Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Attica Jack #23953 said: Shooting Bull, asked why I thought moving with a cocked gun is dangerous. OK, just a simple example. You have a person shooting the stage, that has some limited movement abilities. This person shoots one revolver, cocks the other one and moves to the next pistol station, while moving he/she slips on some thing, water, ice, empty shells, etc. When the slip happens, the shooting hand hits the ground or board walk, it breaks the 170 rule and the shooters finger is in on the trigger and the pistol goes off.....accidental discharge aimed at everyone behind the line. I just don't think it is safe PERIOD. If you shoot Wild Bunch, you will see plenty of unsafe gun handling, moving with slide forward, moving with trigger finger on trigger etc. All of these will earn a penalty. I know a 1911 is a different gun, and lot of things going on when shooting. Lets keep our sport as safe as it can be. Also, I talked to several shooters that have been shooting as long as I have, and not one can ever remember when it was ok to move with a cocked hand gun. This is the last I will say on the subject as I don't believe the SASS safety police will ever allow shooting on the move or moving with a cocked gun, even though other action shooting sports employ it successfully. You and I will have to simply agree to disagree. While I can appreciate that you are passionate about your thoughts and opinion, the example you cite is taking into account the "What if?" assumption the shooter is going to fall and roll in a manner that turns the gun 180 degrees towards the crowd. Having seen a small handful of shooters trip and fall over the years, the opposite is true. As the shooter goes down, they will normally put both hands out open to arrest their fall. The gun will come out of their hand(s) and finger comes out of the trigger guard rendering the gun safe. There are those folks of course that maintain muzzle control and are able to continue the fight. As an external hammer shotgun user, I move legally with a cocked gun all the time, some of those times with the chambers loaded, action open. Not once have I pulled the trigger without intending to. Using your theory though, I am unsafe as I could fall down in such a manner that the shotgun turns, the barrels close in the process, and discharge into the crowd. You stated you've seen people shot intentionally and/or by accident. Can you cite an real life example that relates to SASS? All the examples I can recall are related to the drawing and holstering the revolvers, to include 22+ years in SASS as well as 24 years as a LEO Trainer/Rangemaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Hi Folks, About falling, I'm an expert. The two times I fell on ice, I cracked my tail bone. It seems I tend to land on my butt. I've fallen three times on wet grass; all three times I landed on my butt. Twice was at a match. Once was on my way to the ULT with two long guns in hand; the other time was mid-stage with open empty shotgun in hand. Neither time did I break the 170. The time I fell away from a match, I landed somewhat on my side and did break my arm. This may only be considered anecdotal evidence. It sure beats no evidence at all. I won't mention the other time I remember falling, in the evening after guns were put away, as alcohol was involved. Lumpy, keep quiet please. Hey Jasper, that was fun. The shooting box concept was common in 1999, when I started, and the early 2000s. No one was ever hurt. I've also shot a similar stage (RR car) at the CA State at 5 Dogs. There were many SDQs. I think people were looking for them and some may have been false calls. One lady got one and had proof she did not move with a cocked gun. That wasn't allowed at this match. Her husband videoed her. We all know videos are not allowed as evidence. I haven't seen her since that match. I suspect she quit SASS over the episode. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie T Waite Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 30 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: Hi Folks, About falling, I'm an expert. The two times I fell on ice, I cracked my tail bone. It seems I tend to land on my butt. And you bounce so well ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: I won't mention the other time I remember falling, in the evening after guns were put away, as alcohol was involved. Lumpy, keep quiet please. Allie OK-'Crash', I won't say a word. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: I won't mention the other time I remember falling, in the evening after guns were put away, as alcohol was involved. Lumpy, keep quiet please. Let me guess - that was your Shooting Bull imitation ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I worked the DPD for 25 years....................saw lots people shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Attica Jack #23953 said: I worked the DPD for 25 years....................saw lots people shot. As did I, when I was with the PD. You are comparing Apples to Onions here.......... That has nut'n to do with safe movement on the range with a loaded and ready to fire weapon. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I’d like to point out a simple fact that seems to be getting overlooked. Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean shooters are required to do it. It’s been stated multiple times that we shouldn’t allow shooting on the move because we have very old, very young, very inexperienced, etc. shooters. Yeah? So what? Nobody’s telling these shooters they HAVE to do something. As with absolutely everything in this sport, you shoot to your ability. If you can do it, great. If you can’t, also great. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: I’d like to point out a simple fact that seems to be getting overlooked. Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean shooters are required to do it. It’s been stated multiple times that we shouldn’t allow shooting on the move because we have very old, very young, very inexperienced, etc. shooters. Yeah? So what? Nobody’s telling these shooters they HAVE to do something. As with absolutely everything in this sport, you shoot to your ability. If you can do it, great. If you can’t, also great. Have fun. Yup-It's permission to do so-NOT a command. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Yusta B. said: Let me guess - that was your Shooting Bull imitation ! LOL! No. I think he imitated me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Attica Jack #23953 said: I worked the DPD for 25 years....................saw lots people shot. Did these shooting happen at the range during controlled exercises? Whole different deal pard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Before the rule change "to no moving with a cocked loaded firearm, including revolvers, rifles, and shotguns" stage writers could have stages where moving with a cocked firearm was ok per the stage instructions. We shot many stages like this up in the Northwest when I lived there. We did not have any problems. Shooters who were confident in moving did it, those who were not did not do it. SASS changed the rule and a lot of fun stages could no longer be written. Every other action handgun shooting sport allows moving with a cocked firearm and I am not hearing of problems. I guess SASS doesn't believe we are safe shooters like the other sports do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Dan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 "Keep yer booger picker off the bang switch" is the way I recall it. Having trained, and trained with some of the best shooters in the world, there is a progression to advanced shooting skills. Level 1 stationary shooting, Level 2 moving with loaded guns and stopping to shoot, Level 3 shooting on the move. I think SASS is very much level 2 and given the unknown level of training of the shooter, the only thing you can rely on is at least they will follow the rules reducing the chance of accidents. I would love to have stages where "engage between point A and point B" was an option. I think limiting shooters to stationary firing and movement with "loaded" guns is about as good as it gets without some type of qualification being required. As it is now, I have shot several scenarios where engagement between 2 points is stated, however you have to stop to fire, then continue moving. I have to remind myself to do this correctly as my "muscle memory" wants me to keep moving. CAS is so much fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Anyone remember when shooting gunfighter used to be too dangerous for the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Anyone remember when shooting gunfighter used to be too dangerous for the game? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Anyone remember when shooting gunfighter used to be too dangerous for the game? You mean back when 2 handed shooters were in 'Traditional' category. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said: Anyone remember when shooting gunfighter used to be too dangerous for the game? Still is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Stay safe and Happy Holidays to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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