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BJT

What is the call and how do you make it?

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So where would one go to find the compilation of all these ROC determinations?

 

I also agree with BJT about asking the shooter why--there is no way we can be inside someone's head and assign motives to them. I have seen some crazy meltdowns by shooters, beginner to top-gun, and you just never know what's going to happen or why.

Sorry,

 

I missed this.

 

They are sometimes added to to the booklets. However, it has been said by many folks, the rules cannot cover every possible circumstance. If they did, they might look like this. :o:lol:;)

 

Many more are described at the TG Summit. A variety of folks post these on the Wire, Club Websites, or email them to their constituents (as I did with this clarification, see BJT's OP). If your TG is not attending the Summit or, at least, reading the TG Wire, and providing you with this information, you might want to have a talk with them.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I have to agree with Stan and JMF on this--both because awarding a SOG defies common sense and because of the wording of the rule. The parenthetical in the SOG rule quoted starts with "i.e." We all know that is Latin for "that is," and what follows explains or restates the language it follows. So the part of the rule saying a SOG infraction occurs "when a competitor willfully or intentionally disregards the stage instructions ir order to obatain a competitive advantage" is explained to mean "taking the penalty would result in a lower score or faster time." There is absolutely no indication that shooter took the P in order to get a lower score or faster time in this instance, so the SOG rule is inapplicable. If the rule is intended to apply to actions that occur after a shooter has unintentionally earned a P by shooting targets out of order, it needs to be written to say so. After the targets are engaged out of order, no sequence the shooter follows can get the string "back on track" and I fail to see any "spirit of the game" principle that dictates trying to do that which is impossible.

 

Cassalong Hopidy

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Hello again,

 

The possibility of a SOG appears to be intended to prevent the shooter from doing something to gain an UNFAIR advantage.

 

What if there was a difficult sequence and/or hard and easy targets. How do we prevent a shooter from intentionally screwing up the sequence, getting the P, and then dumping on an easy target, without the possibility of a SOG penalty for not doing their best to complete the scenario. On some stages with some shooters, this could be the fastest way to get a good time.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who will act according to her conscience and the ROC clarification in the specific circumstance" Mo

 

Brother King, Allie said it better than I ever could. And, yes my intent is to shoot the stage as fast as I can while following the stage instructions(just like you would). But we(Classic Cowboys) would never dump on a target after earning a "p". But some newer shooters might and if the rules are not enforced, pretty soon there are no rules.

 

Ghost

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I have to agree with Stan and JMF on this--both because awarding a SOG defies common sense and because of the wording of the rule. The parenthetical in the SOG rule quoted starts with "i.e." We all know that is Latin for "that is," and what follows explains or restates the language it follows. So the part of the rule saying a SOG infraction occurs "when a competitor willfully or intentionally disregards the stage instructions ir order to obatain a competitive advantage" is explained to mean "taking the penalty would result in a lower score or faster time." There is absolutely no indication that shooter took the P in order to get a lower score or faster time in this instance, so the SOG rule is inapplicable. If the rule is intended to apply to actions that occur after a shooter has unintentionally earned a P by shooting targets out of order, it needs to be written to say so. After the targets are engaged out of order, no sequence the shooter follows can get the string "back on track" and I fail to see any "spirit of the game" principle that dictates trying to do that which is impossible.

 

Cassalong Hopidy

+1 .... what he said... :FlagAm:

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Just to be argumentative, because I'm good at it......

 

If said shooter shoots the pistols out of order, then dumps all rifle on one target, what say the "No SOG cause shooter unintentionally had the P" crowd?

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My thinkin' goes in a different direction on the SOG earned.. yes to get it ya have to earn it..

 

If a shooter makes an error and earns a "P" so be it.. give it to him...

 

To my thinkin' only... Why award a P and a SOG??

 

If a shooter errors and trys to correct it (you know tries to get back in sequence on the targets).. ok he earned a "P"

 

If a shooter errors and doesn't try to correct.. goes to a dump.. ta heck with the "P"... skip the 10 second penalty... and go straight to the 30 second penalty.. he earned and should be awarded a SOG only.. just 30 second penalty not a 40 second combined penalty..

