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Shifty Bob

basic rules assistance

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Posted (edited)

 

 

2 hours ago, bgavin said:


Now I'm confused.

Lifted from the v23.2 handbook:

B-Western Leather Rules:
- Buscadero holster rigs or drop holster rigs are required. All revolvers must be carried below the top of the gun belt

 

I have a drop holster for BW. It is not a Buscadero (although I have one of those two). It looks like this.

Image result for ted blocker dixie bell

 

 

 

Edited by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217
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From the images I've seen, my understanding is the Buscadero style has a slot in the belt where the holster attaches.
The drop is in the belt itself.

In your drop holster shown above, the drop is in the holster, not the belt.
The holster attaches to the belt as a loop.
 

image.buscadero.01.sfw.jpg

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Hi Bruce,

 

That would not be suitable for BW as it has no bling.  The keys for BW holsters are bling and the butt of the pistol being below the top of the belt. The legality isn't based on how the holster attaches to the belt.

 

Here is my Buscadero.

 

My Holsters.jpg

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Neither of us is particularly interested in bling.

As I learn my way through rule book, what I don't want to do is spend $$$ in leather, only to find I can't use it.
My hardware already excludes us from Classic Cowboy, Frontiersman, and the other classes that are black power or percussion.

We are interested in shooting 357 and 12-gauge, dressing "western" and having a great social experience.
The age-based categories seem to be where we fit.

I'm curious if there is any mechanical advantage to Buscadero vs Drop Holster styles.
It appears the difference is solely how the holster mounts to the belt.

 

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5 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Neither of us is particularly interested in bling.

As I learn my way through rule book, what I don't want to do is spend $$$ in leather, only to find I can't use it.
My hardware already excludes us from Classic Cowboy, Frontiersman, and the other classes that are black power or percussion.

We are interested in shooting 357 and 12-gauge, dressing "western" and having a great social experience.
The age-based categories seem to be where we fit.

I'm curious if there is any mechanical advantage to Buscadero vs Drop Holster styles.
It appears the difference is solely how the holster mounts to the belt.

 

 

Buscadero holsters require you to position the holsters where the belt has the drops. A drop holster is superior in that you get to position the holsters exactly where you want them on the belt instead.

As for fitting in to the costumes, not a huge deal, the age based categories are by far the most attended and where most people fit in since it was designed to suit the vast majority of shooters.

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I think Buscadero refers to the holster being fastened to the belt by a wide loop that fits in a slot in the belt.  If the loop goes over the belt, it's not a Buscadero but can still be a drop holster if the loop is long enough to put the butt of the pistol below the top of the belt. 

 

 

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Hi Bruce,

 

I do like bling (not too much). I had that Buscadero made so I could shoot BW. I wore it for several years shooting in age-based categories. By the time I had enough boots to shoot BW at an annual (I don't like to wear the same pair of boots for four days as that makes my feet hurt to be in the exact same position that long), I'd gained so much weight that the holsters were too far back. I saw a great deal from a friend selling the other (tan) belt on the SASS classifieds and liked that it was worn at the waist with no SG shell belt needed.

 

If you don't bling, you can rule out BW as "All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy." However, you can wear bling in other categories too. The exception where drop loop holsters may not be worn is Classic Cowboy.

 

Ripsaw is correct. I found the following definition of a Buscadero holster using Google. "The gun belt and holster known as the Buscadero was originally designed for Texas lawmen (I imagine these were not blingy) and the Hollywood cowboys in the 1920's. The rig combines a carved leather gunbelt with one or two holsters. The holster is held in place by an elongated slot in the gun belt or sewn to the belt." So the belt you posted is a Buscadero.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Someone say bling......

20181229_160601_optimized.jpg

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On 5/5/2019 at 8:18 PM, Ripsaw said:

I'm working on the matrix I mentioned earlier. Will share after it's been reviewed locally by those smarter than I. 

That will help people those who don't have any idea what is needed.

After the many posts and reading all over the web I think I figured it out.

A simple worded up front explanation/matrix would make things much easier to understand.

The rules read like someone who had been doing it for many years wrote them.

I'm going to get a drop holster rig, jeans and a shirt and shoot dualist.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2019 at 9:18 AM, Griff said:

And WHATEVER you do, do NOT rely on answers provided on the SASS Wire!  For frankly, I'm a little dismayed at some of the answers you've been given.  The .38/.357 is perfectly legal in EVERY category, except Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl!  Even Frontiersman & Frontier Cartridge!  In those two categories, it's the PROPELLANT, not the cartridge that matters.  I say that because, although Frontiersman requires the use of percussion revolvers, you're still going to be using a cartridge rifle in that category.

