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3 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

A stage could say A, B, C.

The PM reads 1, 2, 3.

And the shooter will shoot apple, bannana and orange

 

16 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

There IS NO ONE answer to make the three perfect every.single.time

 

I can understand the shooter earning a P all by themselves. Happens all the time.

 

But, for the life of me, I am still trying to figure out why the PM cannot read exactly what the stage says, verbatim.

 

Can someone please explain a good reason why they should not be reading the stage instructions word for word?

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1 minute ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

 

I can understand the shooter earning a P all by themselves. Happens all the time.

 

But, for the life of me, I am still trying to figure out why the PM cannot read exactly what the stage says, verbatim.

 

Can someone please explain a good reason why they should not be reading the stage instructions word for word?

That is one I can't understand.

That is ALL on the PM as well.

Stages can be clear as a bell to 80%, and 10% will try to twist it and turn it around...and the other 10% will try to have it changed to stages 'they are used to'.

When Shanley feels tired he will ask someone else to read the stages.;)

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When I read a stage, it is LOUD. It is VERBATIM. When questions are asked I answer that portion verbatim from the book again. I make sure everyone is present on the posse when I read it. If I'm given special instructions not in the book during the walk through I note it in my book and relate those special instructions. It's not my job to decipher how to shoot the stage for the shooter. That's their job. It's not my job to decipher what the stage writer is trying to say. That's the stage writers job and anything I add or subtract from their wording only hurts them and the shooter. I figure it's hard enough to write stages without me screwing with it. I can tell you, I'm used to a walk through that will leave you 2 stages behind if you're not buckled up because all the info that matters is in the description.

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I ask this fro;)m all of you that actually shot the EOT match at BASF in Phx this year...

Please fill out your survey that Sunshine Kay will be sending soon.

Each and every survey is read.

Discussions wich go to 5 pages can often lead to a road of picking and belittling, and travel off track.

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On 3/9/2022 at 3:59 PM, Santa Fe River Stan,36999L said:

That was simply a stage instruction that made sure every shooter reached a certain physical position on those stages. Since Duelist are the only ones that can hold a long gun and shoot a pistol at the same time (it's physically impossible for traditional or gunfighter style shooters to do that since both hands are busy with pistols) that added instruction prevented Duelists from shooting their pistols without advancing to the box/table where everyone else made their shotguns safe then shot.

 

Stan

Technically a GF could do this by shooting DBL Duelist.

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56 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

I ask this fro;)m all of you that actually shot the EOT match at BASF in Phx this year...

Please fill out your survey that Sunshine Kay will be sending soon.

Each and every survey is read.

Discussions wich go to 5 pages can often lead to a road of picking and belittling, and travel off track.

We're discussing while awaiting the reasoning for the duelist category rule. Which was the reason for my post.

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Let's check with the "official" SASS Physchiatrist to find out what was in the stage writer's mind when he/she put that in the stage description.  Other than cause 5 pages of discussion on the Wire, upset a bunch of shooters, why do it?  Slow down the duelists?  Create a Procedural trap?

Send in the survey folks. 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

All I can say is that bribe was money well spent!

 

BEWARE, Capt BB.   You could well be assigned to Posse 13.5 at the TN State.

And guess WHO will be the Posse leader?    YEP.... the DQ Kid hisowndangself.

 

..........Widder

 

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34 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

BEWARE, Capt BB.   You could well be assigned to Posse 13.5 at the TN State.

And guess WHO will be the Posse leader?    YEP.... the DQ Kid hisowndangself.

 

..........Widder

 

I believe our esteemed MD likes TW way too much to inflict me on him (or does he like me way too much to inflict TW on me?).   

 

IIRC last year nobody wanted to posse with me, least of all TW.   That's where posse 13.5 came from, the castoffs and those who were willing to put up with a steady diet of BB comments. 

 

I think watching my blindingly fast foot speed reminds TW of just how old he is getting and throws him off his game. 

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

All I can say is that bribe was money well spent!

I plan on bringing one of those Chinese (can I still say that?) finger puzzles to the TN match.  I figure that will keep TW busy for several days, long enough for me to beat him for the third year in a row.

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52 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I plan on bringing one of those Chinese (can I still say that?) finger puzzles to the TN match.  I figure that will keep TW busy for several days, long enough for me to beat him for the third year in a row.

I'm still high on whoopin up on you the last few SE Regional matches. You could probably beat me in those if it weren't for your handicap. You know...the one where you have to hold on to yer pistols with 2 hands! Bwahahaha

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28 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

I'm still high on whoopin up on you the last few SE Regional matches. You could probably beat me in those if it weren't for your handicap. You know...the one where you have to hold on to yer pistols with 2 hands! Bwahahaha

It's true the last few Regionals have not been kind to me, but hope springs eternal.  Of course with this broken foot....I'll only be a half step ahead of you. 

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2 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

Wait...you got another friend?!

