Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I know you can't respond here with loading data, but I am starting to play with Triple 7 in .38 Special and I need to know what the minimum is to pass the "smoke" test. If you could please PM with some info I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Dang It Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 A compressed load will be just enough to combust completely AND meet the smoke requirement (for all BP and subs). This is the only way to load any BP or BP sub, unless you want to make loading difficult with wads and fillers. 777 is a sub that maximizes velocity (a.k.a. pressure and recoil). Pyrodex and most other subs also work this way. APP is the only sub that I have tried that gives lower pressures and velocity. For all BP and subs, FFg will have lower pressure and velocity than FFFg but may require a magnum primer to combust fully and consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 PM sent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This may help http://www.curtrich.com/0811SmokeStandard.html P.S. You may be happier with Pinnacle .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Thanks for the info so far. My understanding is that you don't have to fill the case with Triple 7 - an airgap is ok so no filler is needed either. Just confirming that as well. Still looking for more info. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 This is from Hodgdens website. Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below. I added the red in the middle to make it easier to find. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ok, just so you have been told what the folks who MAKE the stuff have to say on this subject: Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. This comes from the Hodgdon 777 web site: http://hodgdon.com/loading.html They have one recommended load for the 125 grain bullet, and one for a 158 grain, in .38 spl. Both of those have enough FFg listed to make the smoke standard. To get to the loading data, use the "Loads" link from the web page, and follow it to get to the loading data pamphlet they provide. http://hodgdon.com/tripleseven.html Good luck, GJ Dang, RSE - you beat me on that 'un.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Howdy Dan, many overlook this part of the info listed above -- "....Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only." If you pick up a bottle of FFFG, it says on the label not to use in cartridges. It's fine for C&B though. Regarding smoke, I've found 777 makes plenty of it. Clean up is a breeze. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Why use 777 instead of real BP? A casefull of 3F Goex, and I'll know you'll make any so called 'smoke-standard' there is. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Why use 777 instead of real BP? A casefull of 3F Goex, and I'll know you'll make any so called 'smoke-standard' there is. LG smokeless bullets. It's a great way to get started with smokey stuff without committing to BP-specific bullets the first time out. I shoot BP, subs and smokeless. Just depends on what voices I'm hearing that day and what's in stock on my bench. It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Any BP lubed bullet will work just fine with smokeless. I shoot moly coated, and have no issues with either powder type. YMMV,LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Hanlon Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Why is FFFG not for use in cartridges? Thinking about using 777 in 32-20 cartridges for rifle and pistols. Should I use FFG or can I use FFFG? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Dang, some folks just gotta tempt the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Why is FFFG not for use in cartridges? Thinking about using 777 in 32-20 cartridges for rifle and pistols. Should I use FFG or can I use FFFG? Thanks Manufacture's directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks for the info everyone. I think I have what I need. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good news, bad news: Good: One of CAS's best shooters is considering black powder. Bad: One of CAS's best shooters is considering black powder. Dang it, Dan, will I never win another match as a soot lord??? Ah well, once the blackpowder bug bites, it's effects are profound!! Welcome to the madness. Let me know if you want info on blackpowder shotshells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 this is for a special cat at the Georgia state shoot,,, requires two stages to be shoot FC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good news, bad news: Good: One of CAS's best shooters is considering black powder. Bad: One of CAS's best shooters is considering black powder. Dang it, Dan, will I never win another match as a soot lord??? Ah well, once the blackpowder bug bites, it's effects are profound!! Welcome to the madness. Let me know if you want info on blackpowder shotshells. Thank you for the kind words. J-Bar, I have already been bitten by the black powder bug. I think it's one of the most fun things you can do actually, but I am still trying to get the hang of being a Gunfighter so I may shoot a little FCGF in the future. THIS, however is for a special category that I will be shooting in Georgia called "All Around Cowboy". A shooter must shoot two stages Traditional, two duelist, two Gunfighter, two "freestyle" and two Blackpowder Cartridge. I am considering using Triple Seven because I don't want to worry about cleaning my guns after shooting the BP stages. Otherwise I would use Goex or Shocky's Gold. I already have my shotshell load down so I should be set. Thanks Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I am considering using Triple Seven because I don't want to worry about cleaning my guns after shooting the BP stages. Howdy Dan. If you plan on shooting them again in a smokeless category soon after, I suggest running a couple of wet patches on a jag thru the cylinders and barrels, followed by a dry patch. Some soot will come out, but not as much as BP. Then relube as you wish. Sounds like fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Howdy Dan. If you plan on shooting them again in a smokeless category soon after, I suggest running a couple of wet patches on a jag thru the cylinders and barrels, followed by a dry patch. Some soot will come out, but not as much as BP. Then relube as you wish. Sounds like fun! +1. Also, wipe the front of the cylinder and barrel breech end. That's all that is necessary, and it will be worth the minimal effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Quinton, SASS #4818 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hmmmmm --- me thinks I have a distinct recollection of the very first bite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hmmmmm --- me thinks I have a distinct recollection of the very first bite! You should!! I was resistant to the idea, but then again, "no boom, no bonus". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKenzie River Drifter, #74138 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I would suggest relubing you guns after 777 and before smokeless. 777 seems to dry up any lube on the guns. Maybe just a light squirt of Balistol. McKenzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Thanks. Guns are all stainless so no bluing required. Thanks to everyone. I have my set load and am ready to go. Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good luck, and have fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Buffalo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here is a great manual to download http://www.pulverlehrgang.de/Downloads/Ladedaten/CowboyManualHodgdon.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rodgers Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I load a case full of FFFG in 777 because it feeds easier in my Dillon. Fill the case, but do not compress. I shoot 44 Russian in my pistols and 44/40 in my rifle with 200 gr bullets that have smokeless lube. Triple seven gives a little more bounce for the ounce, but it is very manageable. I suggest you start with a can of FFFG and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I load a case full of FFFG in 777 because it feeds easier in my Dillon. Fill the case, but do not compress. I shoot 44 Russian in my pistols and 44/40 in my rifle with 200 gr bullets that have smokeless lube. Triple seven gives a little more bounce for the ounce, but it is very manageable. I suggest you start with a can of FFFG and go from there. You might want to read the label on the bottle of 777 FFFG where it says in red letters do not use for cartridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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