Ranger Dan Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 Revolvers are first guns on the stage. For whatever reason (brain fart, etc), the shooter (non gunfighter or B-Western) draws and cocks both revolvers but does not fire a round. Can the shooter, with and under TO/RO guidance, restage with hammer down on empty chambers and restart the stage? Yes it is legal for the TO/RO to supervise decocking as PWB posted. But just how would you do this without a safety violation. You can't decock 1 and holster it while you decock the other and re-index the cylinder. The only way I see this is the shooter would have to cock/decock each pistol 4 more times without error. As TO/RO, I'm not sure I would want to do this. Gunfighters, would you attempt this? Remember neither revolver can leave your hand until the hammer is down on an empty chamber or expended cartridge. I'm curious, just how would you handle this situation?
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 Since you are already in the middle of a trainwreck, I only see two options: 1. fire both shots, holster, and go to the unloading table. 2. Go ahead and shoot this stage gunfighter, take your lumps (what is the penalty for shooting out of category... SDQ?) and know you are gonna be the target for some good humored ribbing.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 Are you asking about someone who is unable to decock then re-index one-handed?
Ranger Dan Posted June 14, 2021 Author Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Are you asking about someone who is unable to decock then re-index one-handed? I guess I'm asking if anyone can? Or would even try?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Ranger Dan said: I guess I'm asking if anyone can? Or would even try? I just did it using either hand with both Colt SAAs and a Ruger Vaqueros. So, yes...it can be done.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 If unable to do so SAFELY, refer to option #1 in CGB's post. (BTW, the penalty for option #2 is the progressive P/SDQ/MDQ)
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 I would have to think, under TO supervision, decocking 1st revolver, staging it safely on counter, table, ground- whatever, then decocking and re-indexing 2nd revolver, stage it, re-index 1st revolver and then proceed would be the way to go. and yes, I believe I could cock-recock my way around the cylinder safely, but I think would not be the best way. probably best to just expend the 2 rounds, go to ULT and start over. And take the hoorawin you are going to get from your Pards. of just take the P, shoot the stage gunfighter!
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 There is no provision in the rules allowing a revolver with the hammer down on an unfired round to leave the shooter's hand unless a malfunction has been declared. Shooter "brain fade" is not a firearm/ammo malfunction.
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: There is no provision in the rules allowing a revolver with the hammer down on an unfired round to leave the shooter's hand unless a malfunction has been declared. Shooter "brain fade" is not a firearm/ammo malfunction. You sure it’s not tucked in the back of RO III?
Ranger Dan Posted June 14, 2021 Author Posted June 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hoss said: I would have to think, under TO supervision, decocking 1st revolver, staging it safely on counter, table, ground- whatever, then decocking and re-indexing 2nd revolver, stage it, re-index 1st revolver and then proceed would be the way to go. and yes, I believe I could cock-recock my way around the cylinder safely, but I think would not be the best way. Yes that is the first method that comes to mind, you just earned a SDQ for the 1st revolver leaving your hand with a live round under the hammer. 1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: There is no provision in the rules allowing a revolver with the hammer down on an unfired round to leave the shooter's hand unless a malfunction has been declared. Shooter "brain fade" is not a firearm/ammo malfunction.
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 I'm liking my option #2 best. I'm here to have fun, otherwise I wouldn't shoot a 10ga 87! Since first penalty for shooting out of category is a simple P, enjoy shooting a stage gunfighter, and be dang sure not to screw up like that again. You are gonna be the butt of a few jokes, but everybody gets a turn at that. It isn't like there is a $10,000 prize for coming in first place.
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 36 minutes ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said: I'm liking my option #2 best. I'm here to have fun, otherwise I wouldn't shoot a 10ga 87! Since first penalty for shooting out of category is a simple P, enjoy shooting a stage gunfighter, and be dang sure not to screw up like that again. You are gonna be the butt of a few jokes, but everybody gets a turn at that. It isn't like there is a $10,000 prize for coming in first place. I think you are right. Shoot it GF and take the P and the ribbing. No caddy! but I do shoot on occasion with a guy that gets so bent out of shape if he gets a P he likely will pack up his guns and go home. It amazes me how some folks forget this is just a game!
Rye Miles #13621 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hoss said: I think you are right. Shoot it GF and take the P and the ribbing. No caddy! but I do shoot on occasion with a guy that gets so bent out of shape if he gets a P he likely will pack up his guns and go home. It amazes me how some folks forget this is just a game! That's what I would do! Just go ahead and shoot it GF and take the P, at least you'll have some fun to compensate for the P!
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: There is no provision in the rules allowing a revolver with the hammer down on an unfired round to leave the shooter's hand unless a malfunction has been declared. Shooter "brain fade" is not a firearm/ammo malfunction. Also can’t decock to avoid a penalty. So I guess the only option available is to take the P?
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hoss said: Also can’t decock to avoid a penalty. So I guess the only option available is to take the P? If no round has gone downrange...has the shooting out of category penalty already occurred? If the decock instructions have been given and the shooter is allowed a restart...did the decock instructions allow the avoidance of a penalty? Phantom
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: If no round has gone downrange...has the shooting out of category penalty already occurred? If the decock instructions have been given and the shooter is allowed a restart...did the decock instructions allow the avoidance of a penalty? Phantom If you were TO what would you do?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 The question re "de-cocking" was asked & answered yesterday. WTC - two cocked revolvers, non gun-fighter - SASS Wire - SASS Wire Forum (sassnet.com)
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hoss said: If you were TO what would you do? Decock Restart Phantom
Hoss Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Decock Restart Phantom Would you require him to hold both revolvers until at least one had an open chamber under hammer?
