Wild Bunch "Open " category

[Nota John, SASS #51089L]

In yesterday's match, some shooters marked their cards with "Wild Bunch Open" category. I presume this wasan old category. Is this now cosidered Traditional or Modern? Please advise so I may compltete the scores. Thank you. Nota John

[Ranger Dunn]

Depends on the club, but around here that means some other caliber rifle, like a .38, or a different guage shotgun like16 or 20. Allowed at monthly matches to let people try out Wild Bunch before they buy.

[J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526]

Nota John,

Put all of the Modern and Open under the same category; Modern. We only have two categories, WB Traditional & WB Modern. Shooters listed as "Open" were shooting 9mm or 45's with pistols that does not conform to the rules for traditional or if they are shooting with a two hand grip, they should be in Modern also.

 

JSS

[royal barnes sass #5792]

At our monthly those who shoot off caliber, different gauge are placed in an open category and shoot for no score.

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

At our monthly those who shoot off caliber, different gauge are placed in an open category and shoot for no score.

 

We have started doing the same thing. We're trying to buld interest so we let folks "shoot what they go" to let them try WB out. Sort of an adaptaion of build it and they will come: shoot it and they will come back!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

At our monthly those who shoot off caliber, different gauge are placed in an open category and shoot for no score.

 

We have started doing the same thing. We're trying to buld interest so we let folks "shoot what they go" to let them try WB out. Sort of an adaptaion of build it and they will come: shoot it and they will come back!

Yep, I agree it's a great way to recruit new shooters. We will be scoring the Open category but they are not eligible for any Overall match standings. In other words they are shooting a seperate match of their own. Modern and Traditional are the only sanctioned categories for Overall match standings. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I am all for an Open category allowing 1300s, 870s, 37s, 9mm 1911s etc etc. EXCEPT for Glocks. I love my Glocks but the factory barrels are totally incompatible with the lead bullets we use. The polygonal rifling builds up lead and with enuff of it packed in there the gun becomes a grenade. I will not spot, brass shag, or stand on the line with anyone shooting lead in a Glock unless the shooter assures me he has an aftermarket Wilson, Lone Wolf or other aftermarket barrel designed to use lead projectiles. And yes I have seen Glocks grenade. I am allergic to shrapnel.

 

The Open category should be just for fun with no score in the official match standings.

[royal barnes sass #5792]

I will clarify what I previously stated. Handgun and shotgun may be a different caliber/gauge but must be a 1911 and a '97 or Model 12. We decided before starting our monthly WB match that we would allow the deviation as stated above for an "introductory" with no score against regular categories but general gun configurations would follow the rules.

 

P.S. If you show up and don't have the right gear we'll loan it to you.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I am all for an Open category allowing 1300s, 870s, 37s, 9mm 1911s etc etc. EXCEPT for Glocks. I love my Glocks but the factory barrels are totally incompatible with the lead bullets we use. The polygonal rifling builds up lead and with enuff of it packed in there the gun becomes a grenade. I will not spot, brass shag, or stand on the line with anyone shooting lead in a Glock unless the shooter assures me he has an aftermarket Wilson, Lone Wolf or other aftermarket barrel designed to use lead projectiles. And yes I have seen Glocks grenade. I am allergic to shrapnel.

 

The Open category should be just for fun with no score in the official match standings.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone allowing Glock or anything else that modern in an Open category. Ours is double action Colt, broomhandles..etc...etc ..up untill 1917. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

We are allowing just about anything in Open. Even, so far, Glocks -- much to my dissent. No one has showed up with a glockinspiel so far.

 

If somebody ever does show up with one and sez there is a factory barrel in it -- color me gone, takin' a break, headed to the outhouse...

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

We are allowing just about anything in Open. Even, so far, Glocks -- much to my dissent. No one has showed up with a glockinspiel so far.

 

 

Have not seen a Glock so far. And this new policy has only been discussed/used one time.

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

First, I'm not competitive by any means. I'm just shooting "Mild Bunch" as I call it for fun. I have very small hands and with age can't comfortably rack my husband's 45 anymore, but got a .22 1911 because I thought it was a neat gun and would be fun to shoot. When I got it, I didn't "plan" on shooting WB with it. I just wanted it and had some extra cash so I got it. (Not the first time that has happened.)

 

Two of the clubs I shoot at allow me to shoot it using the WB targets so I can just have FUN. I don't even care about my time other than to be able to tell if I think I'm getting a little better at it just like when I first started SASS. One of the clubs said "no" so I'll only shoot SASS at that local club. At one club I can shoot SASS on Saturday and/or Sunday and then WB or SASS on Monday. In this Texas heat one or two days is about all I can do so SASS on one day, Mild Bunch on Monday. It's all for fun anyway.

 

I think anything should be allowed at local monthly matches especially if we want more people to join. I would never expect it to be allowed at SASS sanctioned or major matches. I think most of us would never expect to be allowed to use unauthorized calibers or guns in major matches anyway. Some of us just want to shoot for fun. You don't even need to record my scores. I can keep them myself, and it shouldn't be a problem if I've paid the regular shooting fees anyway.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy, Plastic guns? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Best

 

CR

[John Boy]

 

Allowed at monthly matches to let people try out Wild Bunch before they buy.

