Aunt Jen 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Took painless to shoot 1911 indoors today but I was refused. Said u had normal primers in ammo but require clean primers indoors per EPA, though not w rifles. Said I could do it w their ammo, but price too high. So we walked. ????? I normally shoot outdoors. What a mess? Loaded Painless out of wheelchair back into car. ??? Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Dave 972 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Never heard of such a thing, I think they were full of crap and trying to sell you ammo. Sorry that they cast a damper on your outing. Grizz Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Dave 972 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Do you have a friend who might be a uniformed police officer? Have them go in with your gun and ammo and see if they give him the same crap, and if not, then someone needs a good arse chewing. Link to post Share on other sites
Aunt Jen 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Weird. They said EPA. But maybe a CA thing? Iphone Link to post Share on other sites
The Original Lumpy Gritz 7,655 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 That is the "WHY" many ammo makers are making/using NT(non-toxic)labeled ammo. My SIL's dept. had to switch over as per OHSA. EPA is part of this mess to........ Cheers, LG Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Sopris, Regulator, #3290 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The Range is worried about lead vapors. Most of the vapors that enter our body with carcinogenics come from the back of the cartridge. Indoor Ranges in Las Vegas Nevada, having been requiring Lead free ammo/primers since around 2000. The Range employees have to breath that crap day in and day out. I don't like the idea; and some ranges in Las Vegas require frangible ammunition with those lead free primers. Ranges are getting sued by their employees for Cancer outbreaks and though No One has successfully proven they got their Cancer from the indoor range YET, the Ranges are trying to minimize financial exposure. If an employee claims he got sick from his work environment then yes, OSHA and EPA get involved. Not much choice; Comply or go outside. Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Dave 972 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So how the heck do they know, looking at a box of cartridges if they are non toxic? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Sopris, Regulator, #3290 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So how the heck do they know, looking at a box of cartridges if they are non toxic? Presumption of Evidence. If your box of ammo does NOT have the "CLEAN" or "LEAD FREE" wording, it's presumed that it is NOT. Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Phil Peeno #50923 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Lead free primers? Link to post Share on other sites
Church Key, SASS # 33713 266 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 The indoor NRA range in Virginia lets us shoot CAS and Wild Bunch, including shotguns. No black powder allowed; otherwise use what you bring. Link to post Share on other sites
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 6,493 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Would they allow handloads...? What if you took in an empty "clean" primer package...? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Sopris, Regulator, #3290 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Would they allow handloads...? What if you took in an empty "clean" primer package...? I am sure your question is sincere, BUT I have some problems with giving instructions on how to violate a company's policy that might lead to damages later. As remote as it might be, especially in a public forum; I have had enough confrontations in my lifetime already. Link to post Share on other sites
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 6,493 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am sure your question is sincere, BUT I have some problems with giving instructions on how to violate a company's policy that might lead to damages later. As remote as it might be, especially in a public forum; I have had enough confrontations in my lifetime already. Kid, it was sincere. And I'm serious... if I load with "clean" primers and present evidence of such I don't want someone challenging my veracity. I'm considering a similar issue here in California's "lead-free" hunting zones... I've handloaded and sighted in copper and "gilding metal" rounds for hunting... but how the heck is a warden going to know? A magnet sure won't tell 'im anything. That in mind, I intend to carry a package label with me to present if challenged; if THAT doesn't work I will very clearly state my thoughts on the state of the state. I'm beyond weary of the "presumed guilty" mentality we so often face these days. Link to post Share on other sites
Apache Hawk 60642 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 What a bunch of Crap !!! "Hey lady, Have I got a deal for you ! A great deal on a slightly used G.W. Bridge !!!" Come on over dis a way, AJ and Painless. Got a indoor shootin range fer dat heathen smokless 1911 shooters.... Shoot all day, but ya got to buy their targets. Gun shop has to make money some how.... Don't worry, der fairless cheap and dey allow maskin' tape to cover da bullet holes !!! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kid Sopris, Regulator, #3290 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Kid, it was sincere. And I'm serious... if I load with "clean" primers and present evidence of such I don't want someone challenging my veracity. I'm considering a similar issue here in California's "lead-free" hunting zones... I've handloaded and sighted in copper and "gilding metal" rounds for hunting... but how the heck is a warden going to know? A magnet sure won't tell 'im anything. That in mind, I intend to carry a package label with me to present if challenged; if THAT doesn't work I will very clearly state my thoughts on the state of the state. I'm beyond weary of the "presumed guilty" mentality we so often face these days. If I were you, I would look for an email... Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Mike 1,191 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 was it the new Sig you were taking out today? maybe they were jealous you had one. Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Dave 972 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If they can't outlaw the guns, they'll outlaw or regulate the ammo to the point it might as well be the same thing. See the top quote here Link to post Share on other sites
