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Marshal Hangtree

Smokeless vs. BP Subs

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Is it generally less expensive to shoot smokeless or BP subs?  I can buy smokeless locally over the counter, but have to order BP Subs and pay hazmat.

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Figure BP (or subs) reloaded will be 3X cost of smokeless cartridges.

 

And commercially loaded cartridges - maybe 4x commercial smokeless prices, although I don't think I have ever bought a BP cartridge, and you would be hard pressed to even FIND a BP-substitute loaded ammo supply..

 

Shotgun commercial - figure about 4X cost of smokeless.

 

You WILL want to reload if you go to BP/subs.

 

If cost is important, stick with smokeless and reload at least your metallic cartridges.

 

Good luck, GJ

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1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Is it generally less expensive to shoot smokeless or BP subs?  I can buy smokeless locally over the counter, but have to order BP Subs and pay hazmat.

Well if you had to order smokeless, you would have to pay Hazmat too... So I guess I don't understand what you are trying to say.

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Soot lords don't shoot in blackpowder categories because it is cheap, or easy.

 

To adopt a comment about the Iditarod, if it were easy everyone would do it!  ;)

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53 minutes ago, Trainwreck Paddy said:

He doesn't pay Hazmat locally over the counter. But needs to order BP

Well that's what I thought...just wasn't clear.

 

I mean...if they don't have the Smokeless that he wants, he'd have to pay hazmat...so...it's not unique to BP Subs.

 

That's why I didn't understand.

 

;)

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Smokeless is cheaper because you use so much less of it compared to BP subs.

OLG

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BP subs are usually found over the counter at most gun shops. Maybe not a lot but you'll usually find a can or two or three!

 

Just the fact that you have to use more of it makes smokeless a heckuva lot cheaper!

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Black MZ is like $10 per pound from Sportsmen's Warehouse.  Cheapest bp sub around, people who use it tell me it works great.  I've never used it.  I use APP if using subs.

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Here are the numbers I calculated a few years ago. Same bullet, Brass and Primer costs.

TrailBoss $13.88 for 120 rounds

APP $16.90 for 120 rounds

Black MZ $14.07 for 120 rounds

 

The costs above are for .38 Special

 

 

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Numbers above are not very representative.

 

I'll show you my .45 Colt powder costs per shot:

 

with 6 grains WST, WST at $24 a pound, a smokeless load of powder costs 2 cents

 

with 30 grains of Goex FFg, Goex at $20 a pound, a BP load costs 8.6 cents

 

The ratio: BP in the cartridge costs you 4.3 times as much smokeless powder in the cartridge.   Brass, primer, bullet - about the same for either, except usually a BP lubed slug will be a tad bit more pricey, plus fewer suppliers to buy from.

 

Good luck, GJ

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If you decide to shoot black powder it will cost a bit more. If you use the formula at $20 a pound but use Black MZ at $10.00 abound it will be about .04 cents a round. If you shoot the sub’s in your revolvers and rifle you may shoot smokeless lubed Bullets. I use real black so I do use big lube Bullets in my rifle. I shoot cap & ball revolvers with a lubed wad. I split a case of real black with a pard at $15.00 a pound including shipping and hazmat fees . Both powders are fun to shoot but I prefer black. I try not to let cost get in the way of which powder to shoot. If I figured match fees, fuel costs and wear & tear on my vehicle I would not have as much fun. Most shoots for me are 250 miles round trip and over four hours driving time. For the enjoyment I think well worth the cost. Just my take on playing our wonderful game of CAS.

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11 hours ago, Cemetery said:

Black MZ is like $10 per pound from Sportsmen's Warehouse.  Cheapest bp sub around, people who use it tell me it works great.  I've never used it.  I use APP if using subs.

Black MZ works fine in my cartridge guns by not in my C&B revolvers. Regular black and the other subs do just fine. I don’t know why but the cylinders bind up after two stages.

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That Black MZ is $30 a bottle anywhere but Sportsman's Warehouse from what I've seen and paid. Got some to try from Graf's when ordering BP just for the grins and being able to use it with smokeless lubed bullets. I prefer the real thing however. No place around here sells it for $10, but the real thing is easily available at LGS's here for about $20

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21 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Smokeless is cheaper because you use so much less of it compared to BP subs.

OLG

 

20 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

BP subs are usually found over the counter at most gun shops. Maybe not a lot but you'll usually find a can or two or three!

 

Just the fact that you have to use more of it makes smokeless a heckuva lot cheaper!

 

Ditto on what they said. Although I use real BP, I still use more BP than smokeless.  Volume wise, that is.

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19 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Here are the numbers I calculated a few years ago. Same bullet, Brass and Primer costs.

TrailBoss $13.88 for 120 rounds

APP $16.90 for 120 rounds

Black MZ $14.07 for 120 rounds

 

The costs above are for .38 Special

 

 

Doesn't TB come in a 9oz bottle when all other smokeless is 1lb?

1 lb(7000 gns)of Unique, loaded at 4.5 gn in a .38 Special will get you more than 1500+ rounds.

A lb of Unique runs about $22.00 +/-. That's about 1.5 cents per shell for powder.

OLG 

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3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Doesn't TB come in a 9oz bottle when all other smokeless is 1lb?

1 lb(7000 gns)of Unique, loaded at 4.5 gn in a .38 Special will get you more than 1500+ rounds.

A lb of Unique runs about $22.00 +/-. That's about 1.5 cents per shell for powder.

OLG 

 

I know that and the cost per match reflects that there is only 9 oz in a bottle of TrailBoss.

Those prices included the cost of bullets, primers, and prorated cost of brass.

 

BTW BP densities vary widely brand to brand. I have a bottle of real BP that would only fill an APP bottle 3/4 full and TrailBoss is not the only powder that is less than 16 ounces per bottle. 700X bottles only have 14 ounces. 

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