WBAS is a distinct shooting discipline within SASS as CAS is, each with specific and distinct rules and regulations. You don't see new folks coming to CAS matches with 410 SxS shotguns and Glocks do you?

The regulations within each are specific. Accordingly, I am against allowing shooters who do not have the required firearms and accoutrements to co-mingle at WBAS matches with those that do have proper firearms and accoutrements. If they have an interest in this distinct shooting sport and do not have the proper firearms or which don't meet the power factor - they should be spectators only to learn by watching without pulling triggers to preclude those habitually participating in WBAS matches in something called an 'Open Classification' with no scoring

 

When I first wanted to start shooting WB, having many Ithaca 37's, asked if I could shoot the matches with this shotgun instead of a '97 or Model 12. I also had a modern paddle holster that I wanted to use.

Our club TG and WBAS Match director said - NO!

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

WBAS is a distinct shooting discipline within SASS as CAS is, each with specific and distinct rules and regulations. You don't see new folks coming to CAS matches with 410 SxS shotguns and Glocks do you?

The regulations within each are specific. Accordingly, I am against allowing shooters who do not have the required firearms and accoutrements to co-mingle at WBAS matches with those that do have proper firearms and accoutrements. If they have an interest in this distinct shooting sport and do not have the proper firearms or which don't meet the power factor - they should be spectators only to learn by watching without pulling triggers to preclude those habitually participating in WBAS matches in something called an 'Open Classification' with no scoring

 

When I first wanted to start shooting WB, having many Ithaca 37's, asked if I could shoot the matches with this shotgun instead of a '97 or Model 12. I also had a modern paddle holster that I wanted to use.

Our club TG and WBAS Match director said - NO!

 

I tend to agree with John Boy. Wild Bunch and some CAS categories require some commitment, consider Classic Cowboy for instance.

 

I also am troubled by suggestions such as Lorelei Longshot's "I think anything should be allowed at local matches..." Many shooters don't get to shoot anything but local matches and for most of us the local matches comprise the huge majority of our shooting. If someone shows up ready to go, but has an 870 or model 37, I'm sure someone will share their shotgun. Same thing with the big bore rifle until they get their own. I would probably be reluctant to loan a 1911 to someone who doesn't have one unless I believe they have experience with one, a match is not the place to learn to shoot. I just don't think that Wild Bunch or Classic Cowboy rules need to be bent to accommodate whatever someone has in their gun safe. The particularized guns are what these events are about and what draws most of us to them. Just my $.02.

[diablo slim]

I have to agree to disagree.

We have an open category but pistol has to be 1911 in another caliber than 45.

rifle can be any SASS main match rifle

and any pump shotgun without a ribbed barrel.

All the shooters at our last WB match either shot Modern or traditional(no one shot open)

Everyone is bringing the right guns after just a few months of offering an open class.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Nota,

 

I shoot Open at monthlies and use a .38 caliber rifle with nickel ammo to cut my losses on brass.

 

Open shooters get scored at the bottom of the other shooters. I like seeing my scores and don't care about being moved to the bottom.

 

Another lady shooter shot an unapproved pistol in Open to see what she thought about WBAS before investing in another gun. I think having an Open category is a great way to get folks interested who do not have all of the appropriate guns to start with.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Ranger Dunn]

Well all I did was answer the OP's question the best I could, now as to do I agree or not, that is something else. I will say I had all the proper firearms and leather before I ever sent a round down range and for ME that is how I do things. If the club wants to allow open class that is just fine by me, what YOU or anybody else wants to enjoy shooting has nothing to do with my shooting or enjoyment as long as it is all safe.

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

WBAS is a distinct shooting discipline within SASS as CAS is, each with specific and distinct rules and regulations. You don't see new folks coming to CAS matches with 410 SxS shotguns and Glocks do you?

The regulations within each are specific. Accordingly, I am against allowing shooters who do not have the required firearms and accoutrements to co-mingle at WBAS matches with those that do have proper firearms and accoutrements. If they have an interest in this distinct shooting sport and do not have the proper firearms or which don't meet the power factor - they should be spectators only to learn by watching without pulling triggers to preclude those habitually participating in WBAS matches in something called an 'Open Classification' with no scoring

 

When I first wanted to start shooting WB, having many Ithaca 37's, asked if I could shoot the matches with this shotgun instead of a '97 or Model 12. I also had a modern paddle holster that I wanted to use.

Our club TG and WBAS Match director said - NO!

 

 

I tend to agree with John Boy. Wild Bunch and some CAS categories require some commitment, consider Classic Cowboy for instance.

