shot shell question.

[Scrappy]

i just got a 20g MEC reloader with a bunch of shells, best i can read they are win AA and has HS on bottom.

im looking for data to buy powder and all i can find is one powder recommend IMR PB and cant find any place to buy that.

any advise?

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Scrappy, welcome to the world of reloading.  I would highly recommend getting with a seasoned reloader that is local to you to show you the ropes.  There are a lot of things to learn and learning them the hard way is just..... well, hard.  The Hodgdon powder website has lots of loads.  You need to figure out what you want and then find a powder that will work.  Then you need to find the powder.  There are lots of powders that will work for shotgun shell.  Availability is the tricky part these days.

 

Good luck.  

[Jack Spade]

There is an order to reloading shotgun shells.  You first select the hull you are going to use, then the amount of shot.  From there you look at the published data to determine what powder, primer and wad get you to the FPS and pressure you want.  These components all have to work together to make a usable shotgun shell. In today's climate of rarely available components you may have to see what powders are available and then pick your load and wad.    I tell all my beginning loaders the first thing you should buy is a Lyman 5th edition shotshell loading manual. 

Edited January 26 by Jack Spade

[Scrappy]

I reload my pistol and rifle ammo now but never ran into making case, primer decisions.

I got the hull choice, kind of by default, i want to use 7/8 oz of lead 7.5 shot. I'm having trouble finding load data.....i will look into getting the book recommended and see if that gets me in a direction i can follow.

 

thanks

[Sedalia Dave]

FYI    PB  was discontinued a couple of years ago.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 minutes ago, Scrappy said:

I reload my pistol and rifle ammo now but never ran into making case, primer decisions.

 

Shotshell loading is VERY much more specific upon the EXACT components you put together, because in the low-chamber-pressure world of shotshells, things can get dangerous when combined incorrectly.  And, besides the low pressure limits, there are the volume requirements.  In cartridge loading, air space inside a brass case is not a big deal.   In shotshell loading, the components have to stack up such that the combination of the powder, wad, and shot stack to a point that supports the crimp of the hull (unless you make a roll crimp).  So, the volume that each component, including what volume the hull holds,  is important.  It adds the additional requirement that not only does pressure matter, but also the stack volume (height inside the hull of all the components).  In loading cartridges, you just match your powder to a bullet weight, and read off what weight of powder you should put in the case.  Bingo, you're done, unless you have to jigger the overall length to match what your gun works with,

 

With shotgun shell loading, you load hulls that are made to one exact length - usually 2 3/4" long for the FIRED hull, but about 2.45" long for a 20 gauge shotshell when a folded (star) crimp is placed on the filled shell.  So, all the components have to fit in the hull, and the crimp has to fold over onto the top of the shot and get pressed down by the reloading machine to make a firmly closed shotshell without a central hole that shot can leak out.  And come out very close to the same 2.45" overall length that the factory made the shotshell to at the factory.

 

So, variations exist in EACH of the components used in shotshells (lack of standardization in the shotshell industry) -

* Hull type (different internal volumes, different wall tapers) (none of the different brands are anywhere near as close to other brands as brass cases are)

* Primer (sometimes vastly different powder burns due to the power of the primer) (where cartridge primers are much more interchangeable)

* Powder (some powder is very dense, some is fluffy,  some carries lots of energy and makes high pressures and velocities, other powders carry less energy and makes low pressures and velocities)

* Wad (lots of variation in the wad lengths, the amount of cushion space under the shot cup, and wads that fit either a tapered hull wall or a straight hull wall, but usually not both)

* Shot (since we use only lead shot in cowboy shooting, not much variation other than the weight of the shot that you put in the hull - more weight means a bigger volume taken up by the shot) 

 

All those variations mean there are thousands of good combinations of hull-primer-powder-wad-shot, and probably millions of BAD dangerous or non-working combinations that you do not want to use, including loads that turn out squibby, poofy, or that won't crimp well.   Loading manuals and published loading data web sites will show you SOME of the good (tested and safe) load combinations. (And none of the unsafe loads)  So, you look through those combinations to pick one that uses the hull, primer, powder name, wad name that you have, and you follow the weights for powder and shot to make a good load.   "Absolutely No Substitutions" from your recipe is the wise place to start with when loading shotshells.

