How far is a day's ride?

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

For those people fortunate enough to not own horses...

 

Here's a trot. This is actually more of a western "seated" trot, and not a very good one honestly. The rider is moving more than he should for a seated trot. His core strength doesn't really appear up to the task.

 

This is the english trot. More tiring than a western trot to me. My wife thinks its easier though... You post (rise up out of the saddle with your legs) every other "beat."

 

 

And here's a lope. (same gait and basic movement by the rider is called a canter in the English disciplines) Slow lope oughta be around 10-12mph, call a fast lope around 15mph.

 

 

Hopefully that makes it obvious which one's easier on the rider. And remember that as the rider wears out in the trot, bouncing in the saddle makes it harder on the horse, wearing out the horse faster.

 

So... Figuring that a good horse that is ridden all the time (being the primary mode of transport in those days) will recover it's heartrate in maybe 15-20 minutes of walking, after 45mins - an hour at a lope...

 

I'll let you do the math for 10mph for 45mins - an hour, followed by 15-20mins at a 4mph working walk... Call it 7-8mph average.

 

And if the horse is in good enough shape to keep it's heart rate below 150bpm while doin that...

 

Then you have that old cowboy doin close to 80 miles in one day, with a couple stops here and there.

[Old Scatterbrain]

Here's a trot and so forth

For whatever it's worth, most of the buggies I see around here, the horse is either trotting or just ambling along nice and slow.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

For whatever it's worth, most of the buggies I see around here, the horse is either trotting or just ambling along nice and slow.

 

Yeah, a horse can go a loooooong ways at a trot.

 

My in-laws are surrounded by Amish and Mennonite farms and communities where they live in KY. I've only rarely seen them actually ride their horses, and then it's typically a young rider.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

this has been a most interesting thread!!! took me a while to open it, but I am glad I did....

 

there is a horse in the KY horse museum in Lexington, a race horse, can't remember it's name, didn't look like much of a race horse, but it's heart was 50-75% bigger than a normal horse heart, it's endurance was remarkable....

 

again, great post...

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

this has been a most interesting thread!!! took me a while to open it, but I am glad I did....

 

there is a horse in the KY horse museum in Lexington, a race horse, can't remember it's name, didn't look like much of a race horse, but it's heart was 50-75% bigger than a normal horse heart, it's endurance was remarkable....

 

again, great post...

 

Secretariat had a large heart. He was mentioned earlier in this thread I think. His stride was also a bit longer than average. Those two items helped him set several records that still stand I believe.

 

I know his 1.5 mile dirt track record still stands. He averaged something like 37-38mph over that race, and won by a huge margin.

 

He was a pretty good looking horse though, I thought.

 

And that larger heart things is an occasional Thoroughbred trait. I'm not sure it's been seen in other breeds.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

So? An outright run, where you want to "head them off at the pass" Is that a gallop? or something different?

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

the one I'm thinking of wasn't secretariat,,,, guess I otta google it....duh..

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

So? An outright run, where you want to "head them off at the pass" Is that a gallop? or something different?

Outright run is a gallop. Although there's a "hand gallop" too, where they're also running, but you're not lettin them go full speed.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

the one I'm thinking of wasn't secretariat,,,, guess I otta google it....duh..

Seabiscuit? He was ugly by horse standards, and at 15.2 was way smaller than most.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

cud be, it was smaller, shorter than most, I couldn't find anything on it ..

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Well he's another famous thoroughbred that won a lot and had an enlarged heart.

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

In my humble (?) opinion anyone that can not sit a trot comfortably shouldnt lope or gallop! you must learn to walk (trot) before you can run!! I will admit some horses have an easy trot and some are just miserable but if you are using your horse for work, you trot where ever you want to go. That saves the horse ifn you have to chase something..like a cow.

I worked for a few people that would tear you a new one if they caught you running their horses for no reason. My uncle was one.

I very seldom loped the horse I was riding, we troted where we wanted to go.. I assume the horse wanted to go where I did.

As I said... jest my humble opinion..
Tascosa ( who was acquainted with some ruff trotting horses)

PS. Holly weird actors lope or gallop their horses cause most of them cant ride!