 

This might cause a shooter to try and get back on track just to earn his "P" only.. and not earn a SOG.. or causing the thought to arise that one should be awarded to him..

 

 

 

Rance <_<

Probably shouldn't be thinkin' about this one :blush:

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Just to be argumentative, because I'm good at it......

 

If said shooter shoots the pistols out of order, then dumps all rifle on one target, what say the "No SOG cause shooter unintentionally had the P" crowd?

nawww... he's a varmint and you know it.. GET A ROPE!

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<snip> After the targets are engaged out of order, no sequence the shooter follows can get the string "back on track" and I fail to see any "spirit of the game" principle that dictates trying to do that which is impossible.

 

Cassalong Hopidy

I take exception with the part in bold. A shooter most certainly CAN get back on track. Let's take the original example. Double tap nevada sweeps of 3 targets. Shooter fires 4, shots 2, 3, and 4 are on incorrect targets. Shots 5-10 could most certainly have been on the correct targets. In a double tap nevada sweep of 3 targets, there is a specific order for all 10 shots. In other words, each shot has a particular target.

 

 

Shots 1 and 2 on target 1. [in this example, only shot 1 was in the right spot.]

Shots 3 and 4 on target 2.

Shots 5 and 6 on target 3. [shooter could have opted to place the 5th and 6th shots on the correct target instead of dumping on the wrong one.]

Shots 7 and 8 on target 2.

Shots 9 and 10 on target 1.

 

 

So, each shot has an attached target. The shooter is responsible for knowing where to place each shot. Doing what the shooter in the original example posted by BJT did is just incorrect, as is the quoted passage above.

 

No, I don't think the shooter should get a SOG. I think the shooter should be educated as to what the proper course of action is in the future. Since SOG is a subjective penalty, it would be wise to not do something that could cause an RO to penalize you with an SOG.

 

Doc

 

 

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nawww... he's a varmint and you know it.. GET A ROPE!

Where's that hangin' tree? Get two ropes and strechum between two horses! Low down dirty varmint! :lol:

 

Ghost :)

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I take exception with the part in bold. A shooter most certainly CAN get back on track. Let's take the original example. Double tap nevada sweeps of 3 targets. Shooter fires 4, shots 2, 3, and 4 are on incorrect targets. Shots 5-10 could most certainly have been on the correct targets. In a double tap nevada sweep of 3 targets, there is a specific order for all 10 shots. In other words, each shot has a particular target.

 

 

Shots 1 and 2 on target 1. [in this example, only shot 1 was in the right spot.]

Shots 3 and 4 on target 2.

Shots 5 and 6 on target 3. [shooter could have opted to place the 5th and 6th shots on the correct target instead of dumping on the wrong one.]

Shots 7 and 8 on target 2.

Shots 9 and 10 on target 1.

 

 

So, each shot has an attached target. The shooter is responsible for knowing where to place each shot. Doing what the shooter in the original example posted by BJT did is just incorrect, as is the quoted passage above.

 

No, I don't think the shooter should get a SOG. I think the shooter should be educated as to what the proper course of action is in the future. Since SOG is a subjective penalty, it would be wise to not do something that could cause an RO to penalize you with an SOG.

 

Doc

 

Doc--maybe you lost me here, but in your "back on track" scenario, the shooter puts shots 5 and 6 on target 3--but he has now put three rounds on target 3 (and will put 3 rounds on target 2 which should have 4 "attached" to it) and that, among other things, makes my point that he cannot finish out in a way that comports with the original double tap Nevada sweep instructions.

 

Cassalong Hopidy

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Doc--maybe you lost me here, but in your "back on track" scenario, the shooter puts shots 5 and 6 on target 3--but he has now put three rounds on target 3 (and will put 3 rounds on target 2 which should have 4 "attached" to it) and that, among other things, makes my point that he cannot finish out in a way that comports with the original double tap Nevada sweep instructions.

