What is a good ball powder for .45 Colt? W231?

[Pat Riot]

I am truly sick of flake powders like Unique and Universal when trying to create accurate loads using my RCBS powder measure.
This morning using Universal to make up some Wadcutter test loads I was getting upwards of .2 grains difference with each throw of the lever. 
I use Winchester 244 for .38 Special .357 Magnum and 9mm. It was specially developed for those rounds. In .45 Colt and .45 ACP it’s very sooty.

W244 measures very nicely and accurately but it’s not for .45 caliber cartridges. 
How is W231 for .45 Colt and ACP loads? 

 

The loads I want a good powder for are going to be defensive and possibly even hunting loads. Not for plinking and such. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I use Win 231/HP-38 in .45 ACP. It works well. So does Bullseye, but it’s a bit smokier in my experience. 
 

An aquarium pump attached to the powder hopper helps settle powder with its vibration. 

[Pat Riot]

18 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I use Win 231/HP-38 in .45 ACP. It works well. So does Bullseye, but it’s a bit smokier in my experience. 
 

An aquarium pump attached to the powder hopper helps settle powder with its vibration. 

Thank you. I read that W231 and HP-38 are very similar. 
 

I like that aquarium pump idea. I never considered that. Thank you. 

Edited February 23 by Pat Riot

[PowderRiverCowboy]

Used w231 for years sir , never a problem 

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

Used w231 for years sir , never a problem 

Thank you. I appreciate it. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

28 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

Thank you. I read that W231 and HP-38 are very similar. 
 

I like that aquarium pump idea. I never considered that. Thank you. 

Loading data for W231 and HP38 are identical. Use whichever you can find. 

[Pat Riot]

7 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Loading data for W231 and HP38 are identical. Use whichever you can find. 

I am going to Sportsman’s Warehouse for their Balloon Pop event tomorrow then I am going to a gun show. I am sure I can find one or the other tomorrow. 

[Eyesa Horg]

W231 & HP-38 have been available lately. Both are indentical.

[Pat Riot]

If anyone is interested this is a Burn Rate Chart updated by Hodgdon in 2023. 
 

Burn Rate Chart - Hodgdon 2023.pdf

[Choctaw Jack]

I've used W231 exclusively in 45 Colt as long as I've been shooting CAS. No plans to change. 

At lower (cowboy) velocities , it leaves some residue. No big deal.

I've  also shot lots of .45 acp using W231. Due to the smaller case capacity( I think!),it burns much cleaner.

And yes, HP 38 is the same powder. I use it with no changes in my loads.

 

[Sedalia Dave]

For 45 ACP TightGroup and WST are excellent ball powders.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

Thank you everyone for your help. 

I found that Sportsman’s Warehouse near me has HP-38 in stock. I am going to pick up a couple of pounds in the morning. 

[bgavin]

Don't overlook No. 2 or No. 5, as both are ball types and not position sensitive.

Clean Shot as well, but is a faster powder.

 

No. 2 is very close to the 231/HP-38 burn rate.

 

[Pat Riot]

3 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Don't overlook No. 2 or No. 5, as both are ball types and not position sensitive.

Clean Shot as well, but is a faster powder.

 

No. 2 is very close to the 231/HP-38 burn rate.

 

Thank you. Good to know. 
 

My experimentation with pistol powders always seems to be affected by political or supply chain issues. 
For years all I used was Unique powder. It worked for everything I shot. Then one day I couldn’t get Unique, so I tried Universal. I liked that so that’s what I used for a while and then tried Trail Boss and Bullseye.  Shhhhh…Don’t tell anyone, but I am not a big Trail Boss fan…

When W244 came out I tried it and liked it.

So, my pistol powder experience is:

Unique

Universal

Trail Boss

Bullseye (wadcutter rounds)

W244

Not a wide range, but it covered my bases. 

 

[Cypress Sun]

I use W231 in 9mm (115g, 122g lead, 124g, 125g) and .45 ACP (185g, 200g lead, 200g. 230g) loads. While I've tried other powders for these rounds, I've found that 231 suits my needs the best. It's a fine powder that meters very well.  I have not loaded .45 Colt with it as I don't have one..yet.

 

If you run across some Alliant American Select, buy a pound of it and try it for 9mm, .38 spl., .45 Colt and .45 ACP. It's a very clean burning powder and meters well. I've not finished my experimentation with it for 9mm and .45 ACP but I use it exclusively for low power .38 spl cowboy rounds.

 

For the record (IMO) the nastiest, dirtiest powder I've run across was Trail Boss and Unique. They are not among my stock of powders, nor will they be.

[Dr. Zook]

Can you use W231 for both 45 Colt chambered pistols and rifles --- ie 1 load to run in both guns?

[Pat Riot]

22 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

For the record (IMO) the nastiest, dirtiest powder I've run across was Trail Boss and Unique. They are not among my stock of powders, nor will they be.

Unique was much dirtier before the “new formula” came out in the early ’00’s. It’s still a dirty powder if not loaded for optimum burn. 
I agree on Trail Boss. 
I have 300 rounds of .45 Colt loaded with it and I am tempted to pull the bullets and reload them with better powder. 

[Eyesa Horg]

25 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I use W231 in 9mm (115g, 122g lead, 124g, 125g) and .45 ACP (185g, 200g lead, 200g. 230g) loads. While I've tried other powders for these rounds, I've found that 231 suits my needs the best. It's a fine powder that meters very well.  I have not loaded .45 Colt with it as I don't have one..yet.

