Happy Columbus Day

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

The Norse didn't communicate with old world Europe their discoveries or travel. They were their to conquer. By the 16th Century news traveled fast, for the time, so word of Columbus's discovery was well known within a few years. As you said, the world wasn't aware of the "discoveries" of the Norse until our modern times.

Like the Norse, Columbus's find was happenstance at best.

Exactly! Columbus day is more of a recognition of Italian people that were discriminated against in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The first Columbus day celebration was in 1792 by the Columbian order of of New York or Tammany Hall. FDR proclaimed Columbus Day a National Holiday in 1937 due to lobbying by the Knights of Columbus. In 1892 Benjamin Harrison issued a proclamtion encouraging Americans to celebrate Columbus day. It's complicated for sure.

 

Then there's Amerigo Vespucci which is another story! 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Monday was also Indigenous Peoples Day. But media never makes any effort to make us aware of that. Not yet a National holiday.

My daughter works for a native American owned company. It pays for their staff to take it off. But won't pay for Columbus Day....Rightfully so.

The two holidays just happen to coincide.

[Rye Miles #13621]

3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Monday was also Indigenous Peoples Day. But media never makes any effort to make us aware of that. Not yet a National holiday.

My daughter works for a native American owned company. It pays for their staff to take it off. But won't pay for Columbus Day....Rightfully so.

The two holidays just happen to coincide.

I think the liberals are trying to cancel Columbus Day and replace it with Indigenous Peoples day.
I have no problem with them having a day of celebration but I just wish they would leave Columbus alone. Can’t they pick another date for God’s sakes !!

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I think the liberals are trying to cancel Columbus Day and replace it with Indigenous Peoples day.
I have no problem with them having a day of celebration but I just wish they would leave Columbus alone. Can’t they pick another date for God’s sakes !!

Because their real goal is not to establish a new holiday celebrating indigenous people, but rather in spiteful anger to cancel any celebration of Columbus or any other white hero.  

 

LL

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

And let us not forget(?) Prince Madoc:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc

[Ozark Huckleberry]

On 10/9/2023 at 2:10 PM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

[Native Americans] did have slaves, you can read about it in several history books.

 

There's a fair amount of glossing over and rationalizing the slave-holding practices of Native Americans.

 

Most people recognize the Cherokee tragedy of the Trail of Tears. Not many people consider the number of blacks who died as slaves as they were taken by their Cherokee owners on the Trail of Tears.

[Rye Miles #13621]

32 minutes ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

 

There's a fair amount of glossing over and rationalizing the slave-holding practices of Native Americans.

 

Most people recognize the Cherokee tragedy of the Trail of Tears. Not many people consider the number of blacks who died as slaves as they were taken by their Cherokee owners on the Trail of Tears.

Let's not forget the killing and torturing of Native American tribes against each other! Everyone wants to think they were all living in peace and tip toeing through the tulips before the white man came. 

[Ozark Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Let's not forget the killing and torturing of Native American tribes against each other! Everyone wants to think they were all living in peace and tip toeing through the tulips before the white man came. 

Many native tribes were more than willing to ally with Europeans to attack their rivals.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Our understanding of Native Americans is based on what the Europeans wrote down. With no obligation to actually research and document facts. The narratives are based based on European understanding of what being civilized was with a very strong overlay of religion.

 

Native Americans;

1. Fought over territory and were brutal to their enemies. NA's and "Whites".

2. They took captives of NA's and eventually "whites". Did they treat them like slaves. Some say yes, some say they assimilated them into their tribe.

3. Technically the NA's discovered the America's.

 

There is proof the Chinese explored the west coast of the America's way before any European did.

The NA's aren't trying to erase the Columbus narrative. They just want their moment of recognition also. Like Black History, Brown history, etc.

[Rye Miles #13621]

28 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Our understanding of Native Americans is based on what the Europeans wrote down. With no obligation to actually research and document facts. The narratives are based based on European understanding of what being civilized was with a very strong overlay of religion.

 

Native Americans;

1. Fought over territory and were brutal to their enemies. NA's and "Whites".

2. They took captives of NA's and eventually "whites". Did they treat them like slaves. Some say yes, some say they assimilated them into their tribe.

3. Technically the NA's discovered the America's.

 

There is proof the Chinese explored the west coast of the America's way before any European did.

The NA's aren't trying to erase the Columbus narrative. They just want their moment of recognition also. Like Black History, Brown history, etc.

No the native Americans are not tryin to erase Columbus it’s the white liberals !

[Alpo]

If I was an American Indian, and people decided that I needed to now be called a Native American (which is technically correct because they were born in America. I am a native American because I was born in America. My sister-in-law is a naturalized American because she was born in a different country and came over here and took a test) I think I would be thoroughly pissed if people decided that I needed to be called an NA. NA means not applicable. NA means nothing.

 

Just seems insulting as hell.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

If I was an American Indian, and people decided that I needed to now be called a Native American (which is technically correct because they were born in America. I am a native American because I was born in America. My sister-in-law is a naturalized American because she was born in a different country and came over here and took a test) I think I would be thoroughly pissed if people decided that I needed to be called an NA. NA means not applicable. NA means nothing.

 

Just seems insulting as hell.

You’re right all of us born here are Native Americans. My grandparents from both sides were born in Italy as well as my dad (he was 10 when he came here with his mom, my grandfather came earlier) they went through Ellis Island and did all the legal stuff) so yes I’m a Native American as well as practically all my friends and family. 
We can’t say Indians anymore so what do we call the people of the different tribes like Sioux etc.?

