Book of the Garand by Julian Hatcher

[Chantry]

I've been reading Hatcher's Book of the Garand and found some interesting facts that I had not been aware of.

 

That the second Garand built, in .276 Pedersen, fired 1400 rounds in 40 minutes without a jam or damage and after putting the gun in a barrel of water, cooled, cleaned and oiled, proceeded to fire another 760 rounds in 15 minutes, again without a jam.

 

The book describes 2 separate attempts to blow up a Garand in 30-06.

 

In the first attempt Garand himself started with the standard 70,000 PSI proof load and increased each subsequent proof load by 5,000 PSI with the final load being 120,000 PSI at which point the gun suffered a crack to the hardened surface of the left bolt lug.  That gun was then fired with 5000 rounds of service ammunition with no further damage to the bolt lug or gun.

 

In the second attempt, they started with the standard proof load of 41.0 grains of the proof powder and then increased the charge in increments.  At 51.0 grains an Arisaka in 7.7 mm, which was being used for a test comparison,  had the receiver "blown to bits".  For those unfamiliar with the Arisaka 7.7mm, it has the reputation of being one of the strongest military bolt actions ever made.  The final load was 52.5 grains, which was all the cartridge case would hold.  The actual PSI of the 52.5 grain is unknown since the testers were afraid of damaging the pressure gun.

 

At the last shot "the head of the cartridge case melted out of the bottom and let the gas into the magazine, splintering the stock and blowing off the bottom of the magazine well.  Some of the gas also got into the ejector hole int he bolt and bulged the bottom of the bolt.  The gun opened only about a 1/16" on this shot."    "The receiver was entirely undamaged as were the locking lugs on the bolt and the headspace of the rifle had not changed appreciably and was still within maximum limits".   They replaced any broken parts, re-checked the headspace and functioning and the rifle was ready of use again.

 

 

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

I always liked reading Hatcher. It would have been fun to watch his experiments. I got a copy of Hatcher's Notebook many years ago that I still thumb through. Good information.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Happiness is a warm Garand. 

[Trailrider #896]

I have seen an M-1 blown up! However, it appears this was an out-of-battery discharge!  Not sure how that could happen, as the firing pin is cammed back by a partition inside the receiver.  Damage appeared (as little as the shooter would allow me to examine the piece) limited to a splintered stock, and the bottom of the magazine well blown out.  Shooter was unhurt!  The M-1 will take a lot of abuse and still come up shooting, however.  The main problem the rifle experiences is if too slow a powder is used, resulting in higher port pressures which can bend the operating rod.  Incidentally, the reason Hatcher lists for the reduction of the bullet weight from the original 172 gr. boattail to a 153.5 gr flat base, was NOT that the rifle wouldn't handle the heavier bullet, but that the "danger space" of the 172 gr. bullet was generally longer range than most of the stateside ranges could handle!  IIRC, later National Match ammo did have a 172 gr bullet.  Smokeless powders suitable for the M-1 range from IMR3031 to IMR4064, with 48.5 gr IMR4895 behind a 152.5 gr lead core bullet being the standard M2 Ball load.  The M2AP, with the mild steel core being slightly heavier.  Although much too young to have been issued one in the military, I cut my teeth on a Lend-Lease return M-1.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Love those thangs.  

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

7 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

I have seen an M-1 blown up! However, it appears this was an out-of-battery discharge!  Not sure how that could happen, as the firing pin is cammed back by a partition inside the receiver.  Damage appeared (as little as the shooter would allow me to examine the piece) limited to a splintered stock, and the bottom of the magazine well blown out.  Shooter was unhurt!  The M-1 will take a lot of abuse and still come up shooting, however.  The main problem the rifle experiences is if too slow a powder is used, resulting in higher port pressures which can bend the operating rod.  Incidentally, the reason Hatcher lists for the reduction of the bullet weight from the original 172 gr. boattail to a 153.5 gr flat base, was NOT that the rifle wouldn't handle the heavier bullet, but that the "danger space" of the 172 gr. bullet was generally longer range than most of the stateside ranges could handle!  IIRC, later National Match ammo did have a 172 gr bullet.  Smokeless powders suitable for the M-1 range from IMR3031 to IMR4064, with 48.5 gr IMR4895 behind a 152.5 gr lead core bullet being the standard M2 Ball load.  The M2AP, with the mild steel core being slightly heavier.  Although much too young to have been issued one in the military, I cut my teeth on a Lend-Lease return M-1.

Mentioning actual loads is generally forbidden around here because it makes SASS potentially liable if you err and someone takes your advice.  

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

Love those thangs.  

Dang, that's purty.

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Mentioning actual loads is generally forbidden around here because it makes SASS potentially liable if you err and someone takes your advice.  