 

If you run across some Alliant American Select, buy a pound of it and try it for 9mm, .38 spl., .45 Colt and .45 ACP. It's a very clean burning powder and meters well. I've not finished my experimentation with it for 9mm and .45 ACP but I use it exclusively for low power .38 spl cowboy rounds.

 

For the record (IMO) the nastiest, dirtiest powder I've run across was Trail Boss and Unique. They are not among my stock of powders, nor will they be.

I just started loading 9mm using 124gr cast coated pills. Would you share your 231 load please? My first attempt was 3.9gr of TG with an OAL of 1.27-1.30 and they ran about 1030fps but flattened the primers and firing pin dent.

Sorry Pat for the hyjack, just jumped on the opportunity!

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

W231 burns a little dirty but it meters consistently.

[Cypress Sun]

Just now, Pat Riot said:

Unique was much dirtier before the “new formula” came out in the early ’00’s. It’s still a dirty powder if not loaded for optimum burn. 
I agree on Trail Boss. 
I have 300 rounds of .45 Colt loaded with it and I am tempted to pull the bullets and reload them with better powder. 

 

I didn't know that there was a new formula, all of the Unique I had was pre 2000. I gave away the opened containers and sold the un-opened containers during the plague. I guess that in the event of the Zombie Apocalypse, it would be a good powder to have as it is very versatile but I won't be stocking it anytime soon.

[Pat Riot]

5 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

I didn't know that there was a new formula, all of the Unique I had was pre 2000. I gave away the opened containers and sold the un-opened containers during the plague. I guess that in the event of the Zombie Apocalypse, it would be a good powder to have as it is very versatile but I won't be stocking it anytime soon.

The new formula is much better than the old, but there are definitely cleaner powders available. 

[Cypress Sun]

3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I just started loading 9mm using 124gr cast coated pills. Would you share your 231 load please? My first attempt was 3.9gr of TG with an OAL of 1.27-1.30 and they ran about 1030fps but flattened the primers and firing pin dent.

Sorry Pat for the hyjack, just jumped on the opportunity!

 

Sure... 

122g 9mm coated flat point

Sized @ .356

Seated @ 1.065

4.0 Win 231

Normal taper crimp for 9mm

No crono data available

 

They fed fine, with no problems, in Glock 17 (after market barrel), S & W Shield and a Canik 9mm.

 

[Buckshot Bob]

1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

I didn't know that there was a new formula, all of the Unique I had was pre 2000. I gave away the opened containers and sold the un-opened containers during the plague. I guess that in the event of the Zombie Apocalypse, it would be a good powder to have as it is very versatile but I won't be stocking it anytime soon.

Red and blue dot are also much better. I’m assuming all the dots are . I used to load allot of red dot for shotgun when I was a kid and it was always filthy. I was just amazed the first time I used clays 

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I just started loading 9mm using 124gr cast coated pills. Would you share your 231 load please? My first attempt was 3.9gr of TG with an OAL of 1.27-1.30 and they ran about 1030fps but flattened the primers and firing pin dent.

Sorry Pat for the hyjack, just jumped on the opportunity!

Not a problem at all, my friend. Hijack away! 

[Pat Riot]

I picked up 2 pounds of HP-38 at Sportsman’s. Got some reload test loads to do soon. 

[Pat Riot]

Well, I loaded 50 test rounds using 220 gr HBWC Bear Creek Supply bullets. I loaded 5 rounds each starting at 6.0 grains up to 6.9 grains. 
The HP-38 meters better than Universal and Unique but my powder measure would throw some charges that were a little off +/- .5 grains. Definitely better than the 1 or 2 grain deviations I had with Universal. 
 

I am going to try the vibe motor @Abilene Slim SASS 81783 recommended. 
 

Here’s yesterday’s and today’s loads. I color around the primers to keep things in order. 
The 5 rounds on the very right are Hornady leverevolution rounds. They are very accurate from my S&W 25-15 and my Vaqueros. 

[Pat Riot]

Today I shot my test rounds using HP-38 and Universal under a 220 grain HBWC. It turns out that in my S&W 25-15 the 6.2 and the 6.7 grain HP-38 loads are accurate and group nicely from the model 25. 
With the Universal powder loads the 7.0 grain load was the best group overall. 
I also noticed the cases shot with HP-38 were cleaner and much less sooty than those shot with Universal. 
I am very happy with the HP-38 performance. 
I have a new powder to play with. 

Love this revolver. 

 

Thank you all for your input and advice. 
 

 

 

Edit due to flamholerificationaryanism

Edited February 28 by Pat Riot

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

On 2/24/2024 at 7:10 AM, Cypress Sun said:

For the record (IMO) the nastiest, dirtiest powder I've run across was Trail Boss and Unique. They are not among my stock of powders, nor will they be.

I see this comment all the time, and it hasn’t been my experience in 14 years of loading TB. I use it exclusively for my big bore cartridges. Here’s pic of a C45S and .44-40 cases straight from their guns - pistol and rifle respectively. The C45S had 4.1 gr TB under a 160 gr bullet, and the .44-40 5.7 gr TB under a 200 gr bullet. Those are mid-range loads. 
 

If ya wanna load at the bottom end, it’s gonna be dirty.  The difference in recoil is negligible. My opinion only, nothing more. 
 

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:54 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

For 45 ACP TightGroup and WST are excellent ball powders.

 

 

 

I've been using WST for 45 Colt.

Horace