Chantry Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I'm not sure where I acquired a taste for really nice double barrelled shotguns, but looking at the really nice ones at the better auctions I can so see myself spending serious money. Here's a website that has a bunch of nice ones for sale: http://www.vintagedoubles.com/ and if you are passing through CT, Ct Shotgun has a bunch of really nice ones for sale. http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. I. Tarpicker, SASS #998 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Some lovely stuff there. You might also check into James M. Julia Auctions for some absolutely beautiful double guns as well as Colts, Winchesters and other things of great interest. -- GIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I like doubles myself. SxS, O/U, it doesn't really matter. I hope to get enough money coming in soon to buy my Parker Repro. back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I have a Remington Whitmore Lifter Model 1878 Grade I SxS that enjoy shooting at an occasional CAS stage or taking to the field for bunnies and dovies. I am watching a Greener Forester (ca. 1902) at a local shop to see if the price drops anymore. It has about 85% of the metal finish left and the wood is very nice. There are some very nice scatterguns out there from days gone by that can be enjoyed without breaking the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 In about 1970 I passed on a Bernardelli Brescia three barrel set with outside hammers in 12 gauge because it was just over $350.00. Kicked myself many times since. Many, many times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Get the A 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 I've managed to acquire 3 so far, a Lefever Damascus hammerless 10g, an I. Hollis hammered 10g made in Birmingham, England and a hammered 16g with regular steel barrels Belgian Guild gun, which isn't as nice as the two 10g's. The 10g's and the 16g's seem to go for just a bit less then their 12g counterparts, probably because shooting the older ones is strictly for reloaders and 10g & 16g just aren't that popular in the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Get the A 10 I'm fortunate enough to be about 20 minutes from them and the gun store that is open to the public is simply amazing if one likes high end shotguns and double rifles. Only gun store I've ever been in where $5000 dollar shotguns are just laying in their cases on the floor or on the low racks where any other gunstore would put the inexpensive 22 rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Looks like a very nice gun. Too rich for my blood. I would suggest that for a collector item it might have some merit. But then again, if I could afford it, I would shoot it, and buy gold from the hucksters on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 If you are ever in the Springfield, Missouri BassPro store, check out their "Fine Gun" room. Guns there that will take your breath away, not only for their beauty but also the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 If I could afford one , I would love to have a Winchester model 21. Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Looks like a very nice gun. Too rich for my blood. I would suggest that for a collector item it might have some merit. But then again, if I could afford it, I would shoot it, and buy gold from the hucksters on TV. Too rich for my blood too, but to the best of my knowledge everything CT Shotgun makes is meant as a working gun. I'm guess we're not their target demographic. I kind of wish I was though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 One thing about it, I doubt that you would ever lose money on one of their products. I still get a chuckle when I watch the Holland and Holland video. Click on "VIEW OUR MOVIE" in the lower right corner at the bottom. http://hollandandholland.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I always keep my eyes open for the Winchester Model sitting in an estate for a grand. It could happen... One thing that I have learned about SxS shotguns is that their values are not even. To a small group of enthusiasts, they can be valued highly, but outside of that group, not so much. You have to know the makers and their many variations to understand the value (which I confess is beyond me). Some Parkers can be valued $10,000-plus while a similar looking Parker Trojan may be valued at $800. People that are not into classic SxS shotguns have absolutely no interest. I do not see this with leverguns, SAAs, Browning autos, or any number of other gun types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think there is a certain amount of perceived status in ownership of some flagship shotguns. When one pays the price of an excellent shotgun, one has the right to expect something special. There is also something in the feel and balance of a well made SXS or O/U. The good ones feel good, real good. The not so good ones feel not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think there is a certain amount of perceived status in ownership of some flagship shotguns. When one pays the price of an excellent shotgun, one has the right to expect something special. There is also something in the feel and balance of a well made SXS or O/U. The good ones feel good, real good. The not so good ones feel not so good. Agreed, it's the attention to detail and the little things that makes the difference, according to the book, Vintage British Shotguns, my Birmingham made Isaac Hollis is at best a medium grade by British standards, but the level of detail and the scrollwork