[Alpo]

30 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

We can’t say Indians anymore so what do we call the people of the different tribes like Sioux etc.?

You might not can say Indians anymore but I call them Indians.

 

But if you're really afraid of hurting their poor little feelings, call them Cheyenne or Arapahoe or Crow or Seminole.

 

I notice nobody's worried about hurting my poor little feelings. I'm American. Not Irish American, not Italian American, not French American, and for damn sure not European American. But there seems to be more and more people that use that term.

 

 

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:18 PM, Blackwater 53393 said:

The U.S. Government collected census data from the “Nations” , even back in those days!  They had fairly accurate counts of Native American homes, family members, and slave holdings, so the numbers offered in that earlier post are probably fairly reliable.

 

To dismiss them out of hand is disingenuous, unless one has documented evidence to the contrary. It’s also needlessly argumentative and likely misleading!

 

The fact that the “Left” has set out to rewrite history in the image that suits its purpose over the past several decades is incontrovertible!  We have watched it happen and done little to prevent it!  
 

The warts of our past are a part of our history that need to be preserved!  The denial of the wrongs that occurred would prevent our descendants from learning from the mistakes and missteps that our predecessors made and the ones we have made ourselves!!  So! Quit trying to make excuses for what the, (they chose the term, not us) WOKE minority is trying to do!  It’s WRONG and there’s no way to make it right, unless the revisionist left wing narrative is allowed to become accepted history!

 

 I won’t go into the specifics and the pros and cons of the “Civil War”, the “Trail of Tears”, the faux pas of the westward movement and “Manifest Destiny”.  We’ve discussed and argued the points of contention here to no end.

 

That the “Left” tries to vilify anyone today for things they had no hand in or any control over and expects to place blame on or exact recompense from anyone who is living today for whatever perceived wrong occurred nearly a century and three quarters ago is divisive and completely counterproductive!

 

I won’t even dignify the attack on religion here with an argument. It was blatantly wrong and inflammatory and deserves no response save that it was beneath even the lowest of expectations!!

Well played my friend. VERY well played. 

[Blackwater 53393]

I call people “Brother” when they show me that they are worthy of that appellation.

 

I call them that without respect to their ethnicity, religion, or any other persuasion.

 

Others I call Sir or Ma’am when appropriate.  I’m not particularly interested in their family tree! I’m only concerned with how they feel about America and Americans!

 

My dad’s family immigrated from Germany before the turn of the twentieth century. My dad was the youngest of thirteen “native Americans” and held no fealty to Germany. He was an American!

 

Some of my mom’s folks were here before the first European, Oriental, or Scandinavian set foot in the “New World”! The rest came from the British Isles and other parts of Europe.

 

As far as we can discern, none of them ever held slaves, although those earliest inhabitants of the continent might have, before the explorers arrived.

 

There is now NOBODY living who was part of the slavery in the United States! Not a slave or a slave holder and few if any who are the children of either are still alive!

 

It’s time to put the devisive crap aside and move on!! It’s time we acknowledged the past and taught everyone that it was wrong on every level, but that the past is the past!

 

 The same goes for the treatment of the tribes of our “native” ancestors! It was wrong on many levels and regrettable on all sides!  Nonetheless, it too is a part of our history and is to be learned from!

 

What needs to happen is for ALL of us recognize that we are ALL American and start accepting that as our standard and expecting everyone to live up to that standard!!

[watab kid]

i have no problem celebrating the discovery discovery , im not sure we need a national holiday , i have no problem if indigenous people want a day to remember them , again i dont think we need a national holiday , i have an issue with trying to force one on top of the other - your point is not well received nor accepted 

[Dantankerous]

19 hours ago, Alpo said:

If I was an American Indian, and people decided that I needed to now be called a Native American (which is technically correct because they were born in America. I am a native American because I was born in America. My sister-in-law is a naturalized American because she was born in a different country and came over here and took a test) I think I would be thoroughly pissed if people decided that I needed to be called an NA. NA means not applicable. NA means nothing.

 

Just seems insulting as hell.

 

This is entirely correct.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Why is it that leftists in America feel free  and safe to insult Christians in the manner that they do but they, for some reason, do not feel free and safe to insult followers of other religions, particularly Muslims, to the same degree, if at all? Why would that be? Hmm!

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

5 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Why is it that leftists in America feel free  and safe to insult Christians in the manner that they do but they, for some reason, do not feel free and safe to insult followers of other religions, particularly Muslims, to the same degree, if at all? Why would that be? Hmm!

 

 

Because they’re whackos! 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

If you've every engaged "Native Americans" in any dialogue you'd here them call themselves Indians, tribes, Native Americans, First Nation People.

Indigenous People is a scientific term for any group of individuals living on any location for a period of time.  Pre-history forward.

Do not be so rude as to call any Native a tribe name unless you know for a fact thats who they are. Very insulting.  To this day they still hold grudges or anger towards other tribes from their past.

I've worked with Indians and my daughter is a counselor for a large group in Northern California.  

 

I agree, liberals are trying to destroy history.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

14 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Why is it that leftists in America feel free  and safe to insult Christians in the manner that they do but they, for some reason, do not feel free and safe to insult followers of other religions, particularly Muslims, to the same degree, if at all? Why would that be? Hmm!

 

 

I dunno, maybe something to do with, 'Turn the other cheek,' versus, 'Cut your head off or carry a bomb into your office'?