 

Cassalong Hopidy

 

 

Prime example of why the shooter shouldn't be given a SOG. Doc, CH and others will fill up a couple more pages on this latest what if debate while the shooter had a few milliseconds to make a decision on how to proceed after earning the P. :blush:

 

Sometimes you can get back on sequence and then there are other times where you cann't. It really boils down to the integrity of the shooter, how sharp he is and how experienced he is with SASS. Just saying.....

 

Blastmaster

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J Mark, so you are saying that if a shooter 'accidentally' (no prior intent) put the first shot of a stage on the wrong target (earning a P), he can dump all remaining rounds for the stage on the appropriate target type for that firearm (to avoid misses) without further penalty?

 

Edited for clarity.

 

Yes.

 

That being said, if a shooter does so, they will need to be aware that the 1st shot brain fart could be interpreted as willful or intentional.

 

again I know the rules committee does not share my interpretation-it is just that they are wrong :D, but since they have the authority they are "right"

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Prime example of why the shooter shouldn't be given a SOG. Doc, CH and others will fill up a couple more pages on this latest what if debate while the shooter had a few milliseconds to make a decision on how to proceed after earning the P. :blush:

 

Sometimes you can get back on sequence and then there are other times where you cann't. It really boils down to the integrity of the shooter, how sharp he is and how experienced he is with SASS. Just saying.....

 

Blastmaster

+1... couldn't agree more. And the yelling and screaming of those who think they can tell you only confuses the issue most of the time. For example, MOVE MOVE MOVE... but the shooter already cocked the hammer. THEN he moves- instead of a P he's now earned a SDQ.

 

At HOW I swept right should have 2x tapped the last target (or started over) but Nevada sweeped. A VERY top shooter (multiple class and world champion) argued that if I hadn't reloaded and shot a jacked round I would NOT have earned a "P". AND HE WASN'T SHOOTING! Hell, even I knew I had the "P", but I didn't want a miss, too, which would have been the correct call. :wacko: If I hadn't reloaded and shot that jacked round by the same reasoning that you would have awarded an SOG to the 'dump' shooter, then I would have INTENDED to save time by not shooting the last round.

 

Yeah, I know- everyone does it. So where's the consistency in your argument?

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Prime example of why the shooter shouldn't be given a SOG. Doc, CH and others will fill up a couple more pages on this latest what if debate while the shooter had a few milliseconds to make a decision on how to proceed after earning the P. :blush:

 

Sometimes you can get back on sequence and then there are other times where you cann't. It really boils down to the integrity of the shooter, how sharp he is and how experienced he is with SASS. Just saying.....

 

Blastmaster

 

Nice try to drag me into a fight. I'm not going there.

 

You can ALWAYS get back on track. Whether the shooter chooses to take the time to figure it out or not is entirely up to the shooter. That is all that I'm saying.

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Nice try to drag me into a fight. I'm not going there.

 

You can ALWAYS get back on track. Whether the shooter chooses to take the time to figure it out or not is entirely up to the shooter. That is all that I'm saying.

 

 

Three post since my last and now this makes the fourth. :lol: Will not be long till my forecast of two pages worth come true. :)

 

No intention on dragging you into a fight Doc.

 

"ALWAYS" is a mighty big word. I suppose (wondering off topic for a moment) a person can 'always' reload a round that he jacked out of rifle, do we give him/her SOG?

 

I admire a person that does attempt to get back on course or does what it takes to reload a round that they jacked out, no matter if it takes twice as long to get it done vs taking the penalty. But I will not add additional penalty (SOG) for either example in this thread.

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J Mark, so you are saying that if a shooter 'accidentally' (no prior intent) put the first shot of a stage on the wrong target (earning a P), he can dump all remaining rounds for the stage on the appropriate target type for that firearm (to avoid misses) without further penalty?

 

Edited for clarity.

 

 

Yes.

 

That being said, if a shooter does so, they will need to be aware that the 1st shot brain fart could be interpreted as willful or intentional.

 

again I know the rules committee does not share my interpretation-it is just that they are wrong :D, but since they have the authority they are "right"

 

 

Interesting, thanks for the reply. Whether that first shot was or was not intentional would seem a moot point to me, as what they did AFTER that demonstrates a clear intent (IMO) to gain an advantage from that point forward given what had happened with the first shot.