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, Hoss said: Would you require him to hold both revolvers until at least one had an open chamber under hammer? Yep
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 To reference another thread. Maybe the TO should just be quiet and see what happens!
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Ace_of_Hearts said: To reference another thread. Maybe the TO should just be quiet and see what happens! Awwwww...did someone's feelings get hurt? Come on. A request to de-cock and restart has NOTHING to do with the other thread. Add something relevant...or at least funny fer gawds sake. Phantom
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 This should not be confused with a gf experiencing a misfire or squib on the first round of a stage in pistols. He can declared a broken gun After asking for permission to make safe he can ground the offending pistol and then make the other pistol safe if it had been cocked. Then make the offending pistol safe if he can to restart the stage. Or go to unloading table.
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 Shooter: "May I decock?" TO: "Yes" Shooter: Decocks first pistol, reindexes, grounds/holsters with hammer down on empty chamber. Decocks second pistol, reindex, holster both guns with hammers down on empty chambers. Restart.
Silver Rings SASS # 27466 Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 Time is running. Shooter: may I decock? TO: think you can decock and reindex a pistol with just one hand? Shooter: why can't I use both hands? ETC! Time still running 45 seconds later. Shooter: I will just shoot GF. TO: good choice. Or Shooter: may I decock? TO: no! Shoot them.
Hoss Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Silver Rings SASS # 27466 said: Time is running. Shooter: may I decock? TO: think you can decock and reindex a pistol with just one hand? Shooter: why can't I use both hands? ETC! Time still running 45 seconds later. Shooter: I will just shoot GF. TO: good choice. Or Shooter: may I decock? TO: no! Shoot them. But What if he is shooting Blackhawks?
Ranger Dan Posted June 15, 2021 Author Posted June 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Silver Rings SASS # 27466 said: Time is running. Shooter: may I decock? TO: think you can decock and reindex a pistol with just one hand? Shooter: why can't I use both hands? ETC! Time still running 45 seconds later. Shooter: I will just shoot GF. TO: good choice. Or Shooter: may I decock? TO: no! Shoot them. OR Shooter: may I decock? TO: Yes Shooter: decocks left pistol and sets it on table / prop or holster Shooter: decocks right pistol and indexes cylinder to empty chamber and holsters Shooter: picks up left pistol and indexes cylinder to empty chamber and maybe realizes what he just did! TO: SDQ, pick up your guns and move to the unloading table.
Silver Rings SASS # 27466 Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Ranger Dan said: OR Shooter: may I decock? TO: Yes Shooter: decocks left pistol and sets it on table / prop or holster Shooter: decocks right pistol and indexes cylinder to empty chamber and holsters Shooter: picks up left pistol and indexes cylinder to empty chamber and maybe realizes what he just did! TO: SDQ, pick up your guns and move to the unloading table. Or Shooter: may I decock? TO: yes Shooter then attempt's to decock and cock pistol trying to get to the empty chamber, thumb slips off hammer, gun goes off striking table. TO: MDQ. Should have shot the guns.
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 15, 2021 Posted June 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, Silver Rings SASS # 27466 said: Or Shooter: may I decock? TO: yes Shooter then attempt's to decock and cock pistol trying to get to the empty chamber, thumb slips off hammer, gun goes off striking table. TO: MDQ. Should have shot the guns. Or maybe he/she just tries to shoot Gunfighter and ends up shooting up the table...or prop...or...person... Phantom
Hoss Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 I still kinda think RO III page 22 ought to rule. “TO uses his best judgment on a sticky situation” shooter: May I decock? TO: Decock 1 gun, place on table with muzzle safely pointed down range. Then decock 2nd pistol, re-index, place on table. Pick up pistol one. Re-index. Holster both pistols, take a deep breath and start over.
Silver Rings SASS # 27466 Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, Hoss said: I still kinda think RO III page 22 ought to rule. “TO uses his best judgment on a sticky situation” shooter: May I decock? TO: Decock 1 gun, place on table with muzzle safely pointed down range. Then decock 2nd pistol, re-index, place on table. Pick up pistol one. Re-index. Holster both pistols, take a deep breath and start over. This solution is too simple, too logical and too safe. I like it.
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 38 minutes ago, Silver Rings SASS # 27466 said: This solution is too simple, too logical and too safe. I like it. And it violates a SASS rule... And what a great deal for the T.O. Now he/she becomes liable. Wonderful...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 Get permission to de-cock and re-index SAFELY one-handed (or do one with one hand, then use both for the 2nd revolver) in order to RESTART. OR Request that the T/O allow FIRING the rounds "off the clock"; then reload, re-index, verify chamber positions and RESTART. OR Request that the T/O allow FIRING the rounds "off the clock"; go back to LT to reload & regroup. OR Request that the T/O allow FIRING the rounds "off the clock"; go to ULT, unload, show clear, then get back in line at the LT. OR Fire the rounds "on the clock" and accept the penalty.
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