in the metal just isn't found in the average American gun, you have to go to the Colt Custom Shop, CT Shotgun, Turnbull Mfg, or one of the small custom shops for similiar or better work. As an aside, according to the book, British collectors don't understand the American obession of all matching numbers and would prefer a really nice restoration over a gun with matching numbers in average condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Agreed, it's the attention to detail and the little things that makes the difference, according to the book, Vintage British Shotguns, my Birmingham made Isaac Hollis is at best a medium grade by British standards, but the level of detail and the scrollwork in the metal just isn't found in the average American gun, you have to go to the Colt Custom Shop, CT Shotgun, Turnbull Mfg, or one of the small custom shops for similiar or better work. As an aside, according to the book, British collectors don't understand the American obession of all matching numbers and would prefer a really nice restoration over a gun with matching numbers in average condition. I would have to agree with our British cousins on that. That little Japanese Browning SXS that I had was a delight for me to shoot. My only objection was that it had ejectors and I prefer extractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. I. Tarpicker, SASS #998 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 As far as American built SxS guns is concerned, there are still many Parker Bros., L. C. Smith, Ithaca and other makes out there which may not have the high condition wanted by the collectors but are still honest, useable guns quite suitable for a trip to quail cover, the duck blind or the sporting clays course. Many of these are also suitable for restoration. 12 ga. non-ejector, double trigger guns in the lower field grades seem to be most often encountered at a reasonable price. The higher the grade and smaller the bore, the higher the price. I've seen a fair number of 12 ga. Parker Trojans in shootable condition for $1k to $1500 or even a bit less. One caveat about vintage double guns is that stock dimensions on the older guns often don't fit today's shooters well. In many cases the drop at the heel is much greater than on modern guns. Then you're looking at an expensive re-stock or other modification. Some of the older guns also have short chambers and tight and tighter chokes; those can be easily modified by an experienced double gunsmith without severe damage to the value. The thrill of taking a double on a covey rise with a vintage double is hard to beat. If only those old guns could talk! GIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Nothing like a covey of Bobwhites to get your attention when they flush. Only once I have had the pleasure of hunting over a brace of trained dogs. A good double will double the pleasure. A long walk, in the pheasant fields, on warm autumn days, with a good balanced SXS is a pleasure every hunter should have at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 But... it breaks my heart to think of the fine SXS's that we soon won't be able to hunt with in California. The upcoming steel-shot only requirement for all hunting - even upland birds - will retire most fine (and not-so-fine!) double guns to trap and skeet ranges only. Or make 'em safe queens. Unless, of course, you don't mind spending up to $350 for a 25 lb bag of bismuth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 But... it breaks my heart to think of the fine SXS's that we soon won't be able to hunt with in California. The upcoming steel-shot only requirement for all hunting - even upland birds - will retire most fine (and not-so-fine!) double guns to trap and skeet ranges only. Or make 'em safe queens. Unless, of course, if you don't mind spending up to $350 for a 25 lb bag of bismuth.... More PC BS from the trouth of the tree huggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I have a couple. My favorite is a Zephyr Upland King. It is a Spanish made sidelock double in 20 ga, engraved, vent rib and an absolute unbelievable piece of French Walnut. It is 3", F & M chokes. My wife bought it for me for Christmas a long time ago. I have shot a lot of upland game with it and I love it almost as much as her! I also have an AYA sidelock in 28 ga that was her father's. I shoot it too, but the Upland King is my favorite.Funny thing about the UK is that the Blue Book of Gun Values says it was never made in 20 ga. Maybe I have a one of a kind.....NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I have always lusted after a 28 gauge SXS for Bob Whites. At this stage of the game, I doubt that it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm getting up early tomorrow for the dove season opener. I you like really good doubles, this may interest you: http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_guns.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 As far as American built SxS guns is concerned, there are still many Parker Bros., L. C. Smith, Ithaca and other makes out there which may not have the high condition wanted by the collectors but are still honest, useable guns quite suitable for a trip to quail cover, the duck blind or the sporting clays course. Many of these are also suitable for restoration. 