 

Oh crap, I crashed my car into a liquor store destroying part of a display of single malt scotch, I might as well throw a couple of undamaged cases into my trunk while I'm here.

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Sorry,

 

I missed this.

 

They are sometimes added to to the booklets. However, it has been said by many folks, the rules cannot cover every possible circumstance. If they did, they might look like this. :o:lol:;)

 

Many more are described at the TG Summit. A variety of folks post these on the Wire, Club Websites, or email them to their constituents (as I did with this clarification, see BJT's OP). If your TG is not attending the Summit or, at least, reading the TG Wire, and providing you with this information, you might want to have a talk with them.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

The TGs of my clubs do a fine job, but your response illustrates the problem--you cannot expect the ROC determinations to be followed in any consistent way until they make it into one of the rulebooks available to everyone (and even then, notsomuch, since you have to be an internet user to have access to the latest rulebook).

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I agree with Mockingbird on this one.

While our TGs generally do a good job, rules that are not made public cannot be enforced.

In law in this country the case law is published so all can be used and reused even bizarrely.

 

If the ROC is going to issue rulings about situations, those rulings MUST be published.

Perhaps not as a part of the mess of rules that we have now;

Shooters handbook, RO1 and RO2 training materials, but rather as a ROC rulings book.

Then they can be had by ALL.

Since TGS and ROC members are not on all posses at all shoots nor is it possible to claim that all TOs have had the opportunity to get updated prior to all matches this makes the current system untenable.

This situation of private or secret rules does not make any sense.

 

My 2 cents worth.

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Interesting, thanks for the reply. Whether that first shot was or was not intentional would seem a moot point to me, as what they did AFTER that demonstrates a clear intent (IMO) to gain an advantage from that point forward given what had happened with the first shot.

 

Oh crap, I crashed my car into a liquor store destroying part of a display of single malt scotch, I might as well throw a couple of undamaged cases into my trunk while I'm here.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: You're equating a shooter getting confused and seeking to mitigate in the most efficient and safest manner to a outright theft of someone else's property?

 

OY!

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Who has done the best job of putting the genie back in the bottle?:

 

1) The shooter who double taps the last six shots?

2) The shooter who shoots target one with the fifth round and does another Nevada with the next pistol?

 

The timer is running, you have five seconds to figure it out before I'm screaming "Shoot something! You've already earned the P!" Seriously, if you can't figure this out in five seconds or less and be able to present your logic for doing so in the same amount of time, they why in the world would we think of adding insult to injury by giving a shooter a SOG for just trying to get to the next gun? Next we will need to define how much time must be spent trying to figure out how best to "correct" a P and grade the shooter on how well he "solved" the problem.

 

The truth is, on a scale of one to ten, my concern over a SOG penalty being assessed following a procedural by the people I have played this game with...approaches zero. It's just fun to bicker with friends about such likely events as the Earth's rotation slowing and suddenly having 25 hour days. I predict that we'd spend an additional hour a day arguing. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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(snip)

The truth is, on a scale of one to ten, my concern over a SOG penalty being assessed following a procedural by the people I have played this game with...approaches zero. It's just fun to bicker with friends about such likely events as the Earth's rotation slowing and suddenly having 25 hour days. I predict that we'd spend an additional hour a day arguing. :D

 

 

Amen... <_<

Wise statement right there :blush:

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Interesting, thanks for the reply. Whether that first shot was or was not intentional would seem a moot point to me, as what they did AFTER that demonstrates a clear intent (IMO) to gain an advantage from that point forward given what had happened with the first shot.

 

Oh crap, I crashed my car into a liquor store destroying part of a display of single malt scotch, I might as well throw a couple of undamaged cases into my trunk while I'm here.

 

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: You're equating a shooter getting confused and seeking to mitigate in the most efficient and safest manner to a outright theft of someone else's property?

 

OY!

 

Admittedly a ridiculous analogy, but let me walk thru it.