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Must be Seabiscut, I read his bio and that sounds familiar. from the statue thay have there he looked more of a work horse than a race horse.

 

Trainers are the key, even with dogs, we usually don't even begin to get even close to all out of a dog....

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

In my humble (?) opinion anyone that can not sit a trot comfortably shouldnt lope or gallop! you must learn to walk (trot) before you can run!! I will admit some horses have an easy trot and some are just miserable but if you are using your horse for work, you trot where ever you want to go. That saves the horse ifn you have to chase something..like a cow.

I worked for a few people that would tear you a new one if they caught you running their horses for no reason. My uncle was one.

I very seldom loped the horse I was riding, we troted where we wanted to go.. I assume the horse wanted to go where I did.

As I said... jest my humble opinion..

Tascosa ( who was acquainted with some ruff trotting horses)

PS. Holly weird actors lope or gallop their horses cause most of them cant ride!

 

You are correct . And I'm not talking about ability as much as comfort. Human nature being prone to choosing comfort above all else under most circumstances. I can sit a trot on most animals, some animals not at all. In either case, I'm simply less comfortable at a trot than a lope. I suspect it's largely due to the fact that gravity has increased it's force in recent years .

 

A reasonably conditioned horse should be able to maintain a slow lope for quite some time, given the regular oportunity to slow down and recover it's heart and respiratory rate. It's been a long time since I spent more than an hour or two on top of a horse, but I don't think my memory of the constitution of a certain few horses back then is that flawed, .

 

Now... I'm also not speaking about working horses, over a days time. If you're working cattle, you're absolutely walking every inch you can, and saving the horses strength to lope or "hand gallop" and occasionally even physically push cattle back to the herd. Cowboys on trail drives of much distance had a remuda following the cattle herd, and would go through several horses each day. The cow ponies they rode weren't the same caliber that most personal horses were, but it's still an indication of how hard they used their animals.

 

I'm speaking about traveling distance on your personal horse.

 

And, as you eluded to, many other factors come in to play. Even a slow lope over rough ground has the potential to tear a horses feet up, where a trot most likely won't. On the prairie sod... You'll have a lot better luck.

 

And nearly every bit of my distance experience with horses is with the endurance animals.

 

My personal logic being that I would think more horses of quality breeding in the old west were as capable as the modern endurance animal than not, simply because they were in constant use.

 

This is one of those conversations that can go around and around and around again though

 

I'm sure both of our opinions are based on individual experience and some speculation. I like ford, you like dodge... and your mileage may vary :lol:

[DocWard]

I'll stay away from the discussion about the riding, since I am very much a novice. My wife has been riding and showing horses since she was a kid, from 4H through Quarter Horse, and I have picked up a couple of things in that time, though, and with a medical background, a couple of things come to mind.

 

For starters, from a medical standpoint, Secretariat, and others like him, did not have "enlarged hearts." That term, medically called "cardiomegaly" is a heart condition which often ultimately leads to congestive heart failure. Instead, Secretariat had what would be called an abnormally large or oversized heart. The normal horse heart weighs somewhere around 8.5 pounds. Secretariat's was somewhere around 22 pounds, but it was physically a healthy heart. Sham, Secretariat's rival in the Triple Crown, had the second heaviest heart on record, at 18 pounds. The size is evidently caused by a mutation in the X chromosome, passed through the female line. It seems this particular X chromosome can be traced back at least to Eclipse, foaled in England in the late 1700's. Apparently, this factor can be found in Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses and Standardbreds. It is likely Seabiscuit also had an oversized heart.

 

http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm

 

http://www.spiletta.com/UTHOF/hippology/xfactor.html

 

The other factor that Secretariat had going for him was his conformation, allowing him to have an incredible stride angle and length. His angle is among the largest out there, and his stride length, measured at 25', was also huge. Point of note: His owner indicated that his stride length was greater, because it was measured at a point where he was actually accelerating.

 

Oh, and when I need a bit of inspiration, I watch this:

 

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Good post Doc.

 

I'm not sure very many horses have ever come close to his stride. I'd have to ask my wife...

 

But I'd bet there are almost none with that sort of stride and a large heart.

