mec bushing size for 14gr of Clays

[Last Call Saul]

Hi all...

 

I am looking into starting reloading my own 12 ga ammo...

 

basically after the research, it looks like 7/8 oz shot over 14gr of Clays is a very proven recipe in Win AA hulls, grey claybusters....

 

looking at the Hodgdon reference for Mec Bushings, it shows #27 for 14.6 and nothing lower for Clays....

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/mec_bushing_chart-2017.pdf

 

should I get #26? what do you load? anything else you can suggest?

 

and another question - I just inherited 8lbs of 700-x, still in the Dupont container... is there a good recipe for it?

[Long Fingers, SASS#56813]

Get the 26 and 27, bushings are cheap.  26 gives me closer to 14 grains with clay dot. 
13 to 14 grains of 700x will work well also. Check your bushing chart and buy a couple sizes in that range. 
“Do you reload 12 gauge”thread farther down the page has most of the data your looking for. 

LF. 

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Yep the 26 will work just fine.

[Coyote Kid, SASS#54714]

I have used a #25 with Clays for years. Works great.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Never trust those bushings to drop the amount MEC says it will. 

Get a Universal Charge Bar.

OLG 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

And the correct bushing size depends upon whether you have a "single-stage" or a progressive (multiple shells on the shell plate at once) design MEC loader.  With a single-shell loader, you put about 6 handle cycles into the powder to pack it into the bushing.   Only one cycle on each powder drop for a progressive loader.  Packing down the powder with multiple strokes adds about 10-20% more drop weight. 

 

So, you have to weigh the powder dropped by the bushing in your machine while actually running shells to see what it's going to give you.   Has been that way for as long as shotshell loaders have been made!  The published bushing charts are usually close if you are running a single-shell press like the 600 Jr.  The chart weights are higher than you will get on a progressive like the Grabber, Sizemaster or 9000.

 

An adjustable charging bar is really valuable if you do a lot of tinkering with loads.   But, THEY ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING MADE, so you have to look for a used one.  If you just want to set up for one powder weight and one shot weight, they are not worth the extra money and time setting them.

 

Cheapest way, get the size the chart calls for and the 2 next larger powder bushing than that size.  Yes, this is the most tedious part of learning to make your own shotshells.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[Last Call Saul]

thanks all for good suggestions.

 

I got a deal on 3 (three!) presses - 2 Mec 600 Jr and one Mec 650N, 8 lbs of 700-x, a 10g bucket of wads and AA hulls, 500 primers and 25lbs of shot - all for $150

 

they are way older than me...  the plan is to use one Jr for resizing and depriming since the 650 is missing the depriming die and then run them on 650....

 

it has no primer tray, but older long primer tube that fits the primer feeding tube - so yesterday, adjusted that to feed primers everytime, crimping looks good, but the charge bar is old - one that doesn't take bushings and there is a groove worn out on it from the arm....  

 

so far ordered the 502 bar, couple bushings and wil start playing with it

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

2 minutes ago, Last Call Saul said:

thanks all for good suggestions.

 

I got a deal on 3 (three!) presses - 2 Mec 600 Jr and one Mec 650N, 8 lbs of 700-x, a 10g bucket of wads and AA hulls, 500 primers and 25lbs of shot - all for $150

 

they are way older than me...  the plan is to use one Jr for resizing and depriming since the 650 is missing the depriming die and then run them on 650....

 

it has no primer tray, but older long primer tube that fits the primer feeding tube - so yesterday, adjusted that to feed primers everytime, crimping looks good, but the charge bar is old - one that doesn't take bushings and there is a groove worn out on it from the arm....  

 

so far ordered the 502 bar, couple bushings and wil start playing with it

I use a Super Sizer to size mine an then load on an old 650. I use a 27 bushing with Clays, Red Dot or Clay Dot, All are just over 14 gr and work fine with 7/8 oz loads.

 

Randy

[Last Call Saul]

Just now, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

I use a Super Sizer to size mine an then load on an old 650. I use a 27 bushing with Clays, Red Dot or Clay Dot, All are just over 14 gr and work fine with 7/8 oz loads.

 

Randy

any issues to use the 600 jr for resize?  I know that the ring resizing dies are worse than the supersizer, but it was free

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 minute ago, Last Call Saul said:

any issues to use the 600 jr for resize?  I know that the ring resizing dies are worse than the supersizer, but it was free

I know several folks that load on a Jr. and don't seem to have any problems. I use a Super Sizer because it was free.

