What if? A question about the ALAMO

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Sam Houstons army was estimated to have nearly 800 men.

 

What do you think the outcome of The Alamo would have been IF.......... Houston had directed his forces

to the rear of Santa Ana's army and while SA's army was focused on The Alamo, Houstons men could have

wiped them out by surprise.

Just my thinking.

 

..........Widder

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I believe Santa Ana is reputed to have a force of 5000.  With insufficient artillery and single shot rifles, the outcome was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I've read two separate stories that at the Alamo, Santa Ana's troops number approx