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And He Walked Away...


Cypress Sun

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

Boy, they build them strong!

 

 

They build 'em to shed energy by shedding parts and falling apart, but they do have a strong cockpit and seat.   

Quite a departure from the early days of racing where the wisdom was to build the car tough and strong so it wouldn't crush but stay more or less intact.  

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Most of the sanctioning organizations have serious R&D facilities that take these wrecks and clinically disect them to see what worked and what can be improved!

 

After critical examination, there will likely be new changes made in how the cars are built!

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Most of the sanctioning organizations have serious R&D facilities that take these wrecks and clinically disect them to see what worked and what can be improved!

 

After critical examination, there will likely be new changes made in how the cars are built!

 

 

 

 

 

Another driver asset toward survival is the immediate response of medical teams to the crash site. I looked at the response time to this crash. It was 17 seconds and change from the time the vehicle ceased motion to the arrival of the first medical truck...pretty damn awesome. 

 

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NHRA Safety Safari set the standard and NASCAR and IndyCar have equaled their level in accident response!

 

I’ve witnessed, in person, the Safety Safari guys reach a wreck, literally, before the car stopped rolling!!

 

Those three stand out in motorsports!  Some others are good, but those three are the Gold Standard!

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Ahhhh, back then they had only one car to race. Not 10 sitting in the home shop. Crash it and hope it can be fixed.

 

Something to that, but also the theory that the less damage to the car the better the chance of the driver surviving.  Unfortunately that made the driver the most breakable part in the equation.  Less energy dissipated into components of the car means more energy transferred to the nut behind the wheel.

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I have yet to see a NASCAR race that does not have one or more crashes.  I don't like NASCAR but my son-in-law is a huge fan and every sunday at family dinners they have a race going on.  I'm more into IMSA and F-1.  

Having said that this guy had more than one angel riding with him. 

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Ahhhh, back then they had only one car to race. Not 10 sitting in the home shop. Crash it and hope it can be fixed.

Not so much. 

The days of a team with one single car were over 50+ years ago.

An average team from the 80's forward would have 20+ cars with differing chassis for short track, intermediate, superspeedway and road couses.

 

As a matter of fact - the current car is actually a "spec" car that each team purchases many major components rather than building everything in house in an attempt to lower the number of cars needed, control costs and to "level the playing field" between startup/ small teams and the powerhouse teams.  

 

Back to safety:

The deaths of Adam Petty and Dale Earnhardt, tho tragic, necessitated a hard look at safety inside and outside the car and have COMPLETELY rewritten the rule books and expectations of safety equipment in Nascar.

 

From the requirement of full face helmets (Dale Sr was the last open face).

To improved air scrubbers in the vehicles and repositioned exhaust outlets for Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

To the evolving driver cockpit that moved the driver closer to the middle of the car.

To HANS restraints (Head And Neck) to avoid the neck snap whiplash (Dale Sr died from an intact decapitation - meaning his dead literally internally detached from impact but because there was no exterior shearing force remained attached to the body).

To the SAFER (Steel And Foam Energy Reducing) barriers/ walls that unlike concrete can deform to absorb impact when a car hits the wall.

To the (amazingly recent) requirement for drivers to wear Nomex (fire resistant) undergarments and head/ neck scarfs.

To tethered parts on the cars themselves to keep shedding parts out of the grandstands.

To the implementation of a "cockpit" design providing a hi strength cage around the driver and impact sacrificial engine and rear end cradles.

 

This "lift off" type wreck has been relatively rare over the last few years - I wonder if the implementation of the flat underbody panel created unexpected lift.  Prior cars were "open" underneath - so engines, transmissions, driveshaft, rear end were visible if you were viewing the underside - these odd shapes didnt create lift.  The new car has a shield (like a modern hi performance street car) to create better aerodynamics for handling, performance and fuel efficiency.  Might be an unintended consequence when they get in the air at 185mph.

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1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

One 160lb driver - One ambulance.

One 3500lb car in multiple pieces - Three tow trucks

 

I think you missed my point. Tow trucks first in scene with a red emergency truck, probably Firefighters. Ambulance shows up last. Tow trucks prepping to tow car when driver not even out of it yet. 
Sure appears as though the car is the main concern. 
 

 

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56 minutes ago, Pat Riot said:

I think you missed my point. Tow trucks first in scene with a red emergency truck, probably Firefighters. Ambulance shows up last. Tow trucks prepping to tow car when driver not even out of it yet. 
Sure appears as though the car is the main concern. 
 

 

 

The red emergency truck has cross trained EMS/Firefighters. I believe that there is also trauma doctors/surgeons on hand also although I don't know which veheicle they travel in.

The tow trucks often have the crash vehicle "hooked up" before the driver is out of the vehicle so that's not uncommon. The tow crews in NASCAR have wrecked vehicle recovery down to a science and will right an overturned vehicle with the driver still in the vehicle. The main concern is for the driver or injured person(s) of course. Clearing the track of wreckage and debris is secondary but it is important to be done quickly as the fans pay to watch a race...not to watch cars ride around under caution.