 

-- Shooter puts first round of a stage on the wrong pistol target.

-- Driver drives thru the plate glass window of a liquor store.

In both cases this is not a proper action, there are consequences. The shooter earns a Procedural, the driver likely a ticket for careless driving.

 

Whether accidental or intentional, in both cases there are consequences.

 

Having received penalties for their initial actions, are they completely relieved of responsibility for what they do next?

 

-- Rather than try to complete the stage as written, shooter dumps all remaining rounds on the biggest closest target for the gun he is shooting.

-- Driver grabs a few cases of single malt scotch and throws them in the trunk.

 

As Brother King pointed out, the driver is stealing someone else's property.

The shooter, IMO, by taking the fastest easiest way out after committing the P on the first shot, is taking an unfair advantage on each and every shooter that tried to shoot the stage as it was written.

 

-- The driver has now also committed theft, maybe felony theft depending on the scotch. :D

-- The shooter, IMO and I believe backed up by Snakebites ruling, deserves an SOG.

 

As Buck said, the likelihood of such a scenario coming up are very slim. Folks may have a brain fart on one pistol and might just dump the rest of that pistol in the confusion of how to make it right. This is gray area in my mind. Many will do their best to return to sequence on that same gun. To continue dumping on the next gun demonstrates, IMO, a willful choice to take a competitive advantage over following the prescribed sequence.

 

I find it hard to believe that someone could be so flustered by earning a P on the first shot of a stage that they would not be able to at least attempt to get back on track, yet they have the clarity of mind to dump each remaining round on the correct target type for that firearm to avoid misses being called.

 

Grizz

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What is all this, you must "get back on track" after incurring a P or you're cheating. This game has never been played like that. Shooter is under no prior restraint to shoot it anyway but how he wants to after a P. All bets are off. Like I said before, around here just as soon as the shooter blunders into P land one or all of the rest of us on the posse will say "shoot it any way you want to now".

 

Thus has it ever been, thus let it ever be.

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Lone Dog, I certainly do not dispute that is how it is done at the clubs that you shoot at.

 

That has not been my experience though.

 

I guess maybe it varies club to club, or maybe region to region, just as long as it doesn't vary posse to posse in the same match.

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Lone Dog, I certainly do not dispute that is how it is done at the clubs that you shoot at.

 

That has not been my experience though.

 

I guess maybe it varies club to club, or maybe region to region, just as long as it doesn't vary posse to posse in the same match.

 

 

Grizz,

 

But it probably varies (the call) from posse to posse, especially at larger matches where RO's from different club/regions are sharing the work and making the calls. Probably varies within the posse as well, depending on which TO/RO/counter/shooter combo you have going on.

 

Are you saying 'every' RO at your club calls it the same way? I would say at the clubs I shoot at, I haven't seen any RO give a SOG to a shooter that didn't get back on sequence after earning a P, so I guess they are consistant with not calling the SOG after a P was earned. So if there were RO's frome both your and my clubs at the same match, then there would be inconsistant calls. Just saying.

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Hello,

 

Since the Range Officer Committee (ROC) was assigned (by the Wild Bunch) with the task of writing and clarifying the rules, without creating a volume like this, I have taken that as a sign their words carry weight and we should attempt to heed them and educate others about them.

 

I find the posts here that imply this interpretation of a SOG infraction will not be followed, to be a sign of disrespect for the ROC. :(

 

If they had said that a P was the only penalty in the situation of the OP or that previous thread, I would have gone with that too. However, this is not about me or you or what we prefer, it is about following the rules as written or clarified by the ROC.

 

No matter how inconsistently it has been done in the past or what we prefer, these clarifications are intended to ensure that we move forward with the same expectations. This clarification may be added to one of the "rule booklets" at the next update. I think that would be a good idea; but, it is not my decision to make.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Grizz,

 

But it probably varies (the call) from posse to posse, especially at larger matches where RO's from different club/regions are sharing the work and making the calls. Probably varies within the posse as well, depending on which TO/RO/counter/shooter combo you have going on.