 

Other than the Lyman Shotshell loading handbook, there is shotgun data on the Alliant and the Hodgdon powder company sites - here are links to them:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

 

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

 

Get a copy of the Lyman book because it has GREAT instructions for HOW to load.   The recipes you find in there are now at least 18 years old, and the wads and powders, even the primers and hull types, are obsolete.   Just like that PB powder you mentioned - has not been made for at least 20 years now, and you wont get to use it ever, most likely!   So, look at Alliant or Hodgdon web sites for the best current recipes.

 

That's the good news.  Now the bad news.   Most of the loads you will find are "factory power" type loads.   Useful for hunting or shooting clay targets, not so comfortable for cowboy shooting.   But, to practice making some loads, pick a low velocity, light shot load designed for the hull type that you have, and load that just to see how you like loading and if you want to "go to lighter loads yet" - which most cowboys who load eventually get around to making.  When you get to that point, we (or your local reloaders) will be around to make some suggestions.   But, be aware, most cowboy shooters use 12 gauge guns and shells.   You will find less advice available for 20 gauge reloading.   And many fewer components like wads.   Loading 20 gauge to begin with is kinda tough, compared to 12 gauge.

 

good luck, GJ.

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Let me walk you through how to use one of these powder sites.  Let's use the Hodgdon site (Hodgdon powders are much more available right now), and let's say you found some newish Winchester AA 20 gauge, 2 3/4" hulls.   And Cheddite 209 primers.  Ok, let's find a good guess for a load recipe.

 

Open up the Hodgdon link I gave you previously. 

 

Pick the Shotgun section of data.

 

In selections, chose 20 gauge and Ched. 209 primer and 2 3/4" Winchester Compression Formed AA hulls

 

Then pick Lead Shot type, 3/4 ounce shot weight (make as light a load as you can), and you see only three powders to choose from (International, PB, and Super Hcp).   Gulp, I know that International can not be bought right now due to military demands, and PB hasn't been made for 20 years.  Pick the Super Hcp powder.  THAT at least you can buy pretty easily.   

 

OK, click Get Load Data button.

 

I get 3 recipes.  You should too.   Here's what I see:

(	3/4 ounce load in Winchester AA 20 gauge 2 3/4" hulls)

 

OK, Winchester is the powder brand, Super Hcp (Handicap) is the powder type, Ched 209 is the Cheddite primer that is easy to buy today, CB1075-20 is a ClayBusters wad that is used in a lot of 20 gauge target type loads, 12.5 on the first row is the weight of powder in grains, next number is the chamber pressure in PSI, and the final number is the velocity in Feet Per Second.

 

Remember I wrote earlier that most loading data is going to be a target or hunting load?  Yep, the lightest load here is still scooting along as 1,150 FPS!

 

Anyway, you could try that load, probably have to locate the particular Wad and a 1 pound bottle of Super Handicap powder.

 

Here's the maker of that wad:

http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php/product-by-gauge/by-gauge-20

 

The neon green wad CB1075-20 is the one in the recipe.

Most folks selling shotshell supplies will have it.

 

The powder, Winchester Super Handicap, looks like this:

 

https://www.powdervalley.com/product/winchester-super-handicap/

 

But, Powder Valley shows both a 1 pound and the 8 pound bottles are out of stock RIGHT NOW.

 

Your job might be to search for a seller that has it in stock!

 

See, told you it could be done, but might require some leg work!    12 gauge loads are easier to find components for, but lots of Out of Stock problems with those right now, too.   2024 is not an easy time to start reloading shotshells.

 

good luck, GJ

 

Edited January 26 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

Lyman #5 Shotshell reloading manual lists the following powders for 20 Ga. 7/8  Target loads

International 

PB

Unique

Universal

SR7625

WSF

Solo 1250

HS-6

SR-4756

800X

Blue Dot

[Yul Lose]

I’ve found that MEC reloaders in the smaller gauges like to drop #8 or #9 shot a lot better than 7.5. With all of my 16 gauge MEC presses I had bridging issues but when I went to the smaller shot the bridging issues disappeared. Even with new shot 7.5 shot would tend to bridge on occasion. The smaller shot works fine for our game.

