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The SASS® Organization A few of SASS’ own members have recently stated, “What does SASS do for me?”, “What does SASS do as a “parent” organization… and even the statement “We don’t need SASS to play Cowboy Action Shooting™”… While the latter statement may be true in the short term, it wouldn’t remain so for long without SASS® - and Cowboy Action Shooting™ wouldn’t be the recognizable or respected discipline it is today in the Shooting Sports and Firearms Industry if it weren’t for the direct efforts of the Single Action Shooting Society®. At this critical time in our organization, I think it is important to illustrate what your membership in SASS means on a global scale- and list just some of the achievements SASS has championed on your behalf over the years. While being humble is an admirable quality, I think it is time to outline some of SASS’ accomplishments. SASS® membership means different things to different people, and membership in SASS has both tangible and intangible benefits. In many ways, those intangible benefits outweigh the tangible benefits of a registered alias, a shooters badge, and member discounts. Did you know? Colt SAA’s and their clones would be illegal in California if not for the direct efforts of SASS on your behalf. Without SASS, members in California would only be able to have rifles that are limited to hold 10 rounds only. SASS represents its members interests to protect gun rights: Testified before the California Senate Judiciary Committee on Firearms related legislation Testified before the California House Public Safety Committee on Firearms related legislation Testified before the United Nations General Assembly on the Treaty for Regulation of Small Arms and Light Weapons (currently titled The Arms Trade Treaty (ATT)) Today’s wide variety and availability of Single Action Revolvers and Lever Action rifles is directly attributable to SASS and its success as an organization. SASS created and still creates and maintains a visible market that influences manufacturers. Ruger Vaqueros Marlin Rifles without a “micro-grooved” barrel There would never have been a need or desire for a .38 bullet weighing less than 158 gr. SASS members would have a difficult time finding competent gunsmiths to work on their guns (there were only a very small handful in the early 80s) Winchester quit putting the cannalure in their .45 LC brass and made it a smooth walled case so it would last longer. The quality and design of those firearms is immensely superior to those of yore- and while that’s largely due to the efforts of Boyd Davis (EMF) and Val Forgett (Navy Arms), their efforts would’ve been fruitless without the visible market that is the SASS Organization of members. Many retail giants in the industry (Midway, Dillon, Cabela’s, Brownell’s) stock and market Cowboy Action Shooting accessories, parts, etc. – a direct result of SASS’ influence. Internationally, many countries are signing on to the UN Arms Trade Treaty. Those countries will be expected to conform to the mandates of the treaty. SASS stands as the organization that invokes protection to ensure that SASS members and affiliated clubs are protected by definition- meaning their guns are protected. SASS membership affords members in many foreign countries to possess firearms that they otherwise could not legally own. SASS has had a profound effect on the way firearms and the shooting sports are viewed by many, including the press. Men, women and children dressed in 1890s clothing, shooting old time firearms presents an aura of FUN. That in turn has influenced other shooting sports, which have adopted the public approach of “shooting is a FUN, SAFE, pastime.” Even the National Shooting Sports Foundation advertises their First Shots program with an emphasis on FUN. SASS has been a member of the National Shooting Sports Foundation since its inception, and has helped develop many of their range programs. Today we are seeing many of our traditions, much of our history, and many of our core values denigrated, devalued, and in some cases, simply erased. SASS stands for and promotes the preservation of those valued elements. If you think not, ask yourself why you like your SASS pards. Why do we all say you’ll “come for the shooting, but stay for the people”? It is our mission to ensure SASS continues for many, many years. Not the least of reasons is our ability to pass on the history, the values, the camaraderie and good will exhibited in our game. SASS has worked diligently to provide a sport and an organization that your entire family can enjoy together. Steeped in core values you and every member of SASS teach the young ones by example. The core qualities of free men and a free nation should not be allowed to die. Every single SASS member should be introducing friends, family, and neighbors to SASS and influencing them to join. There is strength in numbers, and the larger we are the stronger and more influential we are. Every member should swell with pride to be part of SASS. On behalf of the Founders of SASS and Cowboy Action Shooting- The Wild Bunch- Misty Moonshine PROUD member of The Single Action Shooting Society

The thing I will not tolerate is when I'm in a restaurant and some brat (not an infant) is throwing a fit and the parents are allowing them to do it. This is probably my number one trigger....it just infuriates me. The parents and the restaurant management. I will finally get up, go to the restaurant management and tell them that we are leaving because they haven't put a stop to the disruption.

Sitting here pondering the meaning of life & it occurred to me that over the passed 13 years I have been enjoying SASS shooting I have met & learned the aliases about 300-400 or so shooters, maybe more. More than in any other sport, organization, club, school, job or group I have been in in the last 74 years. That's just phenomenal to me - I'm not very much of a social person but I keep meeting shooters that are interested in what I do, what I shoot, where I've been, how long have I shot & a million other subjects. As the saying goes - " I've been to two Worlds Fairs & Disneyland and have never seen anything like it " . What a great group of people ( including Rye Miles , I might add ) :) :)

that's the rumor. And the party line. But the plain truth staring us in the face is that young people these days only want to shoot black guns. Period. We are not gonna attract them. Way past time we stop driving away the old folks who have carried this game thru the decades. I repeat and will maintain we need to get back to our roots and maybe just maybe some of those who have fallen away will return. No one can convince me that the new "let's see who can toggle the equipment fastest" is the wise way to go because it is absolutely NOT.