 

Are you saying 'every' RO at your club calls it the same way? I would say at the clubs I shoot at, I haven't seen any RO give a SOG to a shooter that didn't get back on sequence after earning a P, so I guess they are consistant with not calling the SOG after a P was earned. So if there were RO's frome both your and my clubs at the same match, then there would be inconsistant calls. Just saying.

 

A valid point to be sure. I hate it when I just wind up reinforcing Creekers points! :D :D

 

Given the very small number of SOGs that are awarded, I think the problem is not a big one, maybe no even worth arguing over. But we both pointed out, a rule not consistently enforced within the same match is problematic.

 

The RO Committee has issued an official ruling on the subject, including wording to the effect of "Earning a P does not release the shooter from attempting to finish the stage correctly." Many seem to not agree with it, but that is the ruling. Individual clubs, as always have the option to selectively enforce all SASS rules at non sanctioned matches.

 

I guess where I have wound up is this...

if it's one or two rounds, benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter, no call

if it's more than a few rounds on the same gun, ask the shooter his intent.

if shooter continues to just dump on the following guns, SOG

 

There is still some amount of subjectivity with that, but in my mind less that there was before.

 

Happy trails and safe shooting to you all.

Grizz

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Allie Mo.. (no E) :)

 

I can see where the WB has rules for a reason..

 

A fellow cowpoke I shoot with, said with his post on this ol' wire

That at his local club whenever the sequence of hitting targets are messed up

and they've earned their "P" that it's laughed about and yelled out "FREE STYLE!!"...

 

Yes they do that at my local club.. same club he's talkin' about..

I can go along with that I guess.. cuz that's the way they do it..

 

I, myself, try to get back as close as I can to the shooting order..

 

I always wonder to myself when this is done.. Free Style!!

 

How many new shooters that don't know or study the rules..

will someday go to a big match

and wonder why they got a "P" and a SOG?? Hey that's the way we do it at home!! :wacko:

 

Rance <_<

Yeah.. still thinkin' it ain't right :blush:

Could create bad habits :wacko:

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CR, The real issue I have with getting a P and SOG is why did I get a SOG.

And how was I supposed to know I would get one and should I have done differently.

 

This comes back to the Private or Secret set of rules/rulings that the ROC issues.

 

We, the non-ROC and non-TGs, need access to these rulings

otherwise these rulings being secret make it impossible to have consistent calls.

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CR, The real issue I have with getting a P and SOG is why did I get a SOG.

And how was I supposed to know I would get one and should I have done differently.

 

This comes back to the Private or Secret set of rules/rulings that the ROC issues.

 

We, the non-ROC and non-TGs, need access to these rulings

otherwise these rulings being secret make it impossible to have consistent calls.

Hello!

 

Do you read the Wire? The ruling was posted here. How is that secret. I expect this SOG clarification will be stated at the TG Summit, posted on the TG Wire, and (possibly) listed in one of our booklets. How is that secret? :unsure:

 

Let me remind you all who do not wish to adhere to these clarifications because they are not in a "rule" booklet of the duties of YOUR TGs. They are expected to read the TG Wire and keep current on the rules and clarifications. The following are the official expectations, from the SASS Website.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"A Territorial Governor is:

 

A life member of SASS

 

Appointed/elected by the SASS affiliated club members he or she represents

 

The affiliated club's official representative at SASS Territorial Governor meetings

 

Committed to serving the interests of his or her club consistent with the promulgation and preservation of Cowboy Action Shooting and "the Spirit of the Game."

 

RO II Certified.

 

Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times.

 

Role Summary

 

Territorial Governor is the elected/appointed representative of his or her SASS affiliated club. The Territorial Governor's term of office expires each December 31st. There is no limit to the number of terms one individual may serve.

 

The Territorial Governor not only represents his constituents to the national body, but also represents the national body to the membership. As with any good politician, the Governor may have personal reservations regarding a position adopted by the Governors, but is always in a position to support and defend "the party line".

 

The SASS Board of Directors recognizes the Territorial Governors must be in a position of more than mere advisors for this vision to work.

