Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Recommended Posts

Stage instructions:

 

Dump nine rounds on target 1

 

What happened:

 

Shooter successfully hits target 1 with 10 rounds.

 

The three spotters were all in agreement, without any doubt, that the shooter hit the target with 10 rounds.

 

WTC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P

 

Quote

Should the shooter fire more rounds than called for in the stage, it would be a “P” for using ammunition that was illegally acquired....

 

http://www.californiagunslingers.com/Overload.pdf

 

More official link: http://www.oowss.com/Overloading the rifle -- PWB.pdf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P for not following stage instructions. 
 

had he just overloaded his rifle he could have just jacked out the extra round with no penalty. 
 

if he overloaded his rifle, shooter cannot use the overloaded round to make up a previously jacked out round. That would be a P and a M. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hoss said:

P for not following stage instructions. 
 

had he just overloaded his rifle he could have just jacked out the extra round with no penalty. 
 

if he overloaded his rifle, shooter cannot use the overloaded round to make up a previously jacked out round. That would be a P and a M. 

Lord help me - I'm with Hoss on this one ......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hoss said:

P for not following stage instructions. 
 

had he just overloaded his rifle he could have just jacked out the extra round with no penalty. 
 

if he overloaded his rifle, shooter cannot use the overloaded round to make up a previously jacked out round. That would be a P and a M. 

 

IIRC the shooter would have had to jack out the 10th round to avoid the P for an over loaded rifle.

 

If he jacked out any of the first 9 and used the 10th round in the rifle to make up for the jacked out round the shooter still earns a P for illegally acquired ammo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

IIRC the shooter would have had to jack out the 10th round to avoid the P for an over loaded rifle.

 

If he jacked out any of the first 9 and used the 10th round in the rifle to make up for the jacked out round the shooter still earns a P for illegally acquired ammo.

And a miss for not hitting the target with the first 9 rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

And a miss for not hitting the target with the first 9 rounds.

OP says he hit the target with ten rounds.  Where is the miss? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

OP says he hit the target with ten rounds.  Where is the miss? 

The first 9 are the only legally acquired rounds in the rifle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The penalty of using “illegally acquired” ammunitions (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) is a PROCEDURAL.  Any targets hit using that ammo are scored as MISSES.  NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time. 

SHB p.19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's where our current rule set makes for a very strange result.

 

I'll accept that - if we consider the current definition for ILLEGALLY ACQUIRED ammo to include that 10th round carried in the rifle to the line - then you would score the OP scenario as a P and a Miss.   Because the 10th round was used to HIT the last target engaged - but since it was illegal ammo at that point, the Hit is scored a Miss.

 

Now consider that the shooter missed with that 10th shot.   Penalty scored for THAT would be just a P.

 

More penalty is assigned the shooter for using that illegal ammo to hit the tenth target  (P + Miss) than to miss that target (only P).

 

That does not seem a reasonable result.  Meaning the rules don't quite hold together logically in this particular and rather rare case.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And a miss for not hitting the target with the first 9 rounds.

the stage instruction was "dump 9 rounds on target 1" wouldn't jacking out any round have saved a penalty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Here's where our current rule set makes for a very strange result.

 

I'll accept that - if we consider the current definition for ILLEGALLY ACQUIRED ammo to include that 10th round carried in the rifle to the line - then you would score the OP scenario as a P and a Miss.   Because the 10th round was used to HIT the last target engaged - but since it was illegal ammo at that point, the Hit is scored a Miss.

 

Now consider that the shooter missed with that 10th shot.   Penalty scored for THAT would be just a P.

 

More penalty is assigned the shooter for using that illegal ammo to hit the tenth target  (P + Miss) than to miss that target (only P).

 

That does not seem a reasonable result.  Meaning the rules don't quite hold together logically in this particular and rather rare case.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

It would only be a miss if the shooter used the extra round to replace an ejected round. (i.e. USE OF illegally acquired ammunition")

There are only 9 possible misses for that shooting string.

Firing the extra round is a "P" for firing more rounds than allowed/required for the rifle shooting string.

 

Quote

2) If a shooter fires the extra round.... Shoots the 9 targets, and dumps the extra round into the back of the bay. What is the call? Is it a "P" for firing 10 rounds when the stage called for 9? 
 
YES...according to the WB mandate. The round MAY NOT BE FIRED to clear the rifle.

NOTE: This is NOT the same as loading 2 in a shotgun and firing one (or both) at a target or firing the "extra" round downrange. The shotgun is generally NOT "preloaded" at the loading table. 

SOURCE

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Pea Eye Parker said:

And a miss for not hitting the target with the first 9 rounds.

the stage instruction was "dump 9 rounds on target 1" wouldn't jacking out any round have saved a penalty?

No.  I suspect not.  The illegally acquired 10th  round cannot be legally used to hit a target.  The shooter could jack out the tenth (improperly loaded) rd and then reload another legally acquired round and fire it at and hit a target without penalty, I believe. (not totally sure though) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

No.  I suspect not.  The illegally acquired 10th  round cannot be legally used to hit a target.  The shooter could jack out the tenth (improperly loaded) rd and then reload another legally acquired round and fire it at and hit a target without penalty, I believe. (not totally sure though) 

 

That's the thing that I was trying to remember in the other thread!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

No.  I suspect not.  The illegally acquired 10th  round cannot be legally used to hit a target.  The shooter could jack out the tenth (improperly loaded) rd and then reload another legally acquired round and fire it at and hit a target without penalty, I believe. (not totally sure though) 

I'm still new at this so you are probably correct but in my mind, the instructions are dump 9 rounds on target 1. If the shooter only shoots 9 rounds and ejects 1 I have trouble seeing were it matters if the extra round that isjacked out is the first round or the 10th round. He still only fired 9 shots. It good to read how these are scored to prevent me from making a mistake.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Pea Eye Parker said:

I'm still new at this so you are probably correct but in my mind, the instructions are dump 9 rounds on target 1. If the shooter only shoots 9 rounds and ejects 1 I have trouble seeing were it matters if the extra round that is jacked out is the first round or the 10th round. He still only fired 9 shots. It good to read how these are scored to prevent me from making a mistake.

 

It DOES matter.

Please read this:
http://www.oowss.com/Overloading the rifle -- PWB.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PW

The line 24 on your PDF no longer applies as in the shooter can pick up and use dropped/ejected ammo.

Very nice summary of the conditions for overloading the rifle.

Ike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

PW

The line 24 on your PDF no longer applies as in the shooter can pick up and use dropped/ejected ammo.

Very nice summary of the conditions for overloading the rifle.

Ike

 

Thanks.
The SHB page numbers are "off" as well. That was written 9 years ago.

I'll get it updated to current refs and regs sometime soon 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.