 

I'd been under the impression that the large heart thing was a thoroughbred trait. I guess it's not that big a stretch to find one in a quarter or appendix though, with all the thoroughbred blood that a lot of them have in their background.

[DocWard]

Good post Doc.

 

I'm not sure very many horses have ever come close to his stride. I'd have to ask my wife...

 

But I'd bet there are almost none with that sort of stride and a large heart.

 

I'd been under the impression that the large heart thing was a thoroughbred trait. I guess it's not that big a stretch to find one in a quarter or appendix though, with all the thoroughbred blood that a lot of them have in their background.

 

Thanks!

 

As I understand it, that's the key with Quarter Horses, as they carry Thoroughbred genes and Thoroughbreds are considered a foundation breed. My wife once owned a Quarter Horse gelding that traced back to Man O' War on one side. She owned a mare that was from a Thoroughbred, Swift Solo, who had offspring which were large money earners in the Quarter Horse world. She rides Hunter Under Saddle, by the way. Her current horse is an appendix gelding, Seventeen-plus hands, and looks every bit the Thoroughbred.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Nice! We have a quarter with great bloodlines that's not a very motivated horse, but he's bomb proof. I traded my lazy appendix for a thoroughbred for her, nothing worth noting in the t-bred's bloodlines, but he's turned out to have a lot of potential. My wife had a couple that were both performers and well bred years ago, when we met she had more money in horses than I did in a house haha. Of course, time and kids change things, but she's trying to get back to it.

 

She's an eventer as well.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

And it's probably best if none of us let our wives read this thread, haha!

 

We'll find out how wrong we really are.

[DocWard]

Nice! We have a quarter with great bloodlines that's not a very motivated horse, but he's bomb proof. I traded my lazy appendix for a thoroughbred for her, nothing worth noting in the t-bred's bloodlines, but he's turned out to have a lot of potential. My wife had a couple that were both performers and well bred years ago, when we met she had more money in horses than I did in a house haha. Of course, time and kids change things, but she's trying to get back to it.

 

She's an eventer as well.

 

Yeah, Mrs. Doc has had a couple that would've been amazing if they were motivated to do anything other than eat and breathe. I've often said that I enjoy, even love shooting, but she is passionate about riding like I am about nothing I do. Before we were ever married, I was well aware that if I were to say "it's either me or the horse," I had better be packing my bag at the time. One of the reasons I have been shooting so little over the past couple of years with the job and income change has been because it is more important to me for her to ride.

 

Does she do Cross Country eventing? Aren't those the ones who wear their blood type and medical information on them during events for the medical professionals?

 

And it's probably best if none of us let our wives read this thread, haha!

 

We'll find out how wrong we really are.

 

That's why I decided to stay quiet about the riding aspect itself. I know just how wrong I could be! I am more confident I am on safer ground with the rest.

[The Shoer 27979]

 

You are correct . And I'm not talking about ability as much as comfort. Human nature being prone to choosing comfort above all else under most circumstances. I can sit a trot on most animals, some animals not at all. In either case, I'm simply less comfortable at a trot than a lope. I suspect it's largely due to the fact that gravity has increased it's force in recent years .

 

A reasonably conditioned horse should be able to maintain a slow lope for quite some time, given the regular oportunity to slow down and recover it's heart and respiratory rate. It's been a long time since I spent more than an hour or two on top of a horse, but I don't think my memory of the constitution of a certain few horses back then is that flawed, .

 

Now... I'm also not speaking about working horses, over a days time. If you're working cattle, you're absolutely walking every inch you can, and saving the horses strength to lope or "hand gallop" and occasionally even physically push cattle back to the herd. Cowboys on trail drives of much distance had a remuda following the cattle herd, and would go through several horses each day. The cow ponies they rode weren't the same caliber that most personal horses were, but it's still an indication of how hard they used their animals.

 

I'm speaking about traveling distance on your personal horse.

 

And, as you eluded to, many other factors come in to play. Even a slow lope over rough ground has the potential to tear a horses feet up, where a trot most likely won't. On the prairie sod... You'll have a lot better luck.

 

And nearly every bit of my distance experience with horses is with the endurance animals.

