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Frenchy Cannuck

Relaoding question

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I found the load on the hogdon site, so I got no real problems with that. The issue comes from the fact that I load .38spl at OAL of 1.53" which means that I crimp below the groove just above the lube line.

What I'm finding is that I'm not getting very much power. I'm wondering it the extra space in the brass is the cause. Should I go the Max recommended load or should I seat the bullet deeper in the brass. My 92 loves OAL at 1.53" and I kind of hate to change that if I don't have to.

What do you all think? :unsure:

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Is your problem irregular ignition (ie squib) or erratic feet per second on crono or what? If so could be the powder you are using in a larger case volume. What powder and charge are you using?

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Frenchy, before gettin my spur marlins I used to do the almost the same thing, but crimped in the wax groove. I never noticed any power differences. Did you change powders? perhaps you're just experiencing the differnces between loads?

 

Cheyenne, see ya soon, Culpepper :lol:

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I found the load on the hogdon site, so I got no real problems with that. The issue comes from the fact that I load .38spl at OAL of 1.53" which means that I crimp below the groove just above the lube line.

What I'm finding is that I'm not getting very much power. I'm wondering it the extra space in the brass is the cause. Should I go the Max recommended load or should I seat the bullet deeper in the brass. My 92 loves OAL at 1.53" and I kind of hate to change that if I don't have to.

What do you all think? :unsure:

You're an astute shooter. By loading the bullet beyond the crimp groove, you've gone outside the parameters of the loading tables for that bullet and powder charge. As you've surmised, seating the bullet to that length leaves more space in the case, which has an affect on combustion, resulting in less power. In other words, the more space in the case, the less power you have. The flip side is if you have too little space, excess and unsafe pressures may result.

 

If you have access to a chronograph, try increasing your powder charge incrementally until you achieve the FPS of your desired load. If not, the easiest thing to do is load your rounds to mid-range for your bullet and powder combination. That should give you enough leeway to avoid squibs or overloads.

 

Good luck!

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Howdy, Pard,

The other problem that could be affecting your load performance is that the crimp is either insufficient or because you are not crimping into a crimp groove, the crimp is not gripping the bullet. The extra combustion space is also a factor.

 

You could experience significant ignition delay, which could result in a bullet lodged in the barrel of your rifle, or worse...an overpressure condition in your pistols where the bullet jumps from the case into the forcing cone, with the barrel/cylinder gap blocked! The resulting overpressure could wreck the gun!

 

I would certainly recommend finding a bullet that can be crimped either into a crimp groove or at least into the grease groove.

 

Ride careful, Pard! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedome everywhere! God Bless America! :FlagAm:

 

Your Pard,

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I found the load on the hogdon site, so I got no real problems with that. The issue comes from the fact that I load .38spl at OAL of 1.53" which means that I crimp below the groove just above the lube line.

What I'm finding is that I'm not getting very much power. I'm wondering it the extra space in the brass is the cause. Should I go the Max recommended load or should I seat the bullet deeper in the brass. My 92 loves OAL at 1.53" and I kind of hate to change that if I don't have to.

What do you all think? :unsure:

Go to a .357 case, load for that case, and seat at 1.53" .

I use a .357 case at 1.52 and it's got plenty of punch, but I load a BP sub and just fill it up! When I load smokeless I load to the midlle of the min-max load.

 

JJJ-

:ph34r::ph34r:

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Guest diablo slim shootist

Not enough info for a good answer-what powder- what size bullet- Ect.

I shoot Tightgroup and never have any power problems with my 38s

I load a small charge at 1.53 and my Marlin runs them fine.

If you are getting low or erratic shots I would check your powder

measure and weigh your charges a little more often to see if they vary ;)

P.S I use a lee factory crimp too-maybe your crimp is not

tight enough ,that has a big effect on velocity

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Are you trying to load as lite as possible?

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My goal isn't a light load, as matter of fact I prefer having some recoil, it just feels right. I would think that getting 800 to 900 FPS would be great. Interestingly my buddy shot the same rounds out of his 1875 Outlaw 71/2" barrel and got better speed I shoot out of Ruger NM Vaqueros 45/8" barrels. I do understand that the longer barrel has an effect here but still.

I load 158gr RNFP bullets over 3.8gr Trailboss, according to the Hogdon site the max load should be 4.2gr Trailboss, what Hogdon doesn't do is factor in the OAL, I've seen some mannual that do, I don't know which ones though.

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Frenchy, I run a TIGHT crimp, (I can ID my cases after I shoot them, :lol:

 

yu shooting Palerider, or JW for the bp shoot? <_<

 

C :) Coolpeppah

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Many people think they need to use a crimp groove in order to get a crimp on a bullet and that is not so with lead. A 3 die set can produce a proper crimp and some add a factory crimp die expressly for that purpose. If you take a known load that gives you 800 fps or so, a little stretching of the OAL would not matter that much. Your mileage may vary if shooting a pooch to begin with.