Well...hate to say it...but I'm his friend:ph34r:

 

PS: Do you think we'll ever get an explanation as to why they felt it was necessary to write in the "Butt" rule?

 

:lol:

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16 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well...hate to say it...but I'm his friend:ph34r:

 

PS: Do you think we'll ever get an explanation as to why they felt it was necessary to write in the "Butt" rule?

 

:lol:

OMG...Stop!!!!

I see it as a stage instruction NOT a 'rule' !!:ph34r:

I think y'all are just trying to see if this will reach page 6!

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29 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well...hate to say it...but I'm his friend:ph34r:

 

PS: Do you think we'll ever get an explanation as to why they felt it was necessary to write in the "Butt" rule?

 

:lol:

Yeah, but you'll take anybody:D

 

It ain't lookin good.

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12 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

OMG...Stop!!!!

I see it as a stage instruction NOT a 'rule' !!:ph34r:

I think y'all are just trying to see if this will reach page 6!

Well, I have to disagree on that. A stage instruction would instruct everyone equally IMO. Seems like a local rule to me. It obviously wasn't to locate the shooter to a specific location because SG had to end up there and pistols had to be shot from there. 

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32 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

I see it as a stage instruction NOT a 'rule' !!

 

18 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

A stage instruction would instruct everyone equally IMO. Seems like a local rule to me.

 

One thing I thought about the other night that might get us to the root of that matter...

 

If this was a category specific instruction, what was the penalty?

 

Was it always a procedural?

 

Or was it considered shooting out of category and thus subject to the progressive procedural, stage DQ, match DQ penalty?

 

Quote

Shooting out of category – failure to adhere to category-specific requirements/restrictions.

 

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19 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

 

One thing I thought about the other night that might get us to the root of that matter...

 

If this was a category specific instruction, what was the penalty?

 

Was it always a procedural?

 

Or was it considered shooting out of category and thus subject to the progressive procedural, stage DQ, match DQ penalty?

 

 

Good question BWJ. 

I'd also hate for the TO ask the shooter why he shot the pistol before the butt stock was touching the box and have him answer "because it was faster" instead of "I forgot". That'd get into a whole new can of worms. Nah maybe not.

 

Just spit balling here but do you "have" to actually save time or just knowingly break a rule with the "intent" to save time?

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What would they call if Duelist was holding the shotgun and the barrels were touching the table but not the butt? 

 

Questions like these are what drag a walkthrough into the 2.5 hour plus category.

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
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23 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

What would they call if Duelist was holding the shotgun and the barrels were touching the table but not the butt? 

Not following Stage...was going to say Stage Instructions...but I don't know if that's an accurate description since the instructions didn't apply across the board.

 

I would think anything other than the Butt would be a procedural for not following the Category Specific Stage Instructions.

 

I would just love to know the thought process for implementing this Butt Rule. I don't care if it takes one more post or 10 more pages. Why can't it just be answered?

 

Phantom

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48 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

What would they call if Duelist was holding the shotgun and the barrels were touching the table but not the butt? 

 

Questions like these are what drag a walkthrough into the 2.5 hour plus category.

One has to ask what causes questions such as that? 

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I got a copy of the shooter's handbook in the mail this week to look over.  Even though I can't make it to a lot of the big shoots, I like to see how stages are written/set up and share that with our local shooters who never go anywhere else.

 

I will admit that I still have questions on some of the stages that I would have been asking the PM if I had been there (and hoped that it was being interpreted/implemented the same across the board).

 

Every stage instruction says the shooter is to "start at the ready" but then there's a comma and a different instruction for starting.

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46 minutes ago, Chief Rick said:

Every stage instruction says the shooter is to "start at the ready" but then there's a comma and a different instruction for starting.

 

Please note that I was not there, but, I would suspect that "start at the ready" was an override of the SASS default starting position.

 

SHB pg 13

Quote

If no starting position is given, the shooter shall stand upright with revolvers holstered, hands at the sides, and not touching any firearm. (SASS default).

 

If the staging simply stated, hands touching lamp post, the rest of the sass default of standing upright would apply. "start at the ready" would give the shooter permission to go all 'crouching tiger' if they wanted.

 

http://www.oowss.com/_RO_ Corner/EoT TG meeting 2016 (edited).pdf

Quote

Standing upright: If shooter is to start with hands on hat or other stance, they must remain standing upright until after the beep, unless stage instructions indicate otherwise.

 

Example: Just because the scenario states to point 1 hand downrange does not mean the shooter can have the other hand on the gun or bend down over the gun, unless stage instructions state otherwise. The other hand must be at SASS default, at side not touching guns and shooter must be standing upright.

 

Any exceptions to the “default” position DO NOT negate the other criteria.

 

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
added page reference number
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On 3/9/2022 at 8:11 PM, john brown said:

 I am confused and I wasn't even there.;)

Me too!! In fact I'm getting a headache!:lol:

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Me too!! In fact I'm getting a headache!:lol:

 

What does Richard Petty do when he gets a headache..... Takes a Goody's powder.

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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