 

The rules make it complicated and the experienced cowboys cant understand what's not clear. It's taken me quite a bit of time to get the answers. Maybe it's because I am an aerospace engineer and they didn't have them back when cowboys were roaming the range. There should be a category called Basic Cowboy/Cowgirl 38/357 smokless, 12 gauge, drop holster, jeans, shirt, boots. That's my humble opinion in the spirit of the game. Every sport needs more participants.

Edited by Shifty Bob

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I picked up a stoger Coach Gun. Geeze took some work to get it open. Lots of polishing and I have it pritty slicked up now. I have several other hobbies and it's been taking me awhile to get the cowboy fun started. Thanks so much for all the great help on this forum.

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1 minute ago, Shifty Bob said:

 

The rules make it complicated and the experienced cowboys cant understand what's not clear. It's taken me quite a bit of time to get the answers. Maybe it's because I am an aerospace engineer and they didn't have them back when cowboys were roaming the range. There should be a category called Basic. 38/357 smokless, 12 gauge, drop holster, jeans, shirt, boots. That's my humble opinion in the spirit of the game. Every sport needs more participants.

 

There is, it's called cowboy/cowgirl. Page 5 of the shooters handbook:


 

Quote

 

- May use any main match revolver.

- Revolvers may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style – EXCEPT Gunfighter.

- May use any SASS legal main match shotgun and any legal main match rifle.

- May use any SASS legal ammunition.

 

 

 

Should add any SASS legal holsters and basic clothing(jeans, long sleeves, and any legal SASS shoes).

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

There is, it's called cowboy/cowgirl. Page 5 of the shooters handbook:

 

Cowboy states only any age. No mention of what's needed.

 

 

Quote


 

 

 

Should add any SASS legal holsters and basic clothing(jeans, long sleeves, and any legal SASS shoes).

 

 

Edited by Shifty Bob

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2 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

 

Cowboy states only any age.

 

 

 

 

No, it lists exactly what I quoted above, it is the basic Category that allows anything.

Cowboy.PNG.436a4860acbc75aca39d974e6e6b847e.PNG

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

No, it lists exactly what I quoted above, it is the basic Category that allows anything.

Cowboy.PNG.436a4860acbc75aca39d974e6e6b847e.PNG

 

 

Yes it does. I see it shows the guns and ammunition. Thanks

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28 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

I picked up a stoger Coach Gun. Geeze took some work to get it open. Lots of polishing and I have it pritty slicked up now. I have several other hobbies and it's been taking me awhile to get the cowboy fun started. Thanks so much for all the great help on this forum.


I am still short of my Stoeger, been to busy with trying to move out of CA.
I'm looking forward to a blue version of the Coach Supreme.

My pair of SASS Vaqueros is still held up in CA waiting period... after my FFL screwed up and had to start the process all over again.
CA requires a 30 day waiting period between handguns, even if they are a matched set.

There is a whole lot of knowledge and experience on this site.
Your choice of weapons will determine any class limitations.
For example, I am entirely in .357, so not allowed in Classic Cowboy.

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54 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

 

...Maybe it's because I am an aerospace engineer...


I understand that. 
I'm a computer systems engineer, with a similar mind set.

I am (less now) struggling with the rules.
My wife and I will shoot in the Age Based categories, where B-Western bling is not required.
I choose to shoot entirely with .357 (Vaqueros and Marlin) and an internal hammer Stoeger coach gun.
These prevent me from shooting Classic Cowboy and a few others... I'm OK with that.

I'm here entirely for the fun of the game and the social life.
I'll never be a Top 10 shooter, nor do I need that recognition.

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On 5/7/2019 at 10:45 AM, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Bruce,

 

That would not be suitable for BW as it has no bling.  The keys for BW holsters are bling and the butt of the pistol being below the top of the belt. The legality isn't based on how the holster attaches to the belt.

 

Here is my Buscadero.

 

My Holsters.jpg

Hey AM, I think those drop holsters have plenty of bling.  OK not as much as your black rig but workable in BW.  More bling can be added in the dress if desired.

You got the bling.

BTW...I have on of Kirkpatricks first LH9 rigs that dropped enough to be considered BW legal.  Of course, ya know me, it has plenty of spots for bling. :D

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In my opinion, the biggest mistake a new shooter can make is to try to gear up before attending at least one match. More is better.

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48 minutes ago, bgavin said:


I understand that. 
I'm a computer systems engineer, with a similar mind set.

I am (less now) struggling with the rules.
My wife and I will shoot in the Age Based categories, where B-Western bling is not required.
I choose to shoot entirely with .357 (Vaqueros and Marlin) and an internal hammer Stoeger coach gun.
These prevent me from shooting Classic Cowboy and a few others... I'm OK with that.