 

My personal logic being that I would think more horses of quality breeding in the old west were as capable as the modern endurance animal than not, simply because they were in constant use.

 

This is one of those conversations that can go around and around and around again though

 

I'm sure both of our opinions are based on individual experience and some speculation. I like ford, you like dodge... and your mileage may vary :lol:

hey Tom I am going to throw this in the pot just to stir it up more. You also have to consider breeds too

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

 

Yeah, Mrs. Doc has had a couple that would've been amazing if they were motivated to do anything other than eat and breathe. I've often said that I enjoy, even love shooting, but she is passionate about riding like I am about nothing I do. Before we were ever married, I was well aware that if I were to say "it's either me or the horse," I had better be packing my bag at the time. One of the reasons I have been shooting so little over the past couple of years with the job and income change has been because it is more important to me for her to ride.

 

Does she do Cross Country eventing? Aren't those the ones who wear their blood type and medical information on them during events for the medical professionals?

 

 

That's why I decided to stay quiet about the riding aspect itself. I know just how wrong I could be! I am more confident I am on safer ground with the rest.

Yeah she does (did, trying to again) the three day events. Dressage, hunter, cross country. And I think the blood type and medical details is case by case, but I could be wrong. Either way, the cross country courses are not forgiving. Solid logs that don't fall, 6 foot ditches, fences, etc...

 

I pretend I'm deaf when she talks about it.

 

And we take turns with purchases for our hobbies. She gets a horse, I get a boot, she gets a saddle, I get the other boot.

 

It works out...

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

hey Tom I am going to throw this in the pot just to stir it up more. You also have to consider breeds too

Yeah, Arabs dominate distance running.

 

Mustangs can be right up there with them.

 

Then sport horses, the Arabians crossed with all manner of other breeds.

 

Thoroughbreds will always be the kings of high speed over a mile or two.

 

Quarters and Appendix will always be the kings of the sprint.

 

Then you have a half dozen wild card breeds. Appaloosa, Paints, etc...

 

Buddy of mine who's parents sponsored that race when I was a young teen... He had a 16 hand palomino appy mare that had no quit in it. I swear it could run for days.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

I wish I knew this. My Grandad said he in about 1900 he made two trips via mule from Bollinger Co, MO to Dublin, TX. He always laughed and wouldn't say anymore to a young button like me. Now there is no one left that knows the details of the story. Now I wish I had been keeping a journal.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

My experience with riding horses (& mules) has been backcountry and mountain riding. I worked at a pack station in California when I was in college and have taken wilderness hunting/fishing/camping trips for 60 years (see my post on pg1). Any of you have experience with riding mule for this kind of use? I really like some of them, smart sure footed and strong.......of course they all are not created equal, same as horses.

[The Shoer 27979]

Yeah, Arabs dominate distance running.

 

Mustangs can be right up there with them.

 

Then sport horses, the Arabians crossed with all manner of other breeds.

 

Thoroughbreds will always be the kings of high speed over a mile or two.

 

Quarters and Appendix will always be the kings of the sprint.

 

Then you have a half dozen wild card breeds. Appaloosa, Paints, etc...

 

Buddy of mine who's parents sponsored that race when I was a young teen... He had a 16 hand palomino appy mare that had no quit in it. I swear it could run for days.

I use to Shoe in a private barn full of Arabs, the owner trained them for reining. Those Arabs could put on a fine reining show. I also had an Arab gelding that could hold his own against most quarter horse when it came to working cows or roping. Then there was my Arab/Quarter Mare (only had her 2 years) I could rope off of her but never had the opportunity to work any cows or do anything for that mater. A lot of people will turn their noses up at Arabs, but I found out that they can do more than most people think

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

My experience with riding horses (& mules) has been backcountry and mountain riding. I worked at a pack station in California when I was in college and have taken wilderness hunting/fishing/camping trips for 60 years (see my post on pg1). Any of you have experience with riding mule for this kind of use? I really like some of them, smart sure footed and strong.......of course they all are not created equal, same as horses.

 

Yes. Mules are the diesel pickups of the 4 legged carry you critters.

 

And, just like people think diesel trucks won't go fast... Mules can surprise you. As I posted earlier, a 60+ year old gentlemen got third on one of the long routes of that endurance race when I was a kid, while riding a big mule.

