Fallon Kid Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 I know many folks are absolutely giddy today about someone getting charged over a 4473 transgression. Before we go ‘raining lead’ I would suggest that the 4473 is a perjury trap and opens all gun owners up to legal action. We all think we have done nothing wrong and are honest folk, which is true, but do you think you could pass muster against a room full of rabid anti-2A lawyers. How many have bought a firearm for a son or daughter as a gift, or a friend. Who has dabbled in chemicals/adult beverage in their youth and has been attending 12 step programs for 10, 20, 30 years and never looked back. Once an addict/alcoholic they always will be one. That is a fact. There are so many ways a person could be had by answering all the questions, and in good faith, but end up being charged with something. So before I pop the cork, I digest how I/we could be opening a can of worms in which the very ideas of some folks whose position on gun control can be used against the very people that enjoy this sport. I say this as a person who is two campfires to the right of Thomas Jefferson. As far as shooting, I am so bad that after a match I doubt I could pass a positive GSR Test. I have the scores to prove it, but still a mighty fine brass picker upper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 I am positive I can handle a room full of anti 2A lawyers. I’ve filled our numerous 4473’s and I’m 100% positive I’ve never lied ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving guy. He deserves a lot more treatment like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 4473 and the whole licensing thing fails strict historical test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 The question are not as open ended as you say they are. "Are you now, or have you ever been" isn't part of the question about substance abuse. Buying a firearm as a gift varies from state to state, and I don't think any state sees it as a straw purchase, unless you way th intend giving it to a prohibited person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: The question are not as open ended as you say they are. "Are you now, or have you ever been" isn't part of the question about substance abuse. Buying a firearm as a gift varies from state to state, and I don't think any state sees it as a straw purchase, unless you way th intend giving it to a prohibited person. I’m pretty sure the question is, Are you addicted to marijuana or any illegal drugs. Not word for word but something close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracos Kid Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 This is the section on the 4473 in question.... Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside. The fact that it is a felony to lie on this form is the substance of the crime. This same felony occurs in Georgia on a license plate registration where someone alleges that the vehicle was just purchased from out of state, therefore no ad valorem taxes are due, even though the vehicle has been in Georgia the entire time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 Use of marijuana is a federal crime; so a user is an unlawful one. Hope no medical-marijuana using pard has ever filled this form out! About as thin a charge as you can get. Prosecution will have to prove "use" (when?) or "addicted to". Not so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 This Fifth Circuit decision: https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-60596-CR0.pdf Overturned a conviction for a marijuana user. While the entire law was not overturned, this was a successful "as-applied" challenge. In short, there were two findings: The prosecution did not prove (did not test) the plaintiff for drug use (the plaintiff did admit to regular use since high school) There is no history or tradition for losing 2nd Amendment rights for inebriation, there is history and tradition for removal of firearms after wrongful use (wasteful or unsafe discharge), but arms would be returned upon sobriety These findings are based not on use or addiction, but on actual inebriation. So what does this mean for Hunter? Not much except maybe a "related case" filing. Maybe a basis for appeal after conviction. This could stretch out resolution for years. But Hunter is not being tried in the Fifth Circuit and the ruling was limited to a single plaintiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 Ohio has a medical marijuana card and those with it can still get a gun on the 4473. Technically they’re not addicted they just use it for medical purposes. They’re lying on the 4473 but The Feds and the state of Ohio don’t communicate because of the HIPAA law. This is what I was told by several sources from my LGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Ohio has a medical marijuana card and those with it can still get a gun on the 4473. Technically they’re not addicted they just use it for medical purposes. They’re lying on the 4473 but The Feds and the state of Ohio don’t communicate because of the HIPAA law. The card provides protection from the state against prosecution should the holder choose to purchase medical marijuana. The card does not prove use or addiction. It may suggest it, just as any prescription for a med subject to abuse might suggest abuse. But the card does not prove anything further than a shield to state prosecution for possession. Please note this is not legal advice, IANAL. I prefer Embassy Suites. I am an engineer. And I do not live in Ohio. Pot is pretty minor IMO, but I must admit I have some difficulty squaring meth use and addiction with firearms ownership. Thoughts like mine are why we have a constitution, Drawing a line -- any line -- on any right for any reason is not a trivial matter. IIRC, reports are Hunter has a cocaine problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Do you use? No. I did two days ago, but I'm not planning to right now. Are you addicted? No! See answer to #1 above. I can quit anytime. As a felony charge, I think it's dubious..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallon Kid Posted September 17, 2023 Author Share Posted September 17, 2023 As I first stated, this form is a trap if someone in the legal system chooses to use it to further their cause. I use the example, once an alcoholic or addict, always will be one. The wording on the form does make a distinction. A lot of the other questions are just for honest folk. Criminals don’t care about laws or honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Are you addicted to Marijuana ? “Oh heck no I’ve been smoking it for 30 years I can quit anytime I want!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Form 4473 was recently changed in August 2023. That is not the version HB signed in 2018. The only 4473 that counts regarding those charges is the one he signed at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Pat Riot said: Form 4473 was recently changed in August 2023. That is not the version HB signed in 2018. The only 4473 that counts regarding those charges is the one he signed at the time. Excuse my ignorance but who’s HB?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Just now, Rye Miles #13621 said: Excuse my ignorance but who’s HB?? Hunter Biden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 If the govt decides to charge you, justice is very expensive. Most folks cannot afford justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 I have complete confidence in the ability of Republicans to screw it up. I say this as one who is neither Democrat nor Republican... just a realistic independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 Two sides of the same bent coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 8:07 AM, Subdeacon Joe said: The question are not as open ended as you say they are. "Are you now, or have you ever been" isn't part of the question about substance abuse. Buying a firearm as a gift varies from state to state, and I don't think any state sees it as a straw purchase, unless you way th intend giving it to a prohibited person. Sadly, Joe, 'tain't exactly so in california. Firearms can be "gifted" without going through an FFL (with the obligatory ten-day "lock-up" period) only between spouses and parents/offspring. Even then, a Form BOF 4544A has to be filed, along with a payment of $19. I'm sure this requirement is pretty universally followed in the state... wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: I'm sure this requirement is pretty universally followed in the state... wouldn't you agree? Of course! None of us would ever even think about not following the law! Truthfully, I was only thinking about transfers to spouse or children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 In Ohio we can give or sell to anyone as long as they show proof of residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.