As I understand it, JM Marlin's are scribed with the last 3 of the serial number on the bottom of the bolt. Also, there are gunsmiths that scribe their initials or sign the bolt to identify their work. That's all I know.....I asked the same question some time ago.......Hope this helps...............RT

both the smokewagons and Peitta's performed well today... yippee!!! thanks again!!!!

TINNITUS!!!!!! Had it all my life. Hope it goes away when I die. Knarley

I am not so sure I am in the minority on the direction the game has taken. We had a whole lot more members back in the good ole days. The game is dying out. And I believe the major reason is that all the fun has been sucked out of it. I personally know many former staunch shooters who quit because of this. If I am wrong, then the plunge in numbers would not be happening and instead be on the increase. Most who think likewise are afraid to say anything due to the pummeling they would receive here for daring to dog the dogma. I do not care if anyone thinks I am wrong so long as they are polite in their disagreement arguments. No one should feel the need for kevlar long johns in this ongoing great debate. IMNSHO we either get back to our roots or continue to spiral into extinction.

Note the shooting rest at about the 42 second mark.

Did you shoot that sweep in your living room Saturday??????

Or know their fer real name...

If the lever is open and the bolt is away from the chamber how can the round fire out of battery if the FIring pin can't reach the round? *Side Note* It's always polite to contact the manufacturer before going on public forums with unhappy rants. I always stand behind all my products and support SASS/shooters to the fullest. Slick.

Hope Dillon keeps pumping out all those military machine guns so they can afford our loader warranties forever.

Charlie may not be checking this thread as he said he'd been doing a lot of traveling and didn't have access on the road but I bought these. Thanks Randy

​ROC RULING CARPENTER/PAINTER PANTS = ACCEPTABLE ​CARGO PANTS = ​NOT ​!! History of the basic designs Carpenter/painter pants are basically overalls without the bib or suspenders which date to the 1700s as working outerwear. "Cargo pants" are based on 1938 British military design with the leg pockets for carrying battle gear (wound dressings) TOP = CARPENTER PANTS = LEGAL BOTTOM = CARGO PANTS = ILLEGAL

I can see it now! Visualize the MD asking for fly inspection volunteers to go into the crowd and check everyone's crotch.

Where in the rules does it state pants need to have button flies? What book, what page? We don't need another category to accomodate a phantom rule.

Yes its legal. I use a bandoler with shotgun and rifle loops all on one .

Misty...I think they're talking about the annual SASS Club affiliation fee: If 100 percent are SASS members in the club, then the club pays no SASS affiliation fee. If 25 percent of the club members are not SASS members, the club must pay $75 to SASS. If 50 percent of club members are not SASS members, the club must pay $100. I'm guessing that "the letter" mentioned above, is the one sent out by Roxy West last August which came with the new SASS club affiliation application form.

IMHO, requiring SASS membership to shoot a local match would be the death of many small clubs. For whatever reason, and they've been beat to death on the wire, some folks will not join SASS. Quite a number of the pards that I shoot with have no interest in shooting a match above a local and there is nothing wrong with that.

So we should be like you and call people names? I will also point out that you wrote this with a keyboard as well.

I'm not calling it a gold mine, I think the opposite. But that is what is claimed in the first paragraph after they list the five things about FR. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241228

Founders Ranch is a gold mine....... for the owners. You have brought up many concerns that I was thinking about as well. I believed that SASS owned FR but it looks like SASS pays a lease to use it. Now what happens if the lease was to end? All of the money spent to build and improve FR would be retained by the owners. One thing I was wondering is if the lease payment just happens to equal the mortgage payment. No numbers have been given and this has the familiarity of the "you have to pass it to find out what is in it." The math doesn't really add up for me as well. It was stated that there was somewhere over 19,000 PAYING members. Now if you were to multiply that by $65, now you really start to wonder where all that money is going. A lot of clubs scrape by and live off donated items and labor just to have a place to shoot. The last thing we need to do is squeeze them for money as well because they will have to pass that expense to the members.

