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12 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Just shaking my head...

 

Admittedly, I am not a big semi auto pistol guy......

 

And I am not military.....

 

But my nose started itching almost as soon as I started reading this article.

 

Only $590 Million...and it will revolutionize close quarters combat because .....you can use it in either hand.

 

Get you some of that!

 

LL

 

 

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I stopped reading after the third paragraph. That article is so full of bovine excrement I could smell it from here. The M17 is an okay gun, but far from the best polymer pistol out there and only scarcely better as a fighting tool than the M9 is. In fact, given the choice of either I'd pick the M9 because at least it's proven. According to Small Arms Solutions there wasn't even a final head-to-head test between the SIG and the Glock entry so it wasn't even thoroughly tested. The Army simply went with the package that was the cheapest.

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When I read history and I find that the troops were having difficulty cycling the slide of John Moses Browning's invention (1911) I have to believe there are a number of troops who cannot handle a 45 ACP. 'Course number of rounds may enter into it.

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It has to fit this new generation. The old generation of fighting is out. They have to find something new then eventually will realize it does not work and someone will come up with a new idea such as, I thought up this new gun that is in .45 cal that is a semi-auto. It can have a grip which fires 8 rounds for the girls, and a wider grip firing 14 rounds for the men. It's a neat design which looks exactly like this old fellow named John Browning made and called it the 1911. It really works no matter what treatment you do to it. Heck of a gun 

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For optimum performance, pistol is to be kept well lubricated with Acme Snake Oil.

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There are a lot of modern 9mm handguns that would be great as the new service pistol. The Glock, obviously. Also the S&W M&P 2.0 Series. In fact even the new Beretta M9A3 is a great gun and had most of the features the Army wanted, while keeping the same weapons platform they already have which would simplify things. But nope, the Army wanted a shiny new plastic gun and they ended up picking one of the worst. The only way the could've screwed the pooch even more is if they'd adopted one of the new Remington pistols instead.

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My interest in the article was not the gun but the ammo.  The Army will feed it 147 grain hollow points.  After reading up on the legality of this I found that hollow point bullets can be used against terrorists and insurgents.

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Screw the Hague Accords. Anyone who would deliberately pile-drive an airliner with hundreds of screaming people on board into a building deserves a hollow-point bullet to the head. Preferably with pig fat packed into the cavity.

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3 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

There are a lot of modern 9mm handguns that would be great as the new service pistol. The Glock, obviously. Also the S&W M&P 2.0 Series. In fact even the new Beretta M9A3 is a great gun and had most of the features the Army wanted, while keeping the same weapons platform they already have which would simplify things. But nope, the Army wanted a shiny new plastic gun and they ended up picking one of the worst. The only way the could've screwed the pooch even more is if they'd adopted one of the new Remington pistols instead.

 

I haven't shot this pistol, but I have shot (and owned) some other Sigs.  I like 'em.  I'm impressed by their build quality and triggers.

 

I'm curious; what makes them in your view, "one of the worst"?

 

LL

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Like Sixgun I got to paragraph 3. “Can’t shoot the M9 one handed”? What the $&@# kind of morons do they have in charge of the Army anyway? 

Somehow I get the feeling someone or a group of someone’s have a nice nest egg waiting for them when they retire...

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18 hours ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

My interest in the article was not the gun but the ammo.  The Army will feed it 147 grain hollow points.  After reading up on the legality of this I found that hollow point bullets can be used against terrorists and insurgents.

 

learned something today

 

I, too wondered about that comment--thanks for clearing it up

 

 

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"The U.S. ratified the first three articles of the 1899 Hague Convention but never signed Article IV. Additionally, Article IV, Section 3 states that the prohibition on the use of hollow points applies only in a conflict between two signatories. Even if the U.S.A. signed Article IV, the provisions wouldn’t apply to the United States unless fighting another signatory state."

 

Article IV: Declaration concerning the Prohibition of the Use of Bullets which can Easily Expand or Change their Form inside the Human Body such as Bullets with a Hard Covering which does not Completely Cover the Core, or containing Indentations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

 

FUN HISTORY FACT: The Imperial German Army in WW1 knew a few things about effective weapons.  They had deployed flame throwers, poison gas, machine guns and high explosives.  In 1918, the German’s ran into Americans carrying the Model 97 Trench Guns (a 12 gauge pump shotgun) shooting 00 buckshot.  They filed a diplomatic complaint that the shotgun was cruel and illegal citing the 1907 Hague Convention. When the Americans laughed at this, the German Army threatened to execute soldiers caught with shotguns.  Challenge accepted!  American General Pershing replied that Germans caught with flamethrowers or saw-bladed bayonets would be shot.

 

https://loadoutroom.com/44886/u-s-army-adopts-hollow-point-ammo-m-17-m-18/

 

 

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On 11/21/2018 at 1:23 PM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

For optimum performance, pistol is to be kept well lubricated with Acme Snake Oil.

Hardpan, thank you!

I needed a really good laugh and this was it!

Well said!

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On 11/21/2018 at 2:05 PM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

I haven't shot this pistol, but I have shot (and owned) some other Sigs.  I like 'em.  I'm impressed by their build quality and triggers.

 

I'm curious; what makes them in your view, "one of the worst"?

 

The P320 series have been dogged by a variety of issues such as light primer strikes and of course the infamous drop-fire problem. Also the grip is way too slippery IMHO. Not saying these issues can't be fixed or haven't been, but why go with a pistol that still needs debugging when there were other choices that were already proven???

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