 

While the SASS Administrative Office and the SASS Corporate Officers have their roles and responsibilities and are chartered with making the decisions necessary to run the company, those issues, policies, and decisions that directly impact the rules of the Cowboy Action Shooting? game will be voted upon by the Territorial Governors.

 

Questions and issues may originate anywhere, but once they are forwarded to SASS Headquarters, the SASS national organization will frame the questions for the Governors, collect the Governor responses, and construct the proposed revised rules or policies. These proposed revisions will then be reviewed and approved by the Governors.

 

While many of the Territorial Governor votes will be at the national and regional match meetings chaired by the Wild Bunch, the Territorial Bulletin will generally be used to set the agendas and often used to distribute voting issues. Instructions will be provided in the Bulletin describing the response process.

 

 

Specific Duties

 

Territorial Governors gather comments, criticisms, needs, suggestions, and proposed rule changes, and communicate these to the SASS Board of Directors

 

Maintain current knowledge regarding Cowboy Action Shooting and SASS, its history, philosophy, purpose, presence, direction, and Spirit of the Game

 

Communicate the Cowboy Action Shooting story locally/regionally to further the growth of the game

 

Represent and support SASS, its philosophy, and its purpose to club members

 

Network with other clubs and Territorial Governors."

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Hacker...

Shooters Handbook...

page 2

Everybody gets to read this.. :)

It's not hidden from them.. :wacko:

Maybe they interprete it differently.. :blink:

but this is where consistent calls must be made

so when you go to a major event.. it's the same rules..

I agree.. this doesn't get called much... but interesting topic..

 

 

SPIRIT OF THE GAME

 

As the game of Cowboy Action Shooting™ has evolved, our members have developed

and adopted an attitude towards their participation we call “The Spirit of the Game.”

Competing in The Spirit of the Game means you fully participate in what the competition

asks. You do not look for ways to create an advantage out of what is or is not stated as a rule or shooting procedure.

Some folks would call The Spirit of the Game nothing more than good sportsmanship.

Whatever you call it, if you don’t have it, Cowboy Action Shooting™ is not

your game.

A “spirit of the game” infraction occurs when a competitor willfully or intentionally

disregards the stage instructions in order to obtain a competitive advantage (i.e., taking the penalty would result in a lower score or faster time than following the instructions) and is not assessed simply because a competitor “makes a mistake.” In such a case, in addition to any penalties for misses, a 30-second failure to engage/Spirit of the Game penalty is assessed.

Shooting ammunition that does not meet the power factor or minimum velocity is also a

“spirit of the game” infraction. Two “spirit of the game” penalties within a match will result in a Match Disqualification.

 

Rance <_<

 

Mistakes in shooting order.. I try to correct so I only incur a "P"

If I dump and do not try to get back in sequence to where I'm suppose to be shootin'..

shame on me

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The ruling fits what I understood, at least to some extent. But I've seen the "free style" once in a while.

 

I've thought of doing it, but I don't remember ever doing it. Instead (rather than a dump), I try to shoot something similar to the stated instruction. So for a double tap, Nevada sweep, I just start double-tapping targets until I run out. Now I may not start on the correct target and most likely won't finish on the correct target, but there will not be any real advantage.

 

Often folks will lose track of what target they are supposed to shoot next, but such additional mistakes almost never result in an "advantage."

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So, if the scenerio calls for two seperate sweeps starting on the left for total of 10 with rifle, and the shooter shoots a Nevada Sweep starting on the left but says awe sh$t after shot 6 hits R4 by mistake and continues with the Nevada to finish out, he should get a P for not starting shot 6-10 from the left 'plus' a SOG for continuing the nevada sweep for an unfair advantage? The awe sh$t tells everyone he was aware of his mistake after 6rounds and elected to continue, rather than stop, aim at R2 and finish up the original sweep from the left. Let us add a miss some where within the sequence. Nice, that is what the RC has clarified to do.

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Hello!

