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Calvera

.44 spec/colt/russian???

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Evenin' all...

 

Tried to find this topic but couldn't.  I have a pair of Cimarron 1872 Open Tops that fire a choice of .44 spec/colt/russian.  

Is one preferable to another in SASS?  

Maybe due to popularity in a cowboy round?  availability?  cost?

 

Which is the better choice?

I'd like to start buying some rounds to go shooting with....but unsure which way to go.

 

Thanks for yer time.

Calvera

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Pick the one you can load the cheapest. 

Look at Starline Brass for cost of cases. 

OLG 

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I have an open-top, and a Richards Type II, that I shoot .44 Colt, or .44 Russian in.  I shoot the .44 Special in my 1866 Saddle Ring Carbine. 

I just shoot the .44 Colt and/or the .44 Russian in my open-tops, because it is a little less recoil, than the .44 Special, but, having said that, I like the idea that I can shoot all three, if I am of a mind to.  The .44 Russian is the shorter of the three, and that is my number one go-to cartridge, for the revolvers.

As I understand it, the ..44 Colt cartridge, that is produced today, has slightly different dimensions, than the one produced back in the mid 1800's.  Never-the-less, Star-Line has them for sale, with the "44 Colt" on the base of the brass, and it is really gratifying to see that.    

It is the closest I can get, with modern "solid-head brass", to the originals, that my forbearers used.  I like the feeling, and idea of thinking this must have been pretty much how it felt, and how they experienced it, back then...or as close as I can get, in today's world.

I only use black-powder in my cartridges, but you could use smokeless as well. I believe the revolvers can stand up to smokeless.  Just use some common sense when reloading, for open-top designs. 

 

W.K.  

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4 hours ago, Calvera said:

Evenin' all...

 

Tried to find this topic but couldn't.  I have a pair of Cimarron 1872 Open Tops that fire a choice of .44 spec/colt/russian.  

Is one preferable to another in SASS?  

Maybe due to popularity in a cowboy round?  availability?  cost?

 

Which is the better choice?

I'd like to start buying some rounds to go shooting with....but unsure which way to go.

 

Thanks for yer time.

Calvera

Do you reload?

 

If no - .44 Special is going to be the most cost efficient.

 

If yes - .44 Russian has the least case capacity so will be more efficient at lower velocity/pressure.

 

.44 Russian = .956" OAL, .44 Colt = 1.095" OAL, .44 Special = 1.145" OAL.

 

500 pcs of Starline .44 Special is $110, 500 pcs of .44 Special is $116 while 500 pcs of .44 Russian is $115.

 

If you're only shooting it in pistols you don't have to worry about losing the brass and it should last forever as CAS velocity/pressure.

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Many thanks Chief Rick!  That was immensely helpful.  Haven't started to reload yet....maybe in the future.

 

I imagine that once the clubs start opening up again...getting cowboy rounds shouldn't be a challenge.

 

Thanks again.

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Thank you all as well.  Forgot to include this in the post.  But appreciate the community and its members for always helpin' newbies.

 

Calvera

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1 hour ago, Calvera said:

I imagine that once the clubs start opening up again...getting cowboy rounds shouldn't be a challenge.

 

Thanks again.

 

Don't buy "over the counter" by the box.  Use your Google-fu and find a bulk loader.  I did a quick search and came up with this right away.  There are more.

https://choiceammunition.com/product-category/cowboy-action/cowboy-action-44-44/cowboy-44-special/ 

 

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Thanks McCandless.  

I assume the 180 grain is the way to go on an Open Top vs the 200 grain?

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I reload , so I use 44 Russian [Starline] because it is a 'plainsman' rifle cartridge. Little recoil, accurate for SASS targets. I have 44 mag cases as well and my reloads reach out to about 100 yards. I would think that since you will be using pistols, the lower recoil might be preferable, your choice. 44 Russian is  a nice round that is very accurate, but you'll likely have to reload. I'm sure some SASS cartridge vendors must carry loaded ammo if you want to experiment.

