marvintm Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Hello. First post. First time lever gun owner (=happy). Let me start by saying when I was considering buying an 1873, I didn't find much for photos to compare the Miroku's internals to the other guys, specifically fitment and quality of build to see for myself. So here are a few Miroku pics, with some things I noted and minor tweaks I did on my newly acquired Miroku. I am not planning on competitive shooting, so the numerous aftermarket parts available for a full race Italian gun was of no importance to me personally. To each his own. Finally, I hope this qualifies as a useful contribution to the whole. What a great forum/community you have here! The Action links, hammer fit, lever full throw angle, and another link pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvintm Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 and more.... Lever spring mods. Ect. I must say the fitment and build seems very nice out of the box. The lever throw is 90 degrees from horizontal. I hear this is better than the stock italy guns, but not a short stroke either. My only complaint was the excessively heavy safety actuation, requiring a very deliberate squeeze during firing. As shown in the photos, and with a slight back bending of the safety pawl spring to lighten it, that was resolved nicely. It's like a swiss watch now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Art Tillery Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Very well done pard... You spent some time producing those pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvintm Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 and finally, with tang installed + rear blank for my bifocal eyes that cant focus on buckhorns. Ohh, and its a 357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Nice first posts! Good pics and good info. Well done. And welcome to the camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Eye Jim Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Thank you very much. I too have this rifle, now as my main match gun. All I've done to it up to this point was strip it and put it back together (after my first shoot with it, actually) to make sure I could. If you don't mind, I'm going to save these pics to my OneDrive for easy access for when I get home tonight. I still need to clean the rifle anyway, so now is good time as any to break it down and see if I can clean up some of that safety play... Left the loading table in 1/4 cock on the first stage last Saturday and didn't notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Great work and photos. One thing I would recommend is either lightening and polishing the springs on both sides of the lever or replacing them. The stronger spring pressure will gradually wear the surfaces and eventually require replacing or building up the lever, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvintm Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Yep, Marauder, I forgot to post this pic of that very same thing. Yes I did round over both springs sharp contact edges with a ceramic hone. (But very slight). I thought is was odd not to have a rounded contact tip on these like the whisper springs do. I will keep an eye on that wear point, thank you. You can also see the relief cut on the outer half to allow it to lay fully down in the lever home position. Doesn't take much. The 45° flat shown was filed on the LEFT spring ONLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvintm Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Oh, and anyone owning a Miroku, check the tiny tang sight mount filler screws ! Mine were sloppy loose from the factory just flopping around in there waiting to work their way out, including going down INTO the frame and dropping into the trigger action. (the holes go clean through) I suggest a bit of blue locktite on them before you eventually loose them. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I enjoy my Miroku Winchester. The two points of frustration are that it isn't made in the USA and that NCOWS will not allow it in their sanctioned events because of the shorter than original stroke. I even asked if it would be legal if I found a "long stroke" kit and the answer was, most likely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pill Roller, SASS #77160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Thanks for the post. I just got one and thought the lever springs were wrong looked like to left side springs installed. Your pics cleared that up for me. Don't know if I can do any of the mods suggest as I can be a bit ham handed! I may bend the safety pawl spring a bit to lighten the lever safety tension. Mine seems a bit "rough" on first run of the lever but otherwise runs fine and shoots good Marauder ,any suggestions on replacement springs, these guns seem a bit picky on aftermarket parts. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I'm not sure if the Springs for the Uberti would work or not. I would contact some of the gunsmith/dealers as they would probably have some experience. But you can always have your springs tuned by reducing their size. I have done it manually with the good old "rotary tool" You need to hold the spring in your hand or at least touch it to make sure it does not over heat as you take off the metal. Looking at the spring from the side, you can easily reduce the "height" of the metal to reduce the pressure. In some cases you may also need to narrow it as well. Take it a step at a time. You can also slightly improve it by using an old "cowboy" method of placing a washer between the spring and the frame. This will slightly change the geometry to reduce the spring pressure. This was done even in the actually cowboy period, but is not ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pill Roller, SASS #77160 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Marauder, thanks for the input. Have to see what I can do. I tried to install some whisper springs but didn't seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Mays Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I have a friend who recently got a used 73 Miroku and, to my surprise, the action is smoother than my 73 Codymatic. Must have been slicked up by the prior owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Ozzy Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Had put the leather washer under the spring and smoothed the lever springs when I first got mine. Stripped with brake cleaner and Ballistoled for BP. Going to check that safety spring and plunger next. Thanks for the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlefork Bob, SASS #53945 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I have one of these rifles coming this is a very useful post thanks! I do not plan on doing a short stroke but I will thin and lighten the lever springs. Do you recommend lightening the main hammer spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvintm Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 How about some non-destructive testing on the springs before modifying them? I understand replacement parts are not that easily obtained. Either washer/shims as Marauder suggests, or just temporarily loosen the screws to adjust tension and see what you like. You will learn quickly how each one affects the operation before you commit to permanent grinding. I don't know if leaving the screws loose with locktite applied will suffer damage as the threads will be getting the brunt of the spring torque, instead of the spring being mounted down tight to the frame. (?) Trooper Ozzy: My Safety Spring: There is a 20° kick bend on the pawl spring as it heads from the frame mounting pin toward the pawl. You can see it in the photo just above the right hand sear torsion knee. If you do back-bend the left hand side of this wire to unload the pawl a bit, I found that this kick bend now sat up a bit higher, which then was being bumped by the underside of the hammer heel when it was