 

Do you read the Wire? The ruling was posted here. How is that secret. I expect this SOG clarification will be stated at the TG Summit, posted on the TG Wire, and (possibly) listed in one of our booklets. How is that secret? :unsure:

 

Let me remind you all who do not wish to adhere to these clarifications because they are not in a "rule" booklet of the duties of YOUR TGs. They are expected to read the TG Wire and keep current on the rules and clarifications. The following are the official expectations, from the SASS Website.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"A Territorial Governor is:

 

A life member of SASS

 

Appointed/elected by the SASS affiliated club members he or she represents

 

The affiliated club's official representative at SASS Territorial Governor meetings

 

Committed to serving the interests of his or her club consistent with the promulgation and preservation of Cowboy Action Shooting and "the Spirit of the Game."

 

RO II Certified.

 

Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times.

 

Role Summary

 

Territorial Governor is the elected/appointed representative of his or her SASS affiliated club. The Territorial Governor's term of office expires each December 31st. There is no limit to the number of terms one individual may serve.

 

The Territorial Governor not only represents his constituents to the national body, but also represents the national body to the membership. As with any good politician, the Governor may have personal reservations regarding a position adopted by the Governors, but is always in a position to support and defend "the party line".

 

The SASS Board of Directors recognizes the Territorial Governors must be in a position of more than mere advisors for this vision to work.

 

While the SASS Administrative Office and the SASS Corporate Officers have their roles and responsibilities and are chartered with making the decisions necessary to run the company, those issues, policies, and decisions that directly impact the rules of the Cowboy Action Shooting? game will be voted upon by the Territorial Governors.

 

Questions and issues may originate anywhere, but once they are forwarded to SASS Headquarters, the SASS national organization will frame the questions for the Governors, collect the Governor responses, and construct the proposed revised rules or policies. These proposed revisions will then be reviewed and approved by the Governors.

 

While many of the Territorial Governor votes will be at the national and regional match meetings chaired by the Wild Bunch, the Territorial Bulletin will generally be used to set the agendas and often used to distribute voting issues. Instructions will be provided in the Bulletin describing the response process.

 

 

Specific Duties

 

Territorial Governors gather comments, criticisms, needs, suggestions, and proposed rule changes, and communicate these to the SASS Board of Directors

 

Maintain current knowledge regarding Cowboy Action Shooting and SASS, its history, philosophy, purpose, presence, direction, and Spirit of the Game

 

Communicate the Cowboy Action Shooting story locally/regionally to further the growth of the game

 

Represent and support SASS, its philosophy, and its purpose to club members

 

Network with other clubs and Territorial Governors."

 

Sorry, but your take on this is completely out of touch with reality. That you think the "rule" booklet is a poor substitute for having someone monitor the SASS TG Wire constantly ignores the fact that a very small portion of cowboy shooters (and, I bet, TGs) actually use the Wire. You can quote the entire explanation of what a TG is and never get to the part you think you've found, nor should you. The TGs, like the vast majority of the infrastructure of cowboy action shooting, are volunteers. They are not obligated (or in many cases even capable, if not on the internet daily which, believe it or not, is true of many people) to be a conduit of rulings to their clubs, although I'm sure some serve that role willingly.

 

That some ROC determination (even an "OFFICIAL ruling") was posted somewhere on one of the SASS wire bulletin boards, or even re-posted by you on this thread, is nowhere close to a reliable way of issuing rule interpretations that SASS or the ROC want to be followed uniformly. There are hundreds (thousands, I suppose, if you're willing to go enough pages deep) of topics on the Wire and the notion that everyone is aware of the content of all of them is silly.

 

There are pinned topics, but none of them these rulings--that would be a good start. And, once a ruling is "OFFICIAL"--is it just sitting on the secret TG Wire? If so, why?

 

The picture you keep linking is cute, and we get your point, but it would not be that bad. A good project would be to merge the existing rule books into a single book, with annotations for the "OFFICIAL rulings" of the ROC. Right now the set of books is growing like a city without zoning. And before someone gripes about having to do it--it isn't that hard. If nobody is willing to do it but they want it done, I would do it for them.

 

It obviously isn't limited to this particular, apparently somewhat controversial, example of interpeting the SOG--it is about a better process and foundation for uniformity.

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