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Thanks NCS.  

I'll be keeping my eye open for SASS vendors posting in the Classified.

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Posted (edited)

OP,

Here is a table of my reloading costs, at retail and bulk purchase

 

 

 

image.reloading.expense.cost.1024.sfw.jpg

Edited by bgavin
fiddling with the image

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Calvera, I aint McCandless, and haven't stayed in a Holliday Inn Express (that I admit too), but I have been shooting .44s for about 20 years.  Specifically, Open Top .44s which are also set up for 38 and 45, but that's another thread.

 

My recommend, until you get set up to reload would be the 180Gr 44Spl load listed in McCandless' reference.  The 180 will give a little less recoil in your Open Tops.

 

Once you're set up to reload, my suggestion would be 44 Russian cases with 165Gr Bullets and 4Gr TightGroup.  Very nice load indeed.  I personally run 44 Russian cases, 165Gr bullets in both Rifle (modified 1866) and Open Tops but with APP.

 

YOUR GONNA HAVE FUN!!

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 C.C. does somebody offer a ready made carrier, or is there some length tweak you did yourself?

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7 minutes ago, bgavin said:

 C.C. does somebody offer a ready made carrier, or is there some length tweak you did yourself?

Happy Trails makes it:

http://thesmithshop.com/cbs45.html

If you have a Henry, you could do it with just a setscrew.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Calvera said:

Many thanks Chief Rick!  That was immensely helpful.  Haven't started to reload yet....maybe in the future.

 

I imagine that once the clubs start opening up again...getting cowboy rounds shouldn't be a challenge.

 

Thanks again.

Don’t count on CAS ammo being available soon.  We are in the middle of another ammo shortage driven by panic buying.

Edited by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971
Premature post

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Panic buying/hoarding is a factor, but there ain't no ammo to buy right now even if there was no panic/hoarding going on.

 

I expect ammo in the popular brands and calibers to start showing up again in another month (Federal, Blazer, 9mm, .223).

 

Reman ammo will be a few weeks behind. Primer shortage may end about September (ammo manufacturers and remanufactures will get first and second allocations).

 

So if you want ammo, you have to wait for the pipeline to fill and produce the popular rounds and then "our" ammo will follow. And if reloading, we will see supplies after the big boys get up and running again.

 

My revolvers are chambered in .44 Special but I bought 1,000 rounds of .44 Russian since I am moving towards the Dark Side (black powder). When I bought it, it was still reasonably available without price gouging. Cowboy ammo is not cheap as it is practically obsolete.

 

If your interest is smokeless with reloading, I see no reason to switch out of .44 Special; the Russian (I'm told) seals better with black powder.

 

9mm plinking ammo was up 50% at that time (0.30 per round). My lady just now told me this same ammo is going for 0.80 per round. That is way more than I paid for the .44 Russian. There seems to be an upcharge for not adding a copper jacket.

 

Finding primers was a problem, especially buying without price gouging. I found a supply and since the price was fair, I laid in a good supply. (I also let this forum know about the remaining stock, and it is gone gone gone).

 

I have an order in for powder, hoping I put that in before stock ran out...

 

I still need lots of tools and other stuff that should be available. Anyway, be patient for a month or two and think about your direction in this sport (or other shooting activities). The primer factories are starting production again, don't pay through the nose for a year's supply of ammo that will be back in stock in a couple months. Then buy a year's supply and maintain it in the future.

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There is plenty of Black Hills cowboy ammo available, but it is always plenty expensive.

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7 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Calvera, I aint McCandless, and haven't stayed in a Holliday Inn Express (that I admit too), but I have been shooting .44s for about 20 years.  Specifically, Open Top .44s which are also set up for 38 and 45, but that's another thread.

 

My recommend, until you get set up to reload would be the 180Gr 44Spl load listed in McCandless' reference.  The 180 will give a little less recoil in your Open Tops.