 

Randy

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

1 minute ago, Last Call Saul said:

any issues to use the 600 jr for resize?  I know that the ring resizing dies are worse than the supersizer, but it was free

I replaced the resizing ring on my MEC Jr and now get satisfactory sizing.  BTW, MEC sells spare parts for its presses if you want to replace the missing parts.  If those AAs are the old style hull you got quite a purchase.

["Big Boston"]

https://www.mecoutdoors.com/Content/Images/uploaded/pdfs/PowderBushingChart.pdf

 

all bushings, #10 to #46. 

 

MEC revises their charts occasionally, good to check the old charts if you use old powder. Powders change over time. 

[Roscoe Regulator]

13 hours ago, Last Call Saul said:

Hi all...

 

I am looking into starting reloading my own 12 ga ammo...

 

basically after the research, it looks like 7/8 oz shot over 14gr of Clays is a very proven recipe in Win AA hulls, grey claybusters....

 

looking at the Hodgdon reference for Mec Bushings, it shows #27 for 14.6 and nothing lower for Clays....

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/mec_bushing_chart-2017.pdf

 

should I get #26? what do you load? anything else you can suggest?

 

and another question - I just inherited 8lbs of 700-x, still in the Dupont container... is there a good recipe for it?

Your load of:
7/8 shot

W209 primer

Win AA hull
grey wad

 

I also use with #8 chilled shot, and Extralite and Clays both give me 13.5 +-.1 using a MEC #25. That is to say I use the same setup for either and haven't noticed any difference in how they shoot. I also can use STS hulls with no changes in setup.

I also noticed that Clays and Extralite look the same, except maybe a shade toward green on the Clays.

[Yusta B.]

Here's a Mec Bushing chart. It's a PDF, you can print it. On page 2..

 

https://www.mecoutdoors.com/Content/Images/uploaded/pdfs/PowderBushingChart.pdf

[Flinthills Dawg]

#25 bushing for me throws a 10 round average of 14.16 of clays,,,, #26 bushing throws a 10 round average of 14.6  YMMV

[Sedalia Dave]

I have a first generation 600jr that is at least 40 years old. It is still going strong. They just need a little TLC.

 

As long as the shells have brass heads the sizer on the 600jr will work just fine. It'll size the steel heads but they will cause it to wear out pretty quickly. MEC makes a carbide version.

 

The old style MEC primer feed trays are a love hate relationship. Someday I'll try the new style. They are supposed to work better.

 

Use a powder baffle between the bottle and the charge bar. It'll make things more consistent. Not sure if they are still being made. Can be found used.

 

Buy a set of cheap cookie sheets and put one between the press and your bench to catch all the shot and powder you are going to spill. 

 

When you spill shot inspect the primer cup for shot. Shotgun primers are LOUD.

 

After loading run a brass bore brush through the drop tube. Being as these presses are old visually inspect the inside for corrosion. If it is corroded either polish it with steel wool wrapped around a bore brush or replace it.

 

Do not rely on the connection between the Shot bottle and the charge bar to hold a bottle full of shot when tipped over.

 

Don't trust the bottle fill plugs for powder or shot. They will fall out at the worst time.

 

My load data

AA Hull

WAA12L, WAA12SL or similar wad

14 grains of 700-X

7/8 oz of shot

primer of choice

Will make a nice SASS load. You can even drop down to 13 grains for an extra low recoil load.

[Sedalia Dave]

Yep it appears that covid has put MultiScale out of business

 

13 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

An adjustable charging bar is really valuable if you do a lot of tinkering with loads.   But, THEY ARE NOT CURRENTLY BEING MADE, so you have to look for a used one.  If you just want to set up for one powder weight and one shot weight, they are not worth the extra money and time setting them.

 

I love mine even though I don't tinker with me loads. I use it to make small adjustment in the shot charge to get the stack height to come out right.

 

At one time Unique Tek was going to start selling them. However when I checked their website I couldn't find them listed.

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Actually, they folded operations in 2018, IIRC.   Can't blame covid for their closing.  Folks on the Shotgun World forum have been complaining about no new MultiScale items for more than three years.