I'm here entirely for the fun of the game and the social life.
I'll never be a Top 10 shooter, nor do I need that recognition.

Just a thought...

 

As my friend Badlands Bud has said: if I can't compete, I won't have fun. If I don't have fun, I won't compete.

 

Phantom

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Posted (edited)

Shifty Bob and bgavin  I have seen both of you post about only using .357. just remember we shoot mild loads, max 1000fps in pistols and 1400 fps in rifles. Magnum( hot, powerful,jacket bullets )ammo is prohibited. Lots of us down load in .357 cases for a variety of reasons.  Also most people use a separate shotgun belt but not all. I have 5 pairs of shotgun loops on my main belt, and wear it buckle to the rear much like the outfit AM pictured earlier. I like only wearing one belt, yes it was custom made and not too expensive 15 years ago when i had it done. Welcome to the game, hope to meet both y'all down the road.

 

Imis Oh and get yourself a good hat

Edited by Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646

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1 minute ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Shifty Bob and bgavin  I have seen both of you post about only using .357. just remember we shoot mild loads, max 1000fps in pistols and 1400 fps in rifles. Magnum( hot, powerful,jacket bullets )ammo is prohibited. Lots of us down load in .357 cases for a variety of reasons.  Also most people use a separate shotgun belt but not all. I have 5 pairs of shotgun loops on my main belt, and wear it buckle to the rear much like the outfit AM pictured earlier. I like only wearing one belt, yes it was custom made and not too expensive 15 years ago when i had it done. Welcome to the game, hope to meet both y'all down the road.

 

Imis Oh and get yourself a good hat


Thank you kindly for your warm welcome.

For me, CAS is a hubby+wife sport.
My bride is a killer shot on a long gun, but recoil averse from her daddy's 10-gauge and '06 rifle.

My intent is easing her into the sport with the lowest possible recoil.
This is mouse fart 38 handgun loads, and "AA" featherlites in the SxS.
She won't have a single bit of hesitation about shooting the 1894CB.

From what I see so far, if a person is cost-conscious, CAS is the wrong game to be in at all.
Here in CA the range fees, cowboy range fees, club fees, distance, clothing, waiting periods, licenses, safety courses, and FFL ammo purchases are not cheap.
We are in it for both the fun of shooting and the social life.
 

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1 minute ago, bgavin said:


Thank you kindly for your warm welcome.

For me, CAS is a hubby+wife sport.
My bride is a killer shot on a long gun, but recoil averse from her daddy's 10-gauge and '06 rifle.

My intent is easing her into the sport with the lowest possible recoil.
This is mouse fart 38 handgun loads, and "AA" featherlites in the SxS.
She won't have a single bit of hesitation about shooting the 1894CB.

From what I see so far, if a person is cost-conscious, CAS is the wrong game to be in at all.
Here in CA the range fees, cowboy range fees, club fees, distance, clothing, waiting periods, licenses, safety courses, and FFL ammo purchases are not cheap.
We are in it for both the fun of shooting and the social life.
 

bgavin   Lots of folks hear about CAS, get excited and buy a bunch of stuff that will work, but maybe not very well before they ever attend their first match. Those of us that have been around this game a while advise new folks to go to a match and not buy anything for a while. I think you were given that advice awhile back. Most of us have equipment we no longer use including guns. Local clubs often have members willing to thin the herd. Im glad your wife wants to shoot too. Jersey Bratt has been shooting with me for several years and she loves the whole CAS scene. It sure makes a difference to have an interested mate. So back to cost, lots of bigboy hobbies are WAY more expensive than Cowboy. Have you priced golf clubs lately? Or racing engines for a dragster? Or lots of other wonderful stuff? Its worth it to get to play this game. See you down the trail

 

Imis

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Posted (edited)

I already have a significant investment in 357 caliber guns.
Already have a Vaquero too.
I added the 1894CB because it is also in 357.
All of these I can enjoy (after leaving CA) even if I never shoot CAS at all.

I rented a Super Redhawk at the local range and a box of 44-mag.
That got the Jones out of me, pronto.
Nor do I have any interest at all in black powder or percussion.

So far, the only item I invested in is a nice Stetson.
The first CAS-only purchase will be a Stoeger coach gun, which I have not purchased yet.

Allie Mo lives in my area, and has been wonderfully helpful by private email.
If I can introduce my wife to an enjoyable experience, rather than a kicking Missouri mule, we will both join SASS and participate.
Neither of us has any designs on being a Top 10 shooter.  Just want to enjoy the social life and have some fun.

 

Edited by bgavin
added more info
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4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Just a thought...

 

As my friend Badlands Bud has said: if I can't compete, I won't have fun. If I don't have fun, I won't compete.