Not any more, apparently. Load data is now permitted. With my luck it’s allowed until I post something. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

10 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

I have seen an M-1 blown up! However, it appears this was an out-of-battery discharge!  Not sure how that could happen, as the firing pin is cammed back by a partition inside the receiver.  Damage appeared (as little as the shooter would allow me to examine the piece) limited to a splintered stock, and the bottom of the magazine well blown out.  Shooter was unhurt!  The M-1 will take a lot of abuse and still come up shooting, however.  The main problem the rifle experiences is if too slow a powder is used, resulting in higher port pressures which can bend the operating rod.  Incidentally, the reason Hatcher lists for the reduction of the bullet weight from the original 172 gr. boattail to a 153.5 gr flat base, was NOT that the rifle wouldn't handle the heavier bullet, but that the "danger space" of the 172 gr. bullet was generally longer range than most of the stateside ranges could handle!  IIRC, later National Match ammo did have a 172 gr bullet.  Smokeless powders suitable for the M-1 range from IMR3031 to IMR4064, with 48.5 gr IMR4895 behind a 152.5 gr lead core bullet being the standard M2 Ball load.  The M2AP, with the mild steel core being slightly heavier.  Although much too young to have been issued one in the military, I cut my teeth on a Lend-Lease return M-1.

Yup. A lot of people think the change to the M2 ball ammo was because the M1 was to powerful. Not so. The Garand was built to handle it. I load my ammo close to M2 specs. I don’t need to reach out very far.

[Ramblin Gambler]

Then why am I supposed to use special ammo in my garand? 

[Alpo]

The receiver can take the pressure.

 

The op-rod, however, doesn't like excess speed(?). If it is operated too violently, by ammo using too fast a powder, it can bend.

 

At least, that's what I've always understood.

 

I believe the M14 (or the M1A), which also has a long flat op-rod, can also be bent by too fast of a powder.

[Trailrider #896]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

The receiver can take the pressure.

 

The op-rod, however, doesn't like excess speed(?). If it is operated too violently, by ammo using too fast a powder, it can bend.

 

At least, that's what I've always understood.

 

I believe the M14 (or the M1A), which also has a long flat op-rod, can also be bent by too fast of a powder.

Not so much on the M14 or M1A.  They use the White gas valve system which meters the gas bleed from the burning powder.  The gas valve is located closer to the breech of the rifle, so the port pressures are higher anyway.  IIRC (and I can't recall where you can buy them) there are some replacement plugs for the M1's gas assembly, which will meter gas pressure.  It's not the same as the White system, but has the same effect. 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

18 hours ago, Alpo said:

Dang, that's purty.

Deadly also.  But a love to shoot. 

[Alpo]

Them stripes natural or burned in?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Just now, Alpo said:

Them stripes natural or burned in?

Natural. I had a fellow go over the rifle when I received it from CMP. He refinished and reparkerized the metal. The stock had a nasty

gash in it, from an apparently Danish bar fight, so I had him restock it. He sent me a letter telling me that he had a Claro Walnut stock. 

This is what I got back. 

 

I received a notice from his daughter that he had passed away, and she was continuing his work, but apparently she folded up, because 

his web page has been taken down. 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

4 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Not so much on the M14 or M1A.  They use the White gas valve system which meters the gas bleed from the burning powder.  The gas valve is located closer to the breech of the rifle, so the port pressures are higher anyway.  IIRC (and I can't recall where you can buy them) there are some replacement plugs for the M1's gas assembly, which will meter gas pressure.  It's not the same as the White system, but has the same effect. 

I believe Fulton Armory has those.

Yup found it.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/gascylinderplugsystemadjustable.aspx

 

[Trailrider #896]

Obliged, Bob! 

[Dawg Hair, SASS #29557]

On 12/11/2018 at 5:51 PM, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

Love those thangs.  

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT STOCK?  GAWD, THAT"S PURDY! 

[Utah Bob #35998]

I’m currently refinishing the stocks on our VFW Garands. Got four finished so far and two ‘03s for the color guard. There are a few dings here and there on some. 70 years of service leaves marks. But I’m getting most of the bad spots out and putting 5 costs of boiled linseed oil on them and a few coats of stock wax. There’s nothing like American Walnut and forged steel.

My personal M1 retains it’s earned scars.

[grenadier]

I don’t mess with the wood on mine either. The bucks, bruises and notches all tell a story. I recently pulled a Type 38 Arisaka out of a corner in Pa and it looks like a road map. All correct but this old warhorse looks like it went from Manchuria to Philippines. Some GI, Marine or Sailor saw fit to leave it alone so I will too.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

4 hours ago, grenadier said:

I don’t mess with the wood on mine either. The bucks, bruises and notches all tell a story. I recently pulled a Type 38 Arisaka out of a corner in Pa and it looks like a road map. All correct but this old warhorse looks like it went from Manchuria to Philippines. Some GI, Marine or Sailor saw fit to leave it alone so I will too.

 

Reminded me of an episode of Pawn Stars. Guy brought a Gen 1 Colt, made around 1880 and functioning, into the pawn shop. He thought it looked a little rough so he took a wire wheel to it. Without his "help" the pistol was worth thousands. I think they offered him $300. He decided to keep it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

5 hours ago, grenadier said:

I don’t mess with the wood on mine either. The bucks, bruises and notches all tell a story. I recently pulled a Type 38 Arisaka out of a corner in Pa and it looks like a road map. All correct but this old warhorse looks like it went from Manchuria to Philippines. Some GI, Marine or Sailor saw fit to leave it alone so I will too.

If I pick up a second Garand, I’ll refinish one of them to have a “before and after pair.