Edited January 26 by Yul Lose

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Of those powders from the 18 year old Lyman handbook, the ones that are still made sometimes are a short list:

Unique - usually very hard to find

WSF - probably the easiest to find most of the time, but out of stock now

HS-6 - in stock at Powder Valley now (but really useful for 7/8 ounce loads or heavier)

Blue Dot - very rare to find on a shelf

 

If you might have some TiteGroup (also called High Over All) powder, there's some new tested loading data  for a  3/4 ounce 20 gauge load I could point you to from another Internet forum.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited January 26 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[watab kid]

ive not seen blue dot or for that matter green dot in years on our shelves , i shoot a lot of red dot - old stock BTW , but have not seen that either , it seems like a lot of renaming is going on , i holpe it all gets sorted out so we can once again know and depend on what we buy and use - i for one am not that up on all the substitutions/renaming stuff, im good on powders but i think its unfortunate for those that are not , 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

MidwayUSA.com shows 1-lb bottles of Super Handicap in stock.  I use it for some 12-gauge loads.  It meters well, is dense and burns clean.  Many vendors have Cheddite 209s in stock including MidwayUSA.com.  Cheddite 209s are the only shotgun primers widely available now so you should focus on loads that use them.  Buy a case gauge for your reloads and gauge them before using them in a CAS match.  Some may be oversize and best used for practice sessions.  BTW, shot is frequently unavailable in local sporting goods stores.  Stock up when you see some.

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Of those powders from the 18 year old Lyman handbook, the ones that are still made sometimes are a short list:

Unique - usually very hard to find

WSF - probably the easiest to find most of the time, but out of stock now

HS-6 - in stock at Powder Valley now (but really useful for 7/8 ounce loads or heavier)

Blue Dot - very rare to find on a shelf

 

If you might have some TiteGroup (also called High Over All) powder, there's some new tested loading data  for a  3/4 ounce 20 gauge load I could point you to from another Internet forum.

 

good luck, GJ

I just listed all of those powders in the manual so he would know what there was data for.  Over the years I have picked up more different powders from estates sales and odd lots at gun shows and such.  I have, and somrtimes shoot, AL-8, Dupont 5066, Dupont #6, Win 230-P and Win 450LS.  Never know when you'll run onto a couple of lbs. of older or discontinued powder

[watab kid]

you need to check the burn rate on shotgun powders to compare them , along wit how they meter = powder is stick , disc etc , all come out a bit different and the drop is not the same for all , there is a lot to learn but you can get there if you put in the time and effort , its worth it in the end , you gotta load for economy in this game , but no hurry to get there - take your time , try some things out before you settle on "the one" i did , it has worked out well in the end and i have been very happy with mine , just loaded another 100 today , om looking to load a 100 every day till spring in mid march - i do shoot these for other things as well , 

[Rattlesnake Slim]

I like Alliant 20/28, specifically produced for 20 & 28 gauge shells.

[Scrappy]

14 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Of those powders from the 18 year old Lyman handbook, the ones that are still made sometimes are a short list:

Unique - usually very hard to find

WSF - probably the easiest to find most of the time, but out of stock now

HS-6 - in stock at Powder Valley now (but really useful for 7/8 ounce loads or heavier)

Blue Dot - very rare to find on a shelf

 

If you might have some TiteGroup (also called High Over All) powder, there's some new tested loading data  for a  3/4 ounce 20 gauge load I could point you to from another Internet forum.

 

good luck, GJ

that would be helpful!  I'm using titegroup for my pistol and rifle and have 4 lbs of it

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I'll send you a link to that professionally pressure-tested load.  Check your private messages.

 

Since you are new to reloading shotshells, I'd bet you don't have a big stockpile of old shotshell powders made 20 years or so ago.

 

good luck, GJ

Edited January 26 by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Everyone talks about availability of powders, more particularly, the lack thereof.  But I'm finding lots of different powders in stock right now from a number of reputable retailers, but of course they are all rather pricey and you have to pay the HAZMAT shipping charge. 

[Skullbone Willie]

I use W572, it’s easy to find right now and makes a great Skeet load using a Claybuster Wad and 16.0 grains of 572. 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I've been loading and shooting 20 ga. for years. My go to powder is WSF (Winchester Super Field), 16.6 grains (#16 MEC bushing), Claybuster CB1078-20  7/8 oz wad, Cheddite primers, and #8 shot. Very nice load easy on the shoulder.