cocked, making the safety stiff again at the very last part of its throw. I removed the spring assembly, (not fun) then straightened this knee bend just a tad for clearance. Re-assembled, (even less fun) Now the pawl was too loose. So I added tension by re-bending not the kick, but farther back where the wire touches the mounting pin in order to restore tension to taste. Now its nice and light but dependably sprung. It's similar to the feel of modded Uberti safeties that I have handled. These were very small tweaks - you cant tell by looking at the wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlefork Bob, SASS #53945 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Picked it up yesterday and WOW! What a nice rifle. I have already lightened the safety spring and polished the lever springs. Low and behold they have a main spring tension screw!! I lightened it up and man does this rifle cycle smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi littleton Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Great thread, thank you. I have one of the carbines that I really like. But when you are closing the lever prior to hitting the safety the lever seems to cam into lock up compared to an original or Uberti. I did pull out both action springs and rounded/polished the leading edge which seemed to help a great deal. That alone seemed to cut the camming pressure on closing in half maybe. But even with springs removed the pressure of the locking lugs going into to full lock up gives me that same bump on closing just short of engaging the safety. I then made the cut on the left hand spring you have suggested to clear the frame. Not much difference that I can feel from doing that. Any suggestions would be welcomed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Obviously none of yall like these guns so why dont you send them to Imis' Home for Unwanted 73s. i will care for them well. Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ The Red Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 This is an excellent series of posts. I have purchased and am now using one of these rifles. My experience with the safety suppressed by the lever costs me 3 or 4 seconds every Stage, simply because I have never used a safety/lever/trigger combination like this. I would like to implement the suggested fix but I am no gunsmith. Some of those Gunsmiths who work on the Uberti's will not work on the Winchesters because of the poor supply chain Winchester has in place for these guns. SO - MY BIG QUESTION - CAN I DO THIS MYSELF IF MY SKILL SET IS AT THE JACK OF ALL TRADES LEVEL? I have the small files, diamond sharping tools, magnifying lenses, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi littleton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, HRandRHBoyd said: CAN I DO THIS MYSELF IF MY SKILL SET IS AT THE JACK OF ALL TRADES LEVEL? I have the small files, diamond sharping tools, magnifying lenses, etc. My impression is yes, easily. I've built '73s with every race bell and whistle. Done others only partially to better mimic an old Winchester's action. Call that a skill set of 7 out of 10 needed. The required mods on the Winchester IMO to get a decent gun with a good action are a 1 at best. Biggest action improvement I got was from simply rounding the spring ends at the lever. You can do that with anything from just emery paper by hand to a buffer on a bench grinder (not recommended). I used the aggressive buffer on my bench grinder and it tool less than 30 seconds per spring. By hand may be 5 minutes with emery paper. It really doesn't take much polishing. In retrospect I should have done mine by hand with emery paper. You can skip the file cut all together and loose little on performance IMO. Using a file there could wreck a part if the work was done poorly. If you are in doubt I'd just skip it. Hardest part of the job here is pulling the side plates and making sure the toggle links go back in right snd retightening the side plates. That just takes some patience and not getting in a hurry. The photo shows the springs that could use a careful polish on the tips where they contact the lever cam. A light polish there made huge difference on my rifle. The safety spring? All that takes is pulling the stock off. You'll see the spring that controls the safety. Just bending that spring down some at the "dog leg" (which is very obvious) will take some pressure off the safety and make life a lot easier shooting the rifle quickly. Start with a little, test and make adjustments as you go. A little will go a long ways to lightening the trigger safety. Look at this photo as a guide for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ The Red Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 14 hours ago, levi littleton said: My impression is yes, easily. I've built '73s with every race bell and whistle. Done others only partially to better mimic an old Winchester's action. Call that a skill set of 7 out of 10 needed. The required mods on the Winchester IMO to get a decent gun with a good action are a 1 at best. Biggest action improvement I got was from simply rounding the spring ends at the lever. You can do that with anything from just emery paper by hand to a buffer on a bench grinder (not recommended). I used the aggressive buffer on my bench grinder and it tool less than 30 seconds per spring. By hand may be 5 minutes with emery paper. It really doesn't take much polishing. In retrospect I should have done mine by hand with emery paper. You can skip the file cut all together and loose little on performance IMO. Using a file there could wreck a part if the work was done poorly. If you are in doubt I'd just skip it. Hardest part of the job here is pulling the side plates and making sure the toggle links go back in right snd retightening the side plates. That just takes some patience and not getting in a hurry. The photo shows the springs that could use a careful polish on the tips where they contact the lever cam. A light polish there made huge difference on my rifle. The safety spring? All that takes is pulling the stock off. You'll see the spring that controls the safety. Just bending that spring down some at the "dog leg" (which is very obvious) will take some pressure off the safety and make life a lot easier shooting the rifle quickly. Start with a little, test and make adjustments as you go. A little will go a long ways to lightening the trigger safety. Look at this photo as a guide for that... When I asked for help. I was not sure what would result. I am overwhelmed at the level of assistance that you have provided. I am going to take careful steps to read through the Posts, take pictures for each step of the way and follow your guide. This is World Class help and greatly appreciated. Having people who obvisously love the beauty of a firearm and the openness of a friend makes this a wonderful adventure. I have the correct tools and will enjoy learning more about my rifle. I will still be nervous at first until I see each component and understand its role in this minor but important change. THANK YOU LEVI LITTLETON AND ALL THE OTHERS. RUSS THE RED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ The Red Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I hope me previous response made it through the posts. I just want to be sure everyone in this Post Chain knows how much I appreciate all of the information. I know it wouldn't have happened without Marvintm starting this, Thank You. The confirmation and comments from the rest of you helped to assure me this was going to work out okay. When Levi Littleton supplied the assurance, I knew this is something I could tackle. Thanks to All. I will let you know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi littleton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 You're welcome Just the cowboy way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Great Post ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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