G W Wade Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Pardner of mine just picked up a back up Vaquero. After firing it, he called to tell me something was wrong. Binding and locking up. After answering all his questions, recommended send it back. Now he called to tell me you can not slip hammer the most recent vaquero. Not that important. But inquiring minds want to know. What did they do THANKS GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Odd. I just recently saw folks slip hammering New Vaqueros. Was base pin all the way? Is transfer bar broken? High primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I have a friend that has two NRV and both of them have similar cycling problems. Hummm? Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I don't slip hammer but I have a relatively new stainless steel Ruger Vaquero that was binding up on cocking. It had little to no cylinder gap. I basically polished the rough mill marks off the barrel forcing cone face until a .003 gauge would slide through. I've only shot about 40 rounds through it but it has not bound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 It is not just the new production ones. I have seen some earlier NMVs that could not be slip hammered either. I talked to Ruger about it and was told that this is not a design feature. I think something was not fitted correctly and causing the trigger to interfere with the hammer fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Wade Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Thanks Guys. Wont be name dropper because I was not told directly, but he got his info from cowboy gunsmith. who sold him the gun GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 It is not just the new production ones. I have seen some earlier NMVs that could not be slip hammered either. I talked to Ruger about it and was told that this is not a design feature. I think something was not fitted correctly and causing the trigger to interfere with the hammer fall. It's not the trigger. The bottom of the cyl 'paw' is hitting the trigger guard frame, and causing a slight bind. This can slightly interfere with the 'stroke' of the paw by not letting it fully cycle and re-engage the cyl notches, until you release the trigger. I first saw this when I installed SBH hammers on my wife's NMV's. Remove the trigger frame, look for a witness mark to the left of the trigger slot. I just took about .030" off the bottom of the 'paw'. The OMV's never had this issue, that I ever saw. YMMV, OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 It's not the trigger. The bottom of the cyl 'paw' is hitting the trigger guard frame, and causing a slight bind. This can slightly interfere with the 'stroke' of the paw by not letting it fully cycle and re-engage the cyl notches, until you release the trigger. I first saw this when I installed SBH hammers on my wife's NMV's. Remove the trigger frame, look for a witness mark to the left of the trigger slot. I just took about .030" off the bottom of the 'paw'. The OMV's never had this issue, that I ever saw. YMMV, OLG I believe that this is a different issue as I could clearly feel the trigger being pushed forward under my finger. Never had a chance to open them up and see why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I believe that this is a different issue as I could clearly feel the trigger being pushed forward under my finger. Never had a chance to open them up and see why. The paw is attached to the hammer. If the paw doesn't fully retract. It doesn't reset into the next set of cyl notches. The paw making contact with the grip frame creates a bind of sorts. It took me awhile to find this issue, as it was a real head scratcher. Something to consider..... Stay well, Mike. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Howdy; Got two Ruger flattop Blackhawk 50th anniversary's. So one will slip hammer and the other will push the trigger forward if slip hammering is tried. Also the cylinder is supposed to line up with the ejection notch with 6 clicks of the cylinder BUT the second revolver has 12 clicks when the cylinder is rotated, there is a soft click between each cylinder hole. I believe that the second revolver may well have the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Guessing with the smaller frame it is a clearance issue that was never a issue with older oringal Rugers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 It's not the trigger. The bottom of the cyl 'paw' is hitting the trigger guard frame, and causing a slight bind. This can slightly interfere with the 'stroke' of the paw by not letting it fully cycle and re-engage the cyl notches, until you release the trigger. I first saw this when I installed SBH hammers on my wife's NMV's. Remove the trigger frame, look for a witness mark to the left of the trigger slot. I just took about .030" off the bottom of the 'paw'. The OMV's never had this issue, that I ever saw. YMMV, OLG This is correct. 50th Anniv Blackhawks and early NMV's had this problem. Ruger instituted a relief cut to the trigger guard frame to solve the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 This is correct. 50th Anniv Blackhawks and early NMV's had this problem. Ruger instituted a relief cut to the trigger guard frame to solve the issue. Any pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=218866&start=15 Take a look at this... Not pictures of factory done mod but it's exactly what I speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 This is correct. 50th Anniv Blackhawks and early NMV's had this problem. Ruger instituted a relief cut to the trigger guard frame to solve the issue. Both of my wife's NMV's(bought a little over 6 years ago)had a 'notch' in the TG frame done buy Ruger when the guns were built. Ruger knows about this interference/contact issue. The relief cut notch wasn't deep or wide enough, and the contact marks from the paw proved this. In a vert. mill, I deepened the notch .025 using a full radius 3/16" dia endmill. I also removed about .025-.030 from the bottom of the cyl paw. Now, both NMV's can be 'slip-hammered' with ease. IMO-The major cause of this. Is the casting 'spur' left at the bottom of the paw. If Ruger would dress and finish the spur flush with the radius of the part. There would be no interference issue at all. Like I said-This all came to be known when doing a SBH hammer install on these guns. I was checking clearances and such. Respectfully, OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=218866&start=15 Take a look at this... Not pictures of factory done mod but it's exactly what I speak of. That is not the part of the paw I'm referring to. I'm 'talking' about the bottom of the paw, down near the pivot/mounting point in the hammer. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Both of my wife's NMV's(bought a little over 6 years ago)had a 'notch' in the TG frame done buy Ruger when the guns were built. Ruger knows about this interference/contact issue. The relief cut notch wasn't deep or wide enough, and the contact marks from the paw proved this. In a vert. mill, I deepened the notch .025 using a full radius 3/16" dia endmill. I also removed about .025-.030 from the bottom of the cyl paw. Now, both NMV's can be 'slip-hammered' with ease. IMO-The major cause of this. Is the casting 'spur' left at the bottom of the paw. If Ruger would dress and finish the spur flush with the radius of the part. There would be no interference issue at all. Like I said-This all came to be known when doing a SBH hammer install on these guns. I was checking clearances and such. Respectfully, OLG The bump on the pawl and the frame are supposed to come in contact with each other. This is what allows the revers index "pawl" on the new models to do its job. It is a bad way to make a free spin pawl but it is the way Ruger chose to do it. The notch in the frame is how the factory adjusts the pawl disengagement. Adjusting it there is faster than repeated removal of the pawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Mike-Too bad Ruger is not put'n the notches in deep enough, is the real deal. Both of the paws on Barb's guns were not finished well at the bottom, and I had to rework them. I never noticed this issue when she used the OEM hammers. Just after the SBH install did this really show up. Makes me think(you should start run'n now )that the hole location for the paw in the SBH hammers was drill'd just a tiny bit lower that the OEM. That, and 'tolerance-stacking' may have come into play also. You're more that welcome to shoot'em next time we meet. Heck-You more than welcome to run my .44 OMV's if you like OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 That is not the part of the paw I'm referring to. I'm 'talking' about the bottom of the paw, down near the pivot/mounting point in the hammer. OLG Ok I wasn't really using the pick to show the pawl, only the relief cut in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Mike-Too bad Ruger is not put'n the notches in deep enough, is the real deal. Both of the paws on Barb's guns were not finished well at the bottom, and I had to rework them. I never noticed this issue when she used the OEM hammers. Just after the SBH install did this really show up. Makes me think(you should start run'n now )that the hole location for the paw in the SBH hammers was drill'd just a tiny bit lower that the OEM. That, and 'tolerance-stacking' may have come into play also. You're more that welcome to shoot'em next time we meet. Heck-You more than welcome to run my .44 OMV's if you like OLG Yeah. Some are too shallow and there are a lot of them out there too deep to allow the free spin pawl to completely disengage. Love my OMV .44 mags. They are all i shot up until about a year or so ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 CJ-I see that NOW. THX Mike why don't you go back to those .44's and I'll supply you with some of my 240gn bullet/44 loads I use. You'll still beat me and every other human, because your're a BORG BUT-You'll do it with .44's............ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I have a pair of New Vaqueros and I ONLY shoot them by slip hammering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I have a pair of New Vaqueros and I ONLY shoot them by slip hammering. How long have you had'em? Bought new? OEM hammers or SBH? THX, OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 That is not the part of the paw I'm referring to. I'm 'talking' about the bottom of the paw, down near the pivot/mounting point in the hammer. OLG OLG, I believe the 'pawl' is what you are referring to. Just trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 OLG, I believe the 'pawl' is what you are referring to. Just trying to help. I know-Just mess'n with folks. Besides, I'm a big time Dog lover. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I don't slip hammer but I have a relatively new stainless steel Ruger Vaquero that was binding up on cocking. It had little to no cylinder gap. I basically polished the rough mill marks off the barrel forcing cone face until a .003 gauge would slide through. I've only shot about 40 rounds through it but it has not bound up. Ruger's cylinder gaps have always been all over the place, but generally too small. Lead fouling will bind them up. Alos. .003 is still too tight for lead. .005 to .008 is spec. I believe that this is a different issue as I could clearly feel the trigger being pushed forward under my finger. Never had a chance to open them up and see why. It's not the pawl bottoming out. This can happen to both the new and the old Vaq's. Notice where the top of the T bar fits into the hammer notch. If the T bar is too long/high the hammer will try to push it down when fired and you will feel it in the trigger trying to move forward. Take a little off the top of the T bar or the hammer notch. This is also one of the reasons some will run with really light hammers spring but other won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Ruger's cylinder gaps have always been all over the place, but generally too small. Lead fouling will bind them up. Alos. .003 is still too tight for lead. .005 to .008 is spec. "Built like tanks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Ruger's cylinder gaps have always been all over the place, but generally too small. Lead fouling will bind them up. Alos. .003 is still too tight for lead. .005 to .008 is spec. It's not the pawl bottoming out. This can happen to both the new and the old Vaq's. Notice where the top of the T bar fits into the hammer notch. If the T bar is too long/high the hammer will try to push it down when fired and you will feel it in the trigger trying to move forward. Take a little off the top of the T bar or the hammer notch. This is also one of the reasons some will run with really light hammers spring but other won't. Nate-The issue I had was the bottom of the PAWL( ) with the new SBH was had enough contact-interference with the grip frame the the pawl could not engage the cyl ratchets. That's when I milled the TG frame notch out. THX for the T'bar tip. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 How long have you had'em? Bought new? OEM hammers or SBH? THX, OLG Got them right after they were released. Have had action jobs. Super Blackhawk hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Bill, SASS #4942 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Ruger's cylinder gaps have always been all over the place, but generally too small. Lead fouling will bind them up. Alos. .003 is still too tight for lead. .005 to .008 is spec. It's not the pawl bottoming out. This can happen to both the new and the old Vaq's. Notice where the top of the T bar fits into the hammer notch. If the T bar is too long/high the hammer will try to push it down when fired and you will feel it in the trigger trying to move forward. Take a little off the top of the T bar or the hammer notch. This is also one of the reasons some will run with really light hammers spring but other won't. If you fire the first shot from regular operation, then hold trigger back won't all Rugers work flawlessly? Have usually found holding trigger and trying to cock will not be good operation. ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 THX Rolan. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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