 

They're less spooky on trails too, usually.

 

I use to Shoe in a private barn full of Arabs, the owner trained them for reining. Those Arabs could put on a fine reining show. I also had an Arab gelding that could hold his own against most quarter horse when it came to working cows or roping. Then there was my Arab/Quarter Mare (only had her 2 years) I could rope off of her but never had the opportunity to work any cows or do anything for that mater. A lot of people will turn their noses up at Arabs, but I found out that they can do more than most people think

 

Arabs can go either way in my experience. "Sport horses," arab/quarter or any other combination, are either really good or really bad. The only time I got angry at my wife for selling a horse was when she sold a arab/draft cross she had. He wasn't that comfortable of a ride, but he sure was an awesome horse. You could do anything on him, go through anything, jump anything...

 

Flip side of that... I had an arab/quarter that was a self setting time bomb. He was a beautiful horse though. Amish family has him now, and they hate him too.

 

Here's an old picture of my wife on him.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

We showed Paint horses for a good number of years. Blue Ribbon was our main horse. He was shown by me in open, my wife in amateur, and my son in youth. He had points in about 14 events. He was the first Superior Performance Horse in Ohio. He was never the prettiest, and often not the best in some events, but would do almost anything we asked. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=115251135154046&set=t.100000543192239&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc3%2Ft1.0-9%2F25379_115251135154046_1836853_n.jpg&size=720%2C479

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Dragging up an old thread here... But I was reading about the Mountain Meadows massacre a little bit ago.

 

When the Mormon's were trying to decide what to do about the Baker–Fancher party they sent a guy named James Haslam to Salt Lake City to ask for Brigham Young's advice. That was a 6 day round trip, and by google maps, today it's about 500 miles.

 

Or, about 80 miles a day.

 

Probably ought to be considered a ride made under emergency conditions, but every time I've ever read about this sort of thing it backs up the stories I heard as a kid. Close to 80 miles is doable, depending on animal and terrain.

 

Either way, James Haslam left Cedar City either sometime during the night of September 6th, 1857, or early the next morning. He got to Salt Lake on the 10th, and was back in Cedar City on the 13th with Brigham's response. Which was two days after the massacre.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

It never hurts when you have a horse that just loves to run.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Wow!

 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gQrqHDBQ4o

 

 

(sorry, sorry....I've always wanted to do that on a resurrected thread)

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

I figured I'd get a link to this thread if I started a new one.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I figured I'd get a link to this thread if I started a new one.

 

Nah....only for things posted a day or two before, or posted something like six times in three days.

[Cat Brules]

I question the idea that men and horses were tougher "back then". Men today aren't used to it, but would EASILY adapt and there are plenty of good animals up to the task.

 

It may have been easier to FIND a good horse back then, but still not difficult today. What IS difficult today is finding a competent person to find the horse. I could pick the horse and take maybe 12 weeks to get it into condition and I will give you 30-mile days, with a break of a day or so (or a shorter travel day) every three days AND, with my not-so young ass riding it. That takes time, skill, patience, empathy with the animal, common (horse) sense and obviously, money. As the animal continued to get into condition and with periodic week-long breaks, the daily distances would increase. You would need water and good feed to keep the animal's strength up just as any athlete would require to keep going. With the animal being ridden like that and, given that you wouldn't always be able to choose the terrain, you'd want the animal shod by a competent farrier. Once you get off the animal, the work isn't over for you, either.

 

We must remember that in earlier times, especially in the West, horses were (reluctantly) expendable, to one degree or another. Not so today. Another thing is that if you look at an endurance horse, they have a "look" about them. It really takes a long time; maybe a year and often longer, of routine, almost daily, longer distance riding to "train up" an endurance horse, then as well as today. In earlier times, just as today, there were "town" horses, "ranch" horses and tough working horses.

[Guest Grass Range #51406]

horse cavalry rode standing up in the stirrups at anything faster than a walk. This is much easier on the horse and they did trot often but never a run. McClellan saddles are cut out in the seat to keep the horses back cool. Hollywood types sitting on their ass while running a horse should be knocked off. Post if necessary but don't sit