burp Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 A match ago I had a newbie (first time shooting SA) and another member of our club had lent the newbie his firearms to use and was shadowing him through the entire stage. Handguns were staged first, then a move to the right for the staged rifle, then another move to right for the staged shotgun. After the newbie fired both pistols (5 rounds out of each and both empty) he placed them back onto the table (now the newbie was taking all this very slowly between movements which was good and what we had asked for) as he slowly started to move to the rifle stage the lender of the firearms who was shadowing the newbie and right next to him picked up the pistols and holstered them (to carry them holstered following the newbie through to the unloading table) newbie then shot his rifle stage, then his shotgun stage all the time shadowed by the lender and then to the unloading table where the lender unholstered the pistols onto the unloading table stepped back and let the newbie go and get the rifle first and then the shotgun and bring them to the unloading table and proceed to unload under the unloading table officer.. Was it ok for the lender to holster the newbies pistols to carry them through the stage to the unloading table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 10 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said: ... Was it ok for the lender to holster the newbies pistols to carry them through the stage to the unloading table? IMO...YES (all things considered). 16 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 As the TO I think I would prefer that the lender not holster the pistols until the newbie has finished the course of fire, in case there is a problem or question later in the stage. My preference. Imis 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 OP, have you attended any RO classes yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 While I don't think the described situation was unsafe in any way, I do think that it was quite poor practice. The TO's eyes are on the shooter and his/her gun handling only. Nobody else is supposed to handle guns on the stage, maybe even behind the TO's back! Although 10 shots have been shot, the pistols are not considered empty until declared empty at the ULT. Who was monitoring the holstering for sweeping, not breaking 170 etc.? Did the lender stand on the exact same firing line when holstering or were the pistols behind the shooter? Who's penalty is it if the gun drops? I certainly would have advised the lender to not touch any firearm again until the last round of the stage is shot and permission of the TO is given. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Was it "safer" for the Newbie to collect four firearms or have the Lender holster the revolvers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said: Was it "safer" for the Newbie to collect four firearms or have the Lender holster the revolvers? Have the lender holster the revolvers, but after the TO asks to collect all firearms. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 If I was TO, I would not call any penalties, but EP raises questions about what could happen to mess up a fun match. Chancy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I don't think the lender should have been that close to the shooter in the first place. Allow the TO and the shooter to run the stage. Lender picks up his firearms after they are cleared at the ULT. If I had been TO the lender would be back with the other spectators, or the club can get another TO. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 There's a whole big bunch of questions and what ifs on this one. I'd say too many for me to voice my opinion other than to say just from reading the OP it seems like the CLUB was trying to recruit a new shooter into SASS and kudos for that. One way to run a new prospective shooter off is to smack them upside the head with a bunch of rules (excluding safety rules. Smack them with those very hard and often). If I were being a rule Nazi I would start with, pistols started out staged but did the instructions say to restage them or did they give no restaging direction? If not, the default is for the pistols to go to leather before the next firearm is fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 As Nolan Ryan said, after being asked if he hit a batter intentionally, "Sometimes you just gotta take control of the situation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 It's a freaking newbie... This is not likely a shooter in the running for an overall or category win. Stage the pistols at position - restage them after shooting. Lender may retrieve firearms and move them to the unloading table in a muzzle up "malfunction" carry AFTER the stage is completed. And since I am the TO in this hypothetical situation - this IS the way it is going to go. Unless we are talking about a shooter new to SHOOTING/ firearms handling - or a child requiring extreme parental oversight; the only persons ON or crowding the firing line are me and the shooter. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 23 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said: As the TO I think I would prefer that the lender not holster the pistols until the newbie has finished the course of fire, in case there is a problem or question later in the stage. My preference. Imis This ^^^^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozark Huckleberry Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 When I was in Uncle Sam's canoe club, it was pretty standard that if there was anything out of the ordinary going on, everyone involved would get on the same page before it started as to who would do what, who wouldn't do what, and what everyone's expectations were. Sounds like this kind of situation might have benefitted from a little of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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