First Misty very well said. I will not quote your post but know that I have read them all. Sorry this is long but as I typed more questions popped into my head. Second while some serious mistakes appear to have been made, SASS can hopefully get past them. If everything were good and SASS was a healthy organization I would continue along none the wiser. However after all that has been posted it has painfully been brought to my attention that all may not be well. So now as a stakeholder I have concerns. My concerns have a lot more to do with where all the money is going than what I am getting out of SASS. I say this because I am all for supporting a great organization as long as that organization uses my support wisely. I am not accusing you of wrongdoing so please do not take this personally. I have not been a member all that long but I do know that you just recently took over as CEO. I firmly do not believe you got SASS into this mess. However now that I know it is a mess, I have questions and you are the only person I can ask for answers. To me supporting SASS is no different than supporting any other organization, charity or cause. Use my support wisely and I am happy. But when I see the possibility that my support is not being used wisely then I start to ask questions and if I am no longer satisfied with the answers; I may decide put my support somewhere else. I am fully aware that in reality I am just a consumer and not a Member. If I were a member I would have much more say in the organization. I recognize that I have some say but it is more of a sounding board to see if we as consumers are satisfied rather than should or shouldn't we do "blank". Past Wild Bunch unilateral decisions have made this clear and while I may not like all of them; they are part of the package and I am OK with it up to a point. That said I see my self more as a stake holder in that I want to see SASS succeed. I do not believe that I have any issues with the Payroll and what the staff is being paid. I also know that there is a lot more than just base salaries in payroll. Typically for every dollar paid to an employee, there is another dollar that supports benefits, bookkeeping, taxes, and other overhead. I am willing to trust that it is fair. The staff does need to travel to perform its duties with respect to Sanctioned events and I understand that. We cut the Chronicle back to electronic. Not happy but I can live with that as we needed to save money and it is a start. However a printed publication that members could leave in waiting rooms and other places for others to read about SASS could possibly be a membership recruiting tool. Maybe some of the items below should be cut instead as the return on investment in the long may be greater with a printed publication. The quarterly paper copy may get that done. What I do wonder is, what are SASS' non-essential money drains? The SASS museum. It might be nice but I have yet to see a small museum that ever came close to paying for its self. Even if we were flush with cash, Museums are not a necessity. I hope I am wrong but I feel that it will never be much more than a road side curiosity and an expensive one at that. Founders Ranch. Answered that it is actually a gold mine. Interesting. SASS convention. Nice but this too should pay for itself or nearly so. If it doesn't, then it needs to be curtailed to the point it pays for its self or very nearly so. The administrative functions that are performed at the convention are important and the seminars are valuable. However the rest is nice to have. I have been part of several club boards and banquet committees. My experience has shown that catered events are very very expensive. Throw in live entertainment and they can rapidly become money pits. I know that the convention is now a biannual affair but if finances are so bad why not cancel the upcoming one or curtail the fringe benefits. This far out there shouldn't be a lot of non-refundable fees and it there are, do they add up to more than the money lost having it? If people want to be entertained, wined, and dined; Las Vegas is chocked full of places from inexpensive to over the top. All they have to do is decide how much they want to pay. EOT. Real nice but in its current venue unless it pays for its self it needs to be restructured so that it breaks even. Better yet why not make it a traveling venue where more members can attend it at least once or twice without shelling out a lot of coin to do so. It should be held in venues where it at least has the possibility to be a recruitment tool. As it is now it is of little benefit except to those members that can afford to attend. Lawsuit. SASS should have insurance that covers things like this. I have read almost every post and unless I am mistaken SASS is in dire financial trouble. I get that idea because your are asking for a fee increase to offset a budget shortfall in excess of $300,000. If founders ranch is a gold mine as previously stated them I am even more perplexed as to where all the money is going. I am also perplexed as not long ago I was lead to believe that SASS was 4 times larger than it actually is. There was a really big deal made of breaking 100,000 members. Instead it was really that 100,000 people had tried SASS at least once, but the vast majority are no longer paying customers for a multitude of unknown reasons. Just asking the membership for more money isn't going to save SASS because the cat is now out of the proverbial bag and no amount of stuffing is going to get it back in. Love alone will not sustain SASS. A lot of people are complaining about the $20 increase and depending on your situation it may or may not be a deal breaker. To me I see all this as an issue because of the unannounced large increase in dues with the justifications coming only after the customers balked. I am sure that many of us are concerned because we are now learning that SASS as a sanctioning body is not what we thought is was and an operating budget in excess of ½ million dollars is not enough for it to to function as a sanctioning body. I know that as a consumer I am not really entitled to answers to the above questions. However as a stakeholder I am asking them because I care about the future of SASS. Respectfully, Sedalia Dave

If SASS is to survive more than a few generations, it needs to look at other organized shooting sports for both positive and negative aspects. Many shooting sports are tied to and partially funded through the NRA. Other large shooting sports are organized under USPSA and NSSF. Both of these last two are main portions of the gun clubs that we frequent, especially the shotgun sports. What SASS is doing is good, but these other sports have seen growth and reduction and growth again, especially the shotgun sports. Regularly printed publications, an intention entry lane for new shooters and divisions suited to shooters who do not want to play the equipment race are critical to these sports. Cowboy action has some challenges: a second generation of leadership, a large back door as many shooters age out of the sport with fewer new shooters, a very high start-up investment, and limited control of how individual clubs provide monthly shoots. I see some problems that a smart group of dedicated cowboys need to address. Our game is too fun and the people are too nice to not get this right.