 

I also am troubled by suggestions such as Lorelei Longshot's "I think anything should be allowed at local matches..." Many shooters don't get to shoot anything but local matches and for most of us the local matches comprise the huge majority of our shooting. If someone shows up ready to go, but has an 870 or model 37, I'm sure someone will share their shotgun. Same thing with the big bore rifle until they get their own. I would probably be reluctant to loan a 1911 to someone who doesn't have one unless I believe they have experience with one, a match is not the place to learn to shoot. I just don't think that Wild Bunch or Classic Cowboy rules need to be bent to accommodate whatever someone has in their gun safe. The particularized guns are what these events are about and what draws most of us to them. Just my $.02.

 

I agree with John and Buffalo Dick. WBAS is like SASS in that it has published rules that dictate how these games are played. If someone wants to "get a feel" for WB and does not have the correct equipment, I will be the first to loan that shooter whatever he needs to shoot a match and find out if they really want to play WBAS. I don't think I am special in that regard! The truth is, as folks who play WB by the rules know, shooting a 38 rifle and something less than a 45ACP 1911 really tells you nothing about the game! (It really is NOT Cowboy Action with a 1911.) In addition, I have seen very little fruit produced by allowing an open class. We don't tolerate making fast and loose with SASS Action Shooting rules, why tolerate it for WBAS? I guarantee that you will have some folks who will just continue to shoot outside of the rules, and will never step up to the plate and "gun up" for WBAS.

 

I do see benefit in allowing new, inexperience shooters, latitude (using 22s for example.) as they are getting started - in WB or CAS. However, I also expect to see progress towards the expected goal of full participation and compliance.

 

If you institutionalize an "Open" class, your going to be stuck with it.

 

I am not a great WB shooter, but I like the game, and feel it deserves the same respect for the it's rules as Cowboy Action does.

 

Just my personal opinion. Others are free to do as they wish.....

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

FYI, my home WB club has hosted all of the CA State WBAS Championships. WBAS gun and ammo rules are adhered to at that match.

 

Like I wrote, I shoot Open (.38 Rifle) at monthlies to ensure I lose a minimal amount of brass. I always shoot a .45 caliber rifle at annuals.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS The Outlaws (CAS club) also offers additional non-SASS categories (Plainsman, FCGF, Josie Wales, Tom Horn). Heck, they even offer some categories that aren't in the books, like Senior GF, at EOT.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

We are so starved for any new shooters we will let them shoot whatever they want to, dress however they want to whatever.

 

We will let fat ole men shoot 410 twice rows if'n they want.

 

If someone anyone will just show up and show any willingness or enthusiasm at all to participate then we are gonna do anything and everything we possibly can to accomodate them.

 

In recent years there has been an explosion of 22 1911s. Anyone who wants to run one of those, a 22 levergun and any gauge pump or double is more than welcome in Open. We'll leave the light on for ya.

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

I love everything about Wild Bunch except the narrow seclection of Shotguns and pistol. This is a little off topic, but do you think they will ever allow the 1887 Winchester or some early big bore double action revolvers?

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Just a matter of time. For years they told us the 93/97 and the Model 12 would never be allowed. No more 97s or M12s are being made. The supply is limited and 87s are still in production.

 

The 87 is a natural for WB and easier to stuff 6 rounds in than a stock 97. Nothing funner than blasting and levering away with an 87. I've done it in local WB matches and it is a hoot.

 

Big bore DAs are a natural fit for the game and sooner or later the hidebound will have to accept the fact.

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

Nota John,

Put all of the Modern and Open under the same category; Modern. We only have two categories, WB Traditional & WB Modern. Shooters listed as "Open" were shooting 9mm or 45's with pistols that does not conform to the rules for traditional or if they are shooting with a two hand grip, they should be in Modern also.

 

JSS

I couldn't disagree more. Folks shooting guns or calibers that don't conform to the WB rules should not be allowed to shoot in any category. Are you going to let me shoot my double action .22 and my 870 for score at your monthly SASS shoot? And if you are, do you think I might get the idea that I can do it all the time? How do you think that will end?

 

Life is full of choices and if you choose not to play by the rules of the game, you have the right. But that does not mean that the rules should be changed to suit you. It would be a waste of time anyway; if you don't want to buy the gear and conform to the rules, you don't really want to play the game.

 

I don't know about where you shoot, but at our club there are plenty of folks that will lend you the right guns to try it out and get you started. But you will eventually need to make the commitment.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I have asked to shoot outlaw guns on several occasions and been OKed. I have also seen shooters approved to use otherwise illegal period correct guns and accessories. It has always been a local thing that is pretty much governed by a request to the match director ahead of time, no score is recorded for such shenanigans and I have never heard of one complaint. The whole idea is rare around these parts, more so now than in years past. Two things that stand out was my shooting the little model 1849 .32 pistols in main match and I have seen revolving carbines a time or two, way back. I will bet it is not as unheard of in CAS as some hard core purists would try to use to keep such out of their match. I personally think that the early DA revolvers and the '87WIN would have fit very well into WB. If WB is ever opened to a rotating (elected) committee style of governing there may well be changes to come one day, it sure changed the cowboy side of SASS pretty fast.