 

good luck, GJ

[Roscoe Regulator]

13 hours ago, Flinthills Dawg said:

#25 bushing for me throws a 10 round average of 14.16 of clays,,,, #26 bushing throws a 10 round average of 14.6  YMMV

How much or how often the MEC 600 Jr. slams effects how much the powder packs into the bushing.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Right on the MEC chart, read the fine print warning:

 

NOTE: Single stage machines will usually throw heavier charges than progressive reloading machines. For best accuracy of
powder loads, use an accurate scale.

[Roscoe Regulator]

1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Right on the MEC chart, read the fine print warning:

 

NOTE: Single stage machines will usually throw heavier charges than progressive reloading machines. For best accuracy of
powder loads, use an accurate scale.

It is more than that. You have to simulate actual loading conditions. You posted that a loading cycle jogs the powder drop quite a bit, giving a heavier charge. I threw back (set aside) the first couple drops and let the handle "slam" a few times. The difference approached a full grain. I am not sure what they meant, but who is going to weigh every charge to allow them the cop out of suggesting accurate scales. Their grammar is unclear.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Their grammar is quite clear enough for me.  Besides, I don't think you want to be a tech writer for MEC. 

 

Check Weigh loads when starting with a new bushing until you get a stable weight being dropped.  Cycle the machine as you would with real loading.  For a single-hull machine, put one hull through the entire cycle, and repeat until stable.  For a progressive, load up the shell plate with hulls.  (I take shells off after the powder drop station and that does not seem to badly affect the weight measurements, and saves me having to disassemble hulls). I find my first powder drop on my progressive loader is ALWAYS 10-12% heavier than the standard drop I get after the first hull or two.  So I dump powder from the first hull when I start loading and cycle the hull back through powder drop once again.

 

NO ONE weighs every shotshell powder drop.  NO ONE with any sense, at least.  

 

Those companies are NOT saying to only use a scale.  They are saying to use a scale to check how much powder your machine and your loading technique will  throw, and not just trust the charts.   Because they KNOW there is a lot of variation in how hard and fast folks try to cycle their machines.  There's CYA, and there's giving beginning loaders good solid advice to prevent dangerous loading.   The loader manufacturers are being quite wise, IMHO.

 

Besides, being off a half a grain of powder in a typical COWBOY level shotshell load is not even going to be noticeable.  Shotshell loading has no where near the need for precision as even plinking type metallic cartridge loading.  This is a shotgun action game you are loading for, not thousand yard sniper shooting with .338 Lapuas.

 

good luck, GJ

[Flinthills Dawg]

10 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

How much or how often the MEC 600 Jr. slams effects how much the powder packs into the bushing.

That is why I do a 10 round average any time I change loads

[Roscoe Regulator]

 

17 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Their grammar is quite clear enough for me.  Besides, I don't think you want to be a tech writer for MEC. 

 

Check Weigh loads when starting with a new bushing until you get a stable weight being dropped.  Cycle the machine as you would with real loading.  For a single-hull machine, put one hull through the entire cycle, and repeat until stable.  For a progressive, load up the shell plate with hulls.  (I take shells off after the powder drop station and that does not seem to badly affect the weight measurements, and saves me having to disassemble hulls). I find my first powder drop on my progressive loader is ALWAYS 10-12% heavier than the standard drop I get after the first hull or two.  So I dump powder from the first hull when I start loading and cycle the hull back through powder drop once again.

 

NO ONE weighs every shotshell powder drop.  NO ONE with any sense, at least.  

 

Those companies are NOT saying to only use a scale.  They are saying to use a scale to check how much powder your machine and your loading technique will  throw, and not just trust the charts.   Because they KNOW there is a lot of variation in how hard and fast folks try to cycle their machines.  There's CYA, and there's giving beginning loaders good solid advice to prevent dangerous loading.   The loader manufacturers are being quite wise, IMHO.

 

Besides, being off a half a grain of powder in a typical COWBOY level shotshell load is not even going to be noticeable.  Shotshell loading has no where near the need for precision as even plinking type metallic cartridge loading.  This is a shotgun action game you are loading for, not thousand yard sniper shooting with .338 Lapuas.

 

good luck, GJ

I am a tech writer. What you presume they meant is not what they wrote. Maybe spare the personal dismissals and stick to the practical side of loading.