Aunt Jen 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yes. This was my new Sig 1911. We were going to try it out. But that's okay. I don't want lead to hurt anyone. So I'll just go to an outdoor range, like Wes Thompson's out by Piru. Painless and I can make a day of it, take a lunch, etc., when the temperature is okay for him to go. So, no, I still haven't shot it. I'm sure it's great. We will one day when the weather out at Piru is cool enough for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Texas Lizard 1,185 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Took painless to shoot 1911 indoors today but I was refused. Said u had normal primers in ammo but require clean primers indoors per EPA, though not w rifles. Said I could do it w their ammo, but price too high. So we walked. ????? I normally shoot outdoors. What a mess? Loaded Painless out of wheelchair back into car. ??? So what is a clean primer?? Texas Lizard Link to post Share on other sites
Iron Pony 0 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Jen a shop up here called Rileys closed their indoor range after about 3 years because of static they were getting from employee(s) about having to do clean up and wearing tyvec suits/breathers etc. Funny thing was when the then state of the art air handling equipment was installed the air coming out was CLEANER then the air going in. Link to post Share on other sites
Subdeacon Joe 29,514 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So what is a clean primer?? Texas Lizard http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=376261 http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/pdf/msds/msds_w62.pdf http://www.google.es/patents/about?id=WI4WAAAAEBAJ They actually make a lot of sense. Those of us who have experienced elevated blood lead levels mostly have primers to thank for them. Link to post Share on other sites
The Original Lumpy Gritz 7,655 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 N/T primers are also the reason WHY there a alot of sm. pistol sized primer .45 acp cases showing up, instead of the normal LP size. I have no issues with N/T primers, EXCEPT for the price Cheers, LG Link to post Share on other sites
Rye Miles #13621 7,426 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Jen this is gotta be a Cal. thing pushed by the almighty EPA. I work part time at a gun shop/indoor range (Ohio) and we have ...uh...duh...EXHAUST FANS that suck all the crap outta there. That's why I think it's a state mandate and the range is tryin to stay in business. I'm afraid they won't last too long though. BTW, Yes there are lead free primers. Link to post Share on other sites
Aunt Jen 0 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Well, I wis them luck. Yes, exhaust fans seem like a good idea. As a shooter, I don't want to breathe it, either, so maybe outdoor is best? Outdoor is fine with me. I prefer outdoors. The only reason I went sometimes to this indoor one was because it was close. But we'll make a trek to an outdoor one at Piru. Wes Thompson's, I guess. It'll be okay. Link to post Share on other sites
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 0 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Take it for what its worth, I had a blood lead level of 15 before starting at a new local indoor range. After 2 month shooting there, about 3 times a week, I got sick. Asked the doctor to check lead levels and it came back a 41.5 I quit going there and my lead level has dropped back to around a 18. I shot thier range ammo which is full metal jacket. Full metal jacket has an exposed lead base and when the powder burns it vaporizes some of the lead its contacting. They had vents, but they must have not been good enough. Best bet, shoot outdoors. Link to post Share on other sites
Badlands Bob #61228 2,008 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The best indoor ranges have a very expensive system to create a positive air flow down range. It takes very large air handlers and special filters to clean and move this much air. Also rather expensive to set up and operate. Most of the 25 yard indoor ranges I've seen have exhaust fans and they might sweep the floors up at the end of the day. Link to post Share on other sites
Rye Miles #13621 7,426 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The best indoor ranges have a very expensive system to create a positive air flow down range. It takes very large air handlers and special filters to clean and move this much air. Also rather expensive to set up and operate. Most of the 25 yard indoor ranges I've seen have exhaust fans and they might sweep the floors up at the end of the day. Yep the floors are swept every night. I wear a mask (sometimes) when I sweep but the exhaust fans are still on. Sometimes we leave 'em on all night. Last time my lead level was checked it was 21.( 1 year ago) I'm gonna get it checked again here real soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L 609 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Go find an outdoor range... GG ~ Link to post Share on other sites
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L 21 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Took painless to shoot 1911 indoors today but I was refused. Said u had normal primers in ammo but require clean primers indoors per EPA, though not w rifles. Said I could do it w their ammo, but price too high. So we walked. ????? I normally shoot outdoors. What a mess? Loaded Painless out of wheelchair back into car. ??? If ya want lead free primers ya only ogot one choice right now, Fiocchi.... At $58 for 1,500 it works out ta $38.67 per 1K, they are available ONLY for small pistol... AND they are green in color, so if ya use them anyone can tell immediately they are lead-free. JJJ-D Link to post Share on other sites
Swifty Morgan 0 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sorry to hear this Aunt Jen, I have not had this problem yet! Being just down the road from ya I would bet it's commin!!! Frustrating to say the very least! I gotta go check out Piru! I hear good things bout that place, wait a minute... I just gotta get out to any range! Hope you get the chance to give that 1911 a shot! You will love it! Link to post Share on other sites
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