12 ga. non-ejector, double trigger guns in the lower field grades seem to be most often encountered at a reasonable price. The higher the grade and smaller the bore, the higher the price. I've seen a fair number of 12 ga. Parker Trojans in shootable condition for $1k to $1500 or even a bit less. One caveat about vintage double guns is that stock dimensions on the older guns often don't fit today's shooters well. In many cases the drop at the heel is much greater than on modern guns. Then you're looking at an expensive re-stock or other modification. Some of the older guns also have short chambers and tight and tighter chokes; those can be easily modified by an experienced double gunsmith without severe damage to the value. The thrill of taking a double on a covey rise with a vintage double is hard to beat. If only those old guns could talk! GIT I've got a 1923 vintage Fox Sterlingworth 12 ga. double that I've had since I was 15 (53 years now) and I still use it during small game seasons. I refinished the stock and forend in the early '70's, had a re-blue job done on the barrels, and the receiver got a fresh color case hardening job. It shoots great and looks great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm getting up early tomorrow for the dove season opener. I you like really good doubles, this may interest you: http://www.chuckhawks.com/best_guns.htm Great article. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have a couple. My favorite is a Zephyr Upland King. It is a Spanish made sidelock double in 20 ga, engraved, vent rib and an absolute unbelievable piece of French Walnut. It is 3", F & M chokes. My wife bought it for me for Christmas a long time ago. I have shot a lot of upland game with it and I love it almost as much as her! I also have an AYA sidelock in 28 ga that was her father's. I shoot it too, but the Upland King is my favorite.Funny thing about the UK is that the Blue Book of Gun Values says it was never made in 20 ga. Maybe I have a one of a kind.....NOT! I too had a Zephyr Upland King, bought it in Conn., it was imported by Stoger then, '68 as I recall. Turned up missing during a PCS move yrs ago. Agree with you it was a great bird gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Dang it Chantry! Now you got my mind stuck on the nice feel of a SXS. I ain't capable of more than one thunk at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 It is my opinion that very few things in this life give as much pleasure as a fine double shotgun. I have what I consider two fine bird guns. A 20-gauge Browning Superposed Lightning with 26.5-inch barrels, choked Improved Cylinder and Modified. I bought this shotgun in 1972 out of the Yong Song PX, Seoul, S. Korea. I've bagged a lot of birds with this gun. The other is a 16-gauge Arrieta 578 with 28-inch barrels, choked Skeet 1 and Skeet 2. My family gave me this fine bird gun in the year 2000. Has beautiful wood and nice rose & scroll engraving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Dang it Chantry! Now you got my mind stuck on the nice feel of a SXS. I ain't capable of more than one thunk at a time. It's ok, I'm getting the urge for another double again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Well, be sure to share wit us. Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. I. Tarpicker, SASS #998 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Ah, birdgun, I see you posted Mike Orlen's choke chart. I had Mike open the chokes from tight modified and fuller to improved cylinder and modified and lengthen the chambers on a 1908 vintage 28 ga. Parker Bros. VH. His work and turnaround time is excellent, and I now have the best quail and dove gun I've ever owned. It weighs 5-3/4 lbs. and is a joy to carry in the field all day. BTW, I would recommend to anyone shooting these vintage doubles to stay with low pressure loads. There are many available although not generally at bargain prices. Paying more for shells is better than overloading a fine gun and at risk to the shooter as well. GIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 It's ok, I'm getting the urge for another double again. To be clear, you mean a double barrel shotgun? A double of good Scotch or other adult refreshment could be good as well. As I re-read it and ponder, I did find one thing in the article Harvey Mushman linked to interesting. I don't find the Krieghoffs to be overly heavy, even when they have 32" or so of barrel out in front for trap. When I shot sporting clays earlier this year, I didn't find it particularly difficult or unpleasant to carry one for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 To be clear, you mean a double barrel shotgun? A double of good Scotch or other adult refreshment could be good as well. As I re-read it and ponder, I did find one thing in the article Harvey Mushman linked to interesting. I don't find the Krieghoffs to be overly heavy, even when they have 32" or so of barrel out in front for trap. When I shot sporting clays earlier this year, I didn't find it particularly difficult or unpleasant to carry one for the day. Either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ah, birdgun, I see you posted Mike Orlen's choke chart. I had Mike open the chokes from tight modified and fuller to improved cylinder and modified and lengthen the chambers on a 1908 vintage 28 ga. Parker Bros. VH. His work and turnaround time is excellent, and I now have the best quail and dove gun I've ever owned. It weighs 5-3/4 lbs. and is a joy to carry in the field all day. BTW, I would recommend to anyone shooting these vintage doubles to stay with low pressure loads. There are many available although not generally at bargain prices. Paying more for shells is better than overloading a fine gun and at risk to the shooter as well. GIT Here is one source of low pressure, smokeless shotgun rounds: http://www.rstshells.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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