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Many people think they need to use a crimp groove in order to get a crimp on a bullet and that is not so with lead. A 3 die set can produce a proper crimp and some add a factory crimp die expressly for that purpose. If you take a known load that gives you 800 fps or so, a little stretching of the OAL would not matter that much. Your mileage may vary if shooting a pooch to begin with.

 

What is a "Pooch"?

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My goal isn't a light load, as matter of fact I prefer having some recoil, it just feels right....

 

Then I would suspect more of a crimp is need....

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Could be crimp.

 

But review the Hodgdon data for both the 38 Special and the 357 Magnum. For Trail Boss does some rather strange things between the two. The same powder load gives slightly higher presser in the larger 357 Mag case. Very unusual since PV=NRT

(Pressure is usually inversely related to volume - or larger volume normally gives lower pressure, but not in this rare case.

 

Since you are using a magnum handgun and rifle, you should have not problem going to the max 38 Special or 357 Mag loads listed. Notice that none of the listed pressure are that high for a Magnum.

 

When I shoot rifles that need longer length, I seat at the top of the lube groove and have no problems. But I load the pistol rounds as standard 38 Specials.

 

And two inches longer pistol barrel should give about 100 fps more velocity as a "general" rule.

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Frenchy, I run a TIGHT crimp, (I can ID my cases after I shoot them, :lol:

 

yu shooting Palerider, or JW for the bp shoot? <_<

 

C :) Coolpeppah

 

 

You’re think’in Frenchy Yukon ya big galoot. :lol:

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Frenchy find a flat parallel surface, crimp either before or after the crimp groove. Make 2 or 3 in each spot see how they feel, adjust as necessary, if the sky falls, duck ^_^

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After reading all of your posts and exchanging with a couple of you pards, I decided to check my scale, it was bought used and never really checked. Well I got a new scale and turnd out that my 3.8gr load was actually 2gr. And Now You know the REST of the story.

 

Thanks y'all for the help.

 

P.S. Happy Mothers day to all you beautiful ladies without whom we wouldn't be fathers!!!

 

Frenchy

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Guest Texas Jack Black

A good reloading book will help you keep all your fingers and maybe your life. Reading one would have told you to always check your equipment {reloading scale} Reloading can be fun just read.

 

 

T J B

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A good reloading book will help you keep all your fingers and maybe your life. Reading one would have told you to always check your equipment {reloading scale} Reloading can be fun just read.

 

 

T J B

 

I have to admit I'm a little embarrassed. But I'm learning! :blush:

 

Frenchy

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I have to admit I'm a little embarrassed. But I'm learning! :blush:

 

Frenchy

 

Don't beat yourself up; it can happen to anybody! I've reloaded for a looong time and once I got bit by the very same bug that got you! Loaded some 308. All the charges were hand weighed and when I shot them; bang, pow, BOOM, pop they went! And if that wasn't enough of a clue, the chronograph should have been, reading velocities from 1700 to 2200fps. I say should have been bcause a few days later, I loaded up another batch of 8mm without a THOUGHT....until I noticed just prior to seating the bullets that every case had a different powder level. Re-weighed the charges, got a different answer. Stopped loading and got a set of check weights. (never bothered with them before) That 25 year old scale (which I bought new) was probably wore out. Got me another scale and then I had to look at my ammo closet and wonder how many of the thousands of rounds I had on hand were loaded on that scale and just WHEN did it go bad... :blink::wacko:

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I have to admit I'm a little embarrassed. But I'm learning! :blush:

 

Frenchy

Frenchy, Don't be embarassed, we all have a learning curve to go through. My learning has taken me from using my "seater die" to crimp and ruin many a load to finally buying a LEE CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIE! This has taken care of many of the similar problems your having that I went through when I first started reloading in 1990..... :blush:

 

Presently,when someone asks me about relaoding and loads I conclude my answer by including that a "NICE FIRM CRIMP" on all of your cowboy loads and the use of the LEE Die, will allow for success in most cases. Of course, Proper powder measurements and components are the shooters first responsiblity, those are things that a mere Crimp Die cannot fix....

 

Keep trying Frenchy, you will get there and it is ok to ASK questions.... although some of the answers... may leave you :angry::wacko::blink::mellow: etc....

 

Kindest regards,

 

CBA

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Personally I like to chronograph my loads a chrono is cheap about $100,that way you can taylor your load and see how consistant it is.

 

I've used bullets with know crimp groove for years,I would chrono & check crimp.

 

Just a thought,You may use TrailBoss for whatever reason maybe you shoot 45 LC but it seems like a waste for 38 unless you already have it,if your loading shotgun already or not you could use Clays or Red Dot.Not that is your problem if you even have one.

 

 

I would not be embarresed to ask questions.

 

 

Regards AO

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