Safety question

[Mustang Gregg]

:FlagAm:

 

I was asked this by a new shooter the other day. But I was not able to find the answer in the rulebooks.

 

"If I am shooting a stage and halfway through my glasses fall off or an ear plug comes out, does the stage stop?"

 

My answer would be yes to that IMO.

Then he asked if he would get to re-shoot. I didn't think so. So I would look it up.

Is it in print somewhere?

 

MG

 

BTW: I lost an earplug during a big match once, and I kept on shooting. But it was not smart!

[Michigan Slim]

Had my shotgun yank an earplug a couple of times. Kept going. Did you know that .44's can be really loud? Should have stopped but kept on a goin.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Ear plugs. NO. Would say keep going.

 

Glasses. Find a way to get them back on before you keep going.

RO pick them up and hand them to you or what ever you need to safely do

to get them back on.

 

But don't think a reshoot is in order.

 

If so. You would see someone having a bad stage and all the sudden. There glasses come off.

 

Shooter needs to find a way to get them back on or take a DNF.

 

 

Just my opinion. And I have been wrong before.

[Mustang Gregg]

:FlagAm:

 

Yep. I was pondering someone just wanting a reshoot.

When mine came out it, I was using the EAR plugs with the silly string.

Now my personal SOP is to break the strings off.

 

Much obliged,

Mustang

[Anvil Al #59168]

:FlagAm:

 

Yep. I was pondering someone just wanting a reshoot.

When mine came out it, I was using the EAR plugs with the silly string.

Now my personal SOP is to break the strings off.

 

Much obliged,

Mustang

 

 

Took the strings off my plugs as soon as I got them.

 

Would not let the shooter keep shooting without glasses.

Just think they need to find a safe way to get them back on. ON the clock.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

My shooting glasses have a strap on them. Not always the most comfortable but not like losing an eye..... Ear plugs have a cord that I try to keep tucked away.

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Once a round has been sent down range, there there are no re-starts. Having a piece of equipment malfunction, whether it be an earplug, or your shotgun is not grounds for a restart or re-shoot.

 

Either keep going without the earplug/eyeglasses or alert the TO to the condition so he may assist you in making whatever firearm you have safe so you may pick up and put the item back in service.

RO1 - P23

RESHOOTS/RESTARTS
SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down
range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her
ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or fire arm malfunctions. However, if there is
a range failure (failure of props, timer, or the range officers) beyond the competitor’s control, a
restart may be granted. On a reshoot /restart, the competitor starts over clean, carrying only accrued safety penalt
ies forward. At all SASS annual club, state, Regional, National, and World Championship matches, no reshoots /restarts
will be given after the first shot goes down range as determined by the Chief Range Officer and the Match Director,
except for:
• Prop or match equipment failure.
• A Range Officer impeding the progress of the shooter
• Timer failure or unrecorded time

For example, if the Range Officer stops a shooter from completing a shooting sequence because
of a suspected squib load, and the gun turns out to be “clear,” the Range Officer has impeded the
progress of the shooter, and a restartis in order. In this case, the shooter starts over with no
misses or penalties (except safeties). Proper coaching or no coaching at all is not considered RO Interference
and therefore will never be grounds for a reshoot/restart

Restarts shall be allowed for a competitor to achieve a “clean” start, up to the point at which the
first round goes down range. Multiple restarts by the same shooter, that in the judgment of the
Timer Operator are seen to be taking advantage will not be entertained as they are not in the
spirit of the game.

 

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

Had my shotgun yank an earplug a couple of times. Kept going. Did you know that .44's can be really loud? Should have stopped but kept on a goin.

I had the same thing happen, did the same thing and should have stopped but kept going. I pulled the string off after finishing

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Yup, we talk a lot about safety but here competition trumps safety.

 

So what if you hurt your hearing.

 

So what if you you have eye problems. Not as important as keeping the match moving...

 

As to those who say, stop and fix the problem, remember that we cannot be trusted to safely pick up a dropped round off of a table and you want me to fix my glasses!!???

 

Get Real...

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Yup, we talk a lot about safety but here competition trumps safety.

 

So what if you hurt your hearing.

 

So what if you you have eye problems. Not as important as keeping the match moving...

 

As to those who say, stop and fix the problem, remember that we cannot be trusted to safely pick up a dropped round off of a table and you want me to fix my glasses!!???

 

Get Real...

 

I think a lot of it has to do with the shooter. No one mandates that the shooter keep going. No one forces the shooter to shoot without glasses on. I can tell you that when I am out hunting, I don't wear plugs. So 3-4 shotgun blasts isn't a big deal. Heck, a whole stage wouldn't be a big deal really. I'd just keep going - but that is the call that's best for me - YMMV

There are those that have strong prescription glasses that could not continue without them. These same folks would not be safe bending down to pick up an earplug or spectacles with a loaded firearm. So whats a guy to do?