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5 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Another driver asset toward survival is the immediate response of medical teams to the crash site. I looked at the response time to this crash. It was 17 seconds and change from the time the vehicle ceased motion to the arrival of the first medical truck...pretty damn awesome. 

 

 

 My understanding is that in the verrrrry early days of motor racing the "onsite medical facilities" consisted of ......... a shovel.   :mellow:

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20 minutes ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

 

 My understanding is that in the verrrrry early days of motor racing the "onsite medical facilities" consisted of ......... a shovel.   :mellow:

 

You're about correct, except it had to be a flat shovel.

 

If you look at footage of the early days of auto racing, there were often 2 people in the car, one mechanic and one driver. They weren't belted in and wore little more than some leather protective clothing. They actually wanted to get thrown from the car in the event of a crash due to the fire danger. 

 

Look at early racing at Indianapolis Speedway...those people were completely INSANE.:o

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7 hours ago, Dawg Hair, SASS #29557 said:

I have yet to see a NASCAR race that does not have one or more crashes.  I don't like NASCAR but my son-in-law is a huge fan and every sunday at family dinners they have a race going on.  


There have been many NASCAR races run with no crashes! Before the advent of “stage racing” there were a number of races completed without a single caution!

 

 

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6 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

I think you missed my point. Tow trucks first in scene with a red emergency truck, probably Firefighters. Ambulance shows up last. Tow trucks prepping to tow car when driver not even out of it yet. 
Sure appears as though the car is the main concern. 
 

 


Those tow trucks cary the extraction gear used to free a driver in the event he is pinned in the car or where the car is in such a position that it must be moved for the driver to exit or to be helped from the car.

 

In at least one crash, earlier in the season, (or perhaps late last season) it was necessary for two trucks to work in tandem to carefully reposition a car so that the driver could climb out.

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I was speaking about the 50/60/70's. No teams and no multiple cars.


There were teams with multiple cars as far back as the mid fifties! 

The Flock brothers, Tim, Fontel, and Bob raced as a team starting in the forties!!

 

The Wood Brothers racing team was formed in 1950 and the Pettys were running multiple cars in the late fifties! 
 

There were others too, but I’d have to look ‘em up to give you names.

 

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1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:


There were teams with multiple cars as far back as the mid fifties! 

The Flock brothers, Tim, Fontel, and Bob raced as a team starting in the forties!!

 

The Wood Brothers racing team was formed in 1950 and the Pettys were running multiple cars in the late fifties! 
 

There were others too, but I’d have to look ‘em up to give you names.

 

You are absolutely correct.

Didn't really want to argue about it with Ike.

 

The concept that research and equipment costs could be spread out among multiple entries to lower cost per unit (and multiple entries gave you more opportunities for winning) is not a new idea.

 

My grandfathers "rinky dink" Grand National team in the 60's was a two car team with numerous backup chassis and assembled engines/ transmissions built and stacked up on pallets.

 

And this was a team financed by a pig farmer - not a corporate backed entity.

When sponsorship money became a source of profit - not just a way to pay for parts and equipment; it became even more important to have multiple cars.

Not to mention the importance of TV money and camera appearance fees (Nascar sponsorship dollars are not solely based on "Having your company name on the hood costs XX dollars per race/ season" - the dollars change based on announcer mentions and time on TV - someone actually stopwatches every car/ every second for what is shown on TV and for how long).

The sponsor of Ryans car will likely (not for definite) be cutting a "bigger" check for the team because his car was "featured" for a longer time on TV - not mattering that this was for a wreck; but just because that sponsor graphic got more TV time than expected.

 

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Exactly Right!

 

 I posted my “teams” response to point out that teams and sponsorship go way way back in racing. All sorts of racing.

 

Even the Granitellis were building and racing multiple cars in USAC right after WWII!

 

The Wood Brothers began the rapid pit stop routines, in part, so that they could run more than one car and keep ‘em on the track.

 

 They all built their cars so that parts interchanged and maintainence was repeatable.

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20 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

3 tow trucks and 1 little ambulance van. Weird priorities. 

It tends to discombobulate the fans when the driver needs more than one ambulance, Pat.:lol:

 

On the other hand, they think it's cool if the car needs more than one wrecker.

 

Seriously, it's more a question of positioning of the response vehicles than importance.  Those wrecker guys are gonna contact the driver first thing and if he waves them off saying he's OK, theyare gonna leave him to the pros unless there's a fire.  All the cars have 2 way communications and you can bet the crew chief is yelling in his ear and passing it along to the official- who is also in communication with NASCAR.  The ambulance ride is mandatory now.  He's going to the infield care center, period, but there's no need for it to get in the way of the recovery if there's no medical necessity.

 

When the driver doesn't give them the OK immediately, everybody gets real serious, real fast about his health and safety.

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My Dad asked a question about the crash and wondered how it compared to Elliot Sadler's big one at Talladega several years ago.

 

(For them not familiar with Elliot, it took him about 4 races at Talladega to cross the finish line with his tires pointed towards the ground- and that time doesn't really count since he was tumbling over the finish line and he crossed the line in the air with the tires were pointed down.)

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