 

Phantom

 

I fully agree with this, although i think compete takes different shape for folks. For me I compete against myself and my previous times. When i'm improving I'm having a great time, when i'm regressing, it sure isnt as much fun.

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bgavin, there are states east of you where the shooting sports are affordable, fairly hassle-free with competitions all year long.  I look forward to seeing you and your wife in costume and perhaps learning you purchased an RV to travel to matches.  Your choice of firearms is solid.  Many of us shoot what what you own.  Don't be surprised after a few years you start placing in the top ten and win your category at a major match.  Keep shooting and practicing and it will happen.  BTW, winning just increases the fun.  When your wife gets good enough to beat you that is special too.

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Yes, indeed.
I have over a hundred locations cataloged in a spread sheet by air quality, crime, temps, etc, etc.

We settled on Prescott, AZ.
Air quality is FAR better than Sacramento (#3 from the bottom)
Housing is 2x more expensive than in Sacramento.

Prescott has many pull over and plink locations, just a mile or two up the road.
I've not had that since I was a kid in Idaho.

We are leaving CA politics, impending tax disaster (repeal of Prop13 Commercial in 2020), impending new gun laws July 1, ever increasing crowds, bums, crime, and all the rest.

We did the RV thing in the past... decided we can stay in a whole lot of hotels for the same money, no insurance, don't have to change the oil or make the bed.

My wife is already good enough to beat me.  She uses a Louisville Slugger... ;)

I have no illusions about being a Top 10 shooter, unless all but Nine stay home.
You can't hand a guy a drill and a web site and make him into a dentist.
Practice makes perfect.  And many guys here have decades of it.

We wanted to do Waddie duty at EOT this year, but won't get down to Prescott by then.

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Neither of us has any designs on being a Top 10 shooter.  Just want to enjoy the social life and have some fun.

Well then, I'm your gal! LOL! My other specialty is shopping! ;)

 

IIRC, Hipshot (one of the SASS founders) always said we were the SAS&SS (Single Action Shooting and Shopping Society) ! :wub:;)

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10 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

IIRC, Hipshot (one of the SASS founders) always said we were the SAS&SS (Single Action Shooting and Shopping Society) ! :wub:;)


My wife and I are both members of the Order of the Eastern Star (Masons).
OES more often stands for "Order of Eating Sisters" due to our social life revolving around dinners.

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:29 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Don't get discouraged. The rules at first are a bit trying. 

 

Phantom

Sometimes I think government regulators wrote them. :D

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Yes, indeed.
I have over a hundred locations cataloged in a spread sheet by air quality, crime, temps, etc, etc.

We settled on Prescott, AZ.
Air quality is FAR better than Sacramento (#3 from the bottom)
Housing is 2x more expensive than in Sacramento.

Prescott has many pull over and plink locations, just a mile or two up the road.
I've not had that since I was a kid in Idaho.

We are leaving CA politics, impending tax disaster (repeal of Prop13 Commercial in 2020), impending new gun laws July 1, ever increasing crowds, bums, crime, and all the rest.

We did the RV thing in the past... decided we can stay in a whole lot of hotels for the same money, no insurance, don't have to change the oil or make the bed.

My wife is already good enough to beat me.  She uses a Louisville Slugger... ;)

I have no illusions about being a Top 10 shooter, unless all but Nine stay home.
You can't hand a guy a drill and a web site and make him into a dentist.
Practice makes perfect.  And many guys here have decades of it.

We wanted to do Waddie duty at EOT this year, but won't get down to Prescott by then.

Welcome to the fun. You will enjoy Prescott. Forty Rod moved there from CA a few years ago. He likes it a lot!

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Here is what I have created. Just interested in some feedback or suggestions for improvement. Would this be helpful to new/prospective participants?  

SASS Category Matrix.pdf

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11 hours ago, Shifty Bob said:

I picked up a stoger Coach Gun. Geeze took some work to get it open. Lots of polishing and I have it pritty slicked up now. I have several other hobbies and it's been taking me awhile to get the cowboy fun started. Thanks so much for all the great help on this forum.

I’ve been shooting the same Stoeger for 18 years now. Yup it was stiff in the beginning. Well broken-in now. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Welcome to the fun. You will enjoy Prescott. Forty Rod moved there from CA a few years ago. He likes it a lot!


Yep.
I'm in email contact with Forty Rod already.
I understand Indian Joe, and others also live in the area.

We have cash in-hand... just trying to find the "right" place.
There are some nice spreads in Williams and Chino Valley, but both are too far from our center of the universe (masonic lodge in prescott).

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Sometimes I think government regulators wrote them. :D


Or Microsoft...

 

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