 

Simple: stop shooting, look at the TO and tell them what happened. Allow the TO or counter to pick up the glasses for you. then safely ground or hand off your firearm so you can put your glasses back on.

 

Then keep shooting and smiling and enjoying the day. . . So you flubbed a stage. We all flub a stage eventually.

[Coalman]

Yes but what if RO stopped you then it should me grounds for reshoot Yes or No ????

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

as the TO I will stop the shooter 100% of the time!!! It is a safety issue!!!!

 

is there money at the end of the day,,, NO.

 

Imnoho I say, stop,,,, reshoot,,,,, however, shud a suspect someone has done it on purpose because they were having a bad stage,,, then no, put em back on and keep going!!!! then let the MD sort it out!

[Henry T Harrison]

I know this is probably to simple. Safely ground the firearm or hand it off and either take the misses or fix the problem and continue the stage

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Most major matches have a safety rule like Eye Protection is Mandatory; Ear Protection is Highly Recommended.

 

I would feel it is a requirement on the shooter to take whatever steps it takes to keep eye protection in place. Even if that means the shooter ejects any loaded round out of the gun, (unloads the long gun,) safely grounds the gun, corrects the eye protection problem, and reloads gun if needed and continues.

 

Ear protection - that's only recommended.

 

And under our No Alibi rules, the clock would be running. And if shooter violated range safety rule (shooting without eye protection), a SDQ.

 

This happens VERY rarely. And usually never again to that shooter.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

As a match director, if a TO stops a shooter for losing an ear plug I will offer that shooter a reshoot since hearing protection, while strongly encouraged is not mandatory. If a shooters glasses fall off they should be stopped until the situation is corrected. They can then finish the stage or take a DNF. No reshoot.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

However, if eye protection were to be damaged by something beyond shooter's control (like splatter) to the point where they were not safe (lens cracks, lens falls out, frame breaks, glasses get knocked off by a large chunk of lead), I would stop that on safety grounds, let shooter get replacement glasses, and allow a reshoot.

 

 

So I'd divide up the "must stop" and "give reshoot" decisions like this:

 

Shooter's actions caused loss of eye protection (bumped them, glasses fell off when moving, shooter seemed to intentionally shake off glasses) - shooter fixes on the clock, cannot continue shooting until eyewear is in place.

 

Beyond shooter's control - damage from splatter, or a gun coming apart, TO somehow caused glasses to fall off or break, prop falls on shooter and breaks glasses - stop shooter, full reshoot after shooter gets another set of eyewear.

 

Kinda depends upon the situation.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

then most of yu best hope you get me for a TO...I'll stop you period...

[Marauder SASS #13056]

(Sorry, sometimes over-emphasis of safety concerns get on my nerves especially when i see what to me is an obvious under-emphasis.)

 

But back on subject.

Another factor to consider is that many ranges do not have separate bays. In such cases, as soon as the glasses fall, the shooter is subject to being hit by lead from an adjacent range.

 

This happens so rarely. It is not like a non-safety equipment failure, it is a safety equipment failure which I believe should take priority.

 

If I were R.O., I too would stop the shooter if their eyes were not protected.

 

As to hearing, partially losing an ear plug is much more common. And the R.O. would not normally even be aware, so it is on the shooter. Fortunately most of our loads are relative light so there is not as much danger of hearing lose. So I have continued as have many other shooters.

 

I would support adding verbiage to the rules concerning stopping for safety issues. And clarify if a reshoot is allowed or not.

[Most Wanted]

RO 1 page 19 item 28 says that protective eye wear is Mandatory. So if for any reason the safety glasses are not in proper working order to allow for safe stage engagement how can you let the shooter continue. If I am a TO I will stop the shooter and if the problem can be fixed I will allow them to continue. If not then that's the end of the stage with NO reshoot. Since when do we give reshoots for shooters equipment failures.

[Anvil Al #59168]

RO 1 page 19 item 28 says that protective eye wear is Mandatory. So if for any reason the safety glasses are not in proper working order to allow for safe stage engagement how can you let the shooter continue. If I am a TO I will stop the shooter and if the problem can be fixed I will allow them to continue. If not then that's the end of the stage with NO reshoot. Since when do we give reshoots for shooters equipment failures.

 

 

Those are my feeling as well.

[Diamond S Doug]

My take.

 

1. Ear plugs are not mandatory, if your plugs fall out you may determine how to remedy the situation. You can continue to shoot or stop and reinstall them on the clock and keep going.

 

2. Eye protection is mandatory, if your glasses come off you don't send another round down range until you replace them, then continue the stage for a time. After you shoot if you want to request a reshoot there are procedures for protesting. I'll refer you to the PM or MD.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I would also stop the shooter at a monthly match but this is a really good question to bring up at a major match during the safety meeting.

 

Great post, never thought of this! This is why we have this wire!

 

Rye