Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 My Hornady Tungsten Carbide 10mm RESIZING die is advertised as 'Nitrite coated'. Would this particular Tungsten Carbide die with Nitrite coating wear? I ask because it appears my resized brass isn't gripping my bullets snug enough. And the die may have worn somewhat, like maybe .000? With the Hornady die, I can resize only and still seat the bullet without having to flare the case mouth. I have mic'd resized brass with the Hornady and compared to brass resized with a new RCBS carbide die, The RCBS resizes the brass approx .001 smaller. This difference is actually preventing my bullets from being pushed down in the brass when I use the RCBS resizing die. P.S. - Yes, I have mic'd my bullets, case wall thickness, etc..... and all the variables seem to be correct for all other components. Any thoughts, comments or experience is appreciated. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Call Hornady. Tell them the problem and they will probably send you another die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Are you trying the bullet for fit right after sizing? Or after running it through the expander die then trying it? I've never worn a carbide die out. I have opened a few up when I felt they sized too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 There's more than one type of Carbide. Tungsten is the hardest. I'm using TC sizing dies that are 35+ years old. Ck your case wall thickness and make sure you have the correct expander installed. Have you confirmed bullet diameter? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said: Are you trying the bullet for fit right after sizing? Or after running it through the expander die then trying it? 1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: With the Hornady die, I can resize only and still seat the bullet without having to flare the case mouth. Reads to me like it is right after sizing, without belling the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Wade Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Do they really say CARBIDE or just nitrate coated? Nitrate is just a surface hardener, my carbide dies have a visual ring of carbide inserted into the end of the die. Yes I believe the coating could wear off. GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 Sixgun: I might do that. For now, I'm gonna use a borrowed RCBS die and see how it works out. Thanks for your reply. Warden: I first noticed some bullets were moving after using my Expander die. So then I STOPPED using my Expander die and started seating bullets in RESIZED only brass. This process, along with a good taper crimp (Lee factory crimp die) help give a more 'snug' fit and help eliminate bullet movement on 'some' rounds. What concerns me is being able to seat bullets of proper size (.400) into a resized only case with no difficulty. I had no problem with any crinkling of brass pushing those bullets down into the 'resized only' cases. Thanks for replying, Warden. Lumpy: My brass is Starline and I also use some SIG branded nickeled brass that I bought NEW and loaded from the factory. Seems I have the problem with both AND..... the case wall thickness is the same. Yes, I have confirmed bullet diameter on 3 types of bullets I use: Berry's thick plate, Speer Gold Dot HP and Sierra V-Crown. Thanks Lumpy. Alpo: Yes, some of my issues are with resizing only. Thanks for replying. G.W.: These dies are actually called....'Titanium Nitride'. Item #544533. The Ti ring is inserted into the bottom of the dies, just like my other carbide dies. EXCEPT this ring looks goldish (or brassy) in color. I bought this die set a few years back and never seem to have any issues before..... although I don't reload massive amounts of 10mm. And the LEE factory crimp die is really good. It give a beautiful taper crimp. But even a beautiful taper crimp can't overcome cases that seemingly haven't been properly resized. I agree with you in that I also think some coating has worn, which could be the problem. Thank you for you reply. I might just buy me a new set of REDDING dies for the 10mm. I like Redding and RCBS dies and have great performance with them. Y'all have a great day. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Look at the Dillon size die. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 For all the Pards following this thread: HERE ARE THE LASTEST TEST RESULTS IN MY 10MM RELOADING: With the Hornady 'resizing' only die and NOT using the expander die, I can successfully seat bullets (Berry's, Sierra V-Crown and Speer Gold Dot) with NO crimping...... and they WILL NOT move in the case. I still apply the Lee factory crimp for consistency. Overall length stays at 1.255 NOTE: YES, the bullets will seat without expanding the case mouth. This probably has everything to do with the resizing diameter of the Hornady die. ALL bullets mic'd at .400 With the RCBS resizing die AND expander die, I can seat those same bullets WITHOUT CRIMPING, and they will not move in the case. I still apply the Lee factory crimp for consistency. OAL stays at 1.255 NOTE: I tested to see if those bullets would seat WITHOUT expanding the case mouth.... and NO, they would not. This is because the RCBS resizing die resized those cases a tad smaller than the Hornady. My 'push test' is pretty sufficient. I put the bullet against the table top and with both hands and some body weight, I push down hard. Probably much harder than any recoil could effect bullet movement in the case. CONCLUSION: I may just keep the HORNADY resizing die and use it...... without using the Expander die. This will still give me good case resizing and save me time from having to use the Expander process. If this info helps anyone..... then its been worthwhile in sharing. Thanks for all the input. And for those interested, at the case mouth measurement, my LEE factory crimp die is set to give me approx .003-004 crimp squeeze. I think the excepted standard for taper crimping is .004 ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 FWIW: With the Dillon size die I have, that's over 20 yrs old. I have to use the expander to put the bullet in the case. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 How do the Hornady-sized cartridges fit in a case gauge and/or chamber in your gun? If the bullet is snug after crimping and they feed & chamber without issues, it seems the difference in dies doesn’t really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said: How do the Hornady-sized cartridges fit in a case gauge and/or chamber in your gun? If the bullet is snug after crimping and they feed & chamber without issues, it seems the difference in dies doesn’t really matter? Howdy Abilene. Good question, of which I think I have a good answer. Basically, the 'crimp' die is to 'help' hold the bullet in its position in the case but its my understanding that the main reason for crimping is to help assist in the smoothness of the ammo being fed from the mag into the chamber without the case mouth snagging on the chamber entrance. From what I have read in the past, the bullet should be held in position basically by a tight fit in the case. In other words..... Loose fit in the case, regardless of crimp strength, can still allow the bullet to move in the case. AND.... a tight fit in the case, even without any crimp, will hold the bullet in place. My bullets were snug after crimping, but not snug enough. I had taken some reloads, filled up the mag and inserted the mag in the pistol. Then chambered a round. When I ejected (extracted) that round, it had set back in the case, which could have been some bad mojo if I had fired it. Basically, it became a compressed load, which isn't what I needed in a 10mm. I have mic'd and multiple re-mic'd the brass sized by the RCBS and Hornady dies. The RCBS resized to .419 and the Hornady resized to .420 I may not fully understand why .001 would make a significant different, especially when I apply a good taper crimp, but I do know the different results I am getting when using both of those dies. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Widder, for what it is worth from my considerable years or reloading, buy Dillon dies for pistol cartridges and Redding dies for all others. I have used some RCBS "Cowboy" dies for 38-55 as the Redding expander was too small for lead bullets needed with a large bore diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: Widder, for what it is worth from my considerable years or reloading, buy Dillon dies for pistol cartridges and Redding dies for all others. I have used some RCBS "Cowboy" dies for 38-55 as the Redding expander was too small for lead bullets needed with a large bore diameter. Happy Jack...... Thanks. Lumpy also recommends the Dillon dies. Right now, I might just stick with the Hornady resize die with NO case mouth expander process. But I do like Dillon products and based on good recommendations from a couple Wire Pards, I may order me a Dillon. I'm starting to reload for the .460 Roland and if Dillon makes a set of Carbide dies for that caliber, I'll probably get it from them. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Remove all dought. Pry open your wallet, and get the Dillon size die. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Lumpy, I'm sooooooo tight with my money that the last time I opened up my wallet, ole George Washington squinched his eyes cause it had been a long time since he had seen day light. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Widder ; I have a Set of the Hornady Dies in .45 Colt and they still size just like new, with over 350,000 loads on them .... But Hornady is a Great Company to deal with if you have a problem ... Have a Great Day ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Good to hear from you Jabez. Yea, I had thought about contacting Hornady, and I still might. But last night, I resized NEW brass with the Hornady. WITHOUT using the expander die, I was able to seat the bullets. And Yes, I chamfered the case mouths also. Before using the LEE factory crimp die, I tried darn hard to push that bullet further into the case using my arm strength pushing against the table top. NO MOVEMENT. I then applied the LEE crimp, which gives me a squeeze on the case mouth of about .003-004 If I have to say so myself, its a beautiful, almost unnoticeable crimp which allows a smooth movement of the rounds going into the chamber. I loaded up 50 rounds with this process and had NO crinkling of the brass when the bullets were seated. Thanks for your comment. Have a great day. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Sometimes it's just a matter of Tech-Knee-Que Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Sometimes it's just a matter of Tech-Knee-Que Yep. I may not have been holding my mouth right..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 15 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Remove all dought. Pry open your wallet, and get the Dillon size die. OLG dought Noun (usually uncountable, plural doughts) manhood, virtue the age of manhood, maturity virility, manly power or strength; excellence (collectively) men, people a company, army, retinue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Howdy Patriot. Obviously, there is no doubt in your mind who is in dought! Is it possible to be out of dought? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Howdy Patriot. Obviously, there is no doubt in your mind who is in dought! Is it possible to be out of dought? ..........Widder And spell-check deepens the 'doubt' even more. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Hey Widder ; I shoot the Original 40 ,,, .38-40 This is My Favorite Caliber for use with Black Powder in my 66 ... My lead bullets measure .401 in mostly re-formed Star-line .44-40 Brass, yes I know Star-line makes .38-40 brass but at $90 dollars more than .44-40 brass ... One trip through my sizing die and ,,,,38-40 Brass ready to Flare the mouths and Load ... I love the Lee Factory Crimp die as modified by me it gives me a great crimp ... I am not worried about bullets pushing back into the case ,,, instead it is to keep the bullet from creeping ahead out of the case ... I load 34.4 grains of 3F Goex ... Still waiting to shoot with you ..... The Invite is still open ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 11 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Howdy Patriot. Obviously, there is no doubt in your mind who is in dought! Is it possible to be out of dought? ..........Widder I never doubt a man’s dought. They might sic their woman in you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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