 

Once you're set up to reload, my suggestion would be 44 Russian cases with 165Gr Bullets and 4Gr TightGroup.  Very nice load indeed.  I personally run 44 Russian cases, 165Gr bullets in both Rifle (modified 1866) and Open Tops but with APP.

 

YOUR GONNA HAVE FUN!!

Yep, you're running the same as me.

I also have a pair of those open tops great little guns.

If you're going to shoot black powder then the Russian is the way to go, with a 165gn pill.

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Check with your range for supplies.
Mine offers their huge buying power discount to range members.
Also, no Hazmat and no Shipping charges... this is worth up to $29 savings over mail order vendors.

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Thanks to all of you for the great info.  

I'll be keeping my eyes open in a month to see if things get back to normal to buy some ammo.

 

I'll be holding off on reloading equipment for now, unfortunately.  Need to buy my other guns and such.

 

Many thanks again.

 

Calvera

 

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Posted (edited)

Opinion on my part, but I do believe the supply problems will only get worse.
The politicians are starting the Second Wave of lock-downs.

Supply and Demand will dictate even high prices and more scarcity.
This will continue right up to the election and afterwards.

IMO, one should stock up on everything they need today, because it is only going to get worse.

I would like to be wrong about this... but do not think I am.

 

Edited by bgavin

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2 hours ago, Calvera said:

Thanks to all of you for the great info.  

I'll be keeping my eyes open in a month to see if things get back to normal to buy some ammo.

 

I'll be holding off on reloading equipment for now, unfortunately.  Need to buy my other guns and such.

 

Many thanks again.

 

Calvera

 

I recommend you find a year's worth of competition ammo now if you can, assuming you can find it at non-gouging prices. That is what I did; reloading is worth it but I don't have the time to learn it right now.

 

As to reloading, that gives you time to get the equipment, supplies, find a mentor, and time to learn. And a supply of your very own fired-once reloadable brass.

 

Once primers come available again (some seem to be showing up, but the supply chain is definitely not full) they will go to ammo manufacturers first, then remanufactures, and finally retail. So this is a tough time to get into reloading. I did find primers, and bullets are in my hands (thanks Scarlett!) and powder will show up this Thursday (double thanks Scarlett!). And I have no reloading press yet. I now have time to get equipment and learn reloading. I have focused on finding the key items assuming I can find the other tools and supplies. My hunt continues. Feel free to follow my reloading thread, it is a running record of my choices and decisions and you may find value in knowing where I make mistakes. Or spent too much.

 

Another separate thought... As ammo manufacturing gets going again, and tries to get ahead of the curve for demand (millions of new gun owners, and there still is very little toilet paper on store shelves...) so folks will still want to lay in a case or two of ammo. What ammo? 9mm, .223, all the "common" stuff. Find your cowboy ammo now if you can. It is not a high demand item so it may still be reasonable to find. Maybe. But the major ammo makers are going to focus on bread and butter rounds, jacketed or hollow point bullets, so all-lead cowboy ammo will not be a priority.

 

So the advice I was given considering your pistols is .44 Special if you are going to reload smokeless, .44 Russian (my choice for my revolvers) if you are going to the dark side (black powder or subs).

 

Any thought on your your rifle caliber yet? Advice I was given was to try and run the same ammo in both pistol and rifle. That is advice I did not take, my rifle is chambered in 44-40. But I'm going to the dark side so not a big deal.

 

And if I did not say it earlier, welcome to the game! I'm new too.

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Thanks again for much more info.

 

John...As to my idea on rifle caliber?  Maybe...the .44 spec.  To keep it the same.

As I'm very new to this...the rifle was going to be last purchase.  Wanted to ask advice.  Maybe shot a couple. 

 

If I went off by sight...it would be 1866.  

I see you mentioned 44-40, those are Taylor & Co. right?  I think Cimarron is the one with .44 spec.

 

I do like the saddle ring look or the Pawnee (with studs).

 

 

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