Errol Plain Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Can you shoot cap n ball revolvers in the Frontier Cartridge categories? I know it is Frontier "CARTRIDGE" but I was thinking these cats were aimed primarily at BP shooters. The rules say something along the lines of any SASS legal revolvers and to my way of thinking that includes the percussion pistols. Just wondering if I am off base. TIA Here is the quote from the Handbook: FRONTIER CARTRIDGE • Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 YES. Percussion revolvers are legal in ALL categories. FRONTIER CARTRIDGE• Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You got it right - perfectly acceptable. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Cap and ball are legal in FC and FCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Morgan Rum, SASS #6859 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You can shoot cap & ball revolvers in any category, even Classic Cowboy if they are .40 caliber or larger. The only exception I am aware of would be Wild bunch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Plain Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Oh Boy! FCG with ROA's! That oughta complicate the heck out of my life !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden A. Grudge Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You can shoot cap & ball revolvers in any category, even Classic Cowboy if they are .40 caliber or larger. The only exception I am aware of would be Wild bunch) PG 15 of the handbook under Classic Cowboy • Revolver calibers: .40 caliber rimmed cartridges or larger—revolvers and rifle Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball. So you can even shoot your .36 cap and ball in classic as long as your rifle meets the .40 or higher requirement. I was actually going to do this based on teh fact that I have a new rifle and as of yet no black powder rounds for the rifle or shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You can shoot cap & ball revolvers in any category, even Classic Cowboy if they are .40 caliber or larger. The only exception I am aware of would be Wild bunch) Correction needs to be made here: Classic Cowboy Revolver calibers: .40 caliber rimmed cartridges or larger—revolvers and rifle Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball. Copyright © Single Action Shooting Society, Inc 2011 Seventeenth Edition Page 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yup, if I ever choose to wear enough required items, I might shoot CC with a .45 Ruger and a .36 Pocket Navy, just to wind folks up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Morgan Rum, SASS #6859 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Correction needs to be made here: Classic Cowboy Revolver calibers: .40 caliber rimmed cartridges or larger—revolvers and rifle Examples include, but are not limited to, .38-40, .44 Special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag., .44-40, .45 Schofield, .45 Colt or .36 caliber or larger cap and ball. Copyright © Single Action Shooting Society, Inc 2011 Seventeenth Edition Page 17 That's what I get for answering without actually looking at the handbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 This has brought up another interesting scenario in my mind, what little of it is left. Since the .32 caliber Colt cap and ball pistols are not legal for use in Frontiersman, they should be legal for use in Frontier Cartridge since it allows .32 as a legal caliber, YES? What other reasons would one elect to use for shooting cap and ball in Frontier Cartridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fink, SASS #29047 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Slowhand Bob: They're not .32's, they're .31's. Not legal main match revolvers. You also might have trouble gettin' the 1 CC minimum powder charge in the chambers. Regards, Mike (the) Fink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Bob, git ya a brace of Pocket Navy or Pocket Police pistols. .36 in the same frame as the '49 They ARE legal, and yes, will hold 1CC+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Mike, I would not want to stake my mine claim on them being legal since the interpretation would require a stretch. If it were deemed that the caliber could be equal to cartridge calibers due to it being a cartridge cat then the 32 would work since these were designated 31s but are actually equal in caliber to the modern 32 cartridge bullets. Same difference as calling cap and ball Army revolvers .44, when they are actually 45cal bullets. Someone recently posted the black powder capacity of the 31 c&b revolvers but I am not sure if it exceeded the 1cc or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 There is no 1cc rule, there is only a smoke equivalency requirement. Some of the smokier subs can match the smoke from 1cc of Goex with a smaller amount of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ok, my question is why would you shoot cap and ball in frontier cartridge categories instead of just frontiersman? Only thing I can see is if you were at a club that recognizes FCGF and you wanted to use c&b for some reason.... or is there something I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ok, my question is why would you shoot cap and ball in frontier cartridge categories instead of just frontiersman? Only thing I can see is if you were at a club that recognizes FCGF and you wanted to use c&b for some reason.... or is there something I'm missing? Depending on his long guns, he may not be able to shoot in Frontiersman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Depending on his long guns, he may not be able to shoot in Frontiersman. Long gun requirements are the same for both, only difference is type of revolvers. FRONTIER CARTRIDGE• Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. • Must use a side-by-side or lever action shotgun in the main match stages. • Any SASS–legal pistol caliber rifle is acceptable. FRONTIERSMAN • Any Main Match percussion revolver with non-adjustable sights (Note exceptions listed re: dovetailed sights). (Exception: The 1873 Uberti percussion revolver is not allowed. ) • Must use a side-by-side or lever action shotgun in the main match stages. • Any SASS–legal pistol caliber rifle is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Ok, my question is why would you shoot cap and ball in frontier cartridge categories instead of just frontiersman? Only thing I can see is if you were at a club that recognizes FCGF and you wanted to use c&b for some reason.... or is there something I'm missing? Frontiersman is a "Duelist-style" category. Frontier Cartridge is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Also, some people(me included) see very little point in shooting a category all alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 OR BECAUSE ,,,,, like in the olden days a man might have only one cartridge gun ,,,,,,,, but could also call to service a perfectly good C&B gun should the need arrise... Just because the Cartridge Pistol became availible,don't mean Folks tossed out their Ole Relieble Pistol ..... For many years both arms saw use side by side .... So WHY not would be the better question !!!! Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Haller Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Howdy! I did just this a few weeks back at Comancheria Days, the Texas state shoot! I signed up for Ladies Frontier Cartridge Duelist, planning to shoot my usually cartridge guns, but then got the notion to shoot my cap and ball '58 Remingtons and my Henry in 44-40, along with my 10g SXS. It was a hoot! I was slower than molassas in January, but shot clean, and you should have seen the look on the other Frontiersmen's faces when they saw their first ever Ladies Frontiersman! I thought about officially switching catagories to Ladies Frontiersman, but since I would be the ONLY entrant in either one, I just left it as is. (I did check the rule book to make sure I could indeed shoot cap and ball in FCD, before I went to the match.) As for why one would do this, why not?! It was a personnel challenge to shoot those pistols, rifle and shotgun. It was very period correct for Texas, as a good deal of Texas's 'wild west' period was between 1840-1865; an era of cap and ball pistols. And it was just plain fun and exciting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 OR BECAUSE ,,,,, like in the olden days a man might have only one cartridge gun ,,,,,,,, but could also call to service a perfectly good C&B gun should the need arrise... Just because the Cartridge Pistol became availible,don't mean Folks tossed out their Ole Relieble Pistol ..... For many years both arms saw use side by side .... So WHY not would be the better question !!!! Jabez Cowboy Well after the cartridge guns became available, the C&B and other percussion and even flinters certainly didn't vanish. Even into the early 20th century it wasn't at all unusual for poor folks to fill the pot or protect the homestead with Grandpa's Kentucky rifle or Uncle Joe's 51 Navy.... leastways that's what I had in mind shooting Duelist, using a .45 Colt revolver with smokeless and a Pocket Navy .36 C&B with BP Because I can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Also, some people(me included) see very little point in shooting a category all alone. That makes sense. I hate being the only one or one of only a few in a category. A little competition makes things more interesting. I hope I didn't give the impression that I have an issue with someone shooting c&b in frontier cartridge, cause I certainly don't, I was just curious as to why one would do it. Now I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fink, SASS #29047 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Careful Buffy, your lawyer is showing. Regards, M F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 PB, before we go away, lets play what if. Its a state level or above match and you get the call to make an interpretation on the premise I proposed above, how would you call it? Shooter signs up for Frontier Cartridge, which allows .32 caliber, but is actually using .31 caliber cap & ball pistols,which are technically .32 caliber. Will the pistols have to meet the minimum caliber requirement for the Frontier Cartridge Category, .32, that they will be used in or would the Frontiersman Category minimum caliber requirement, .36, follow the guns over into the cartridge cat? I promise that I am not baiting for an argument here, as this is far to technical and confusing for my mind to get around either way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Percussion revolvers in .32 caliber are NOT LEGAL in any category. If using .32cal centerfire conversion cylinders, the ammo would have to meet the BP "smoke" standard (in a BP category)... the ammunition would be required to meet the MinVel/PF factors (400fps/60pf) if used in a "smokeless" category. REVOLVER CALIBERS• Must be centerfire calibers of at least .32 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber. • Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt). • Standard velocity .22 caliber rimfire ammunition is allowed within the Buckaroo Category only. • Although the .32 caliber revolvers and .36 caliber cap and ball revolvers are legal, they may not be powerful enough to handle all reactive targets. SHB p.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Oh Boy! FCG with ROA's! That oughta complicate the heck out of my life !!! You don't know what life is until you shoot full house loads in ROA FCG style....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Ok, my question is why would you shoot cap and ball in frontier cartridge categories instead of just frontiersman? Only thing I can see is if you were at a club that recognizes FCGF and you wanted to use c&b for some reason.... or is there something I'm missing? An example. Our club president, Tightwad Swede, shoots cap and ball occasionally but is unable, due to an injury, to shoot them duelist. A cap and ball shot 2 handed places the shooter in the FC category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Good discussion !!! Have a great day ALL !!!! Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Also, some people(me included) see very little point in shooting a category all alone. Me, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 As historically accurate as the 1849 Colt would be, it would be a poor choice even if it were allowed. Not enough power to knock the dust off a knock-down. Only five chambers would also be a challenge. Some replicas have devices to set the hammer down on a pin (or notch like the small Remington) but this is not safe IMHO. I have looked at getting some C&B shortguns. I have worn out several before ever hearing of CAS. I like the 1862 Colt but it only holds five rounds. Looks like Navy's for me at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Tom, unless you much prefer the Army grip it is possible to get the Navy grip and look in .44 caliber from Pietta. Not exactly historically correct but it does fill in a gap that old Samuel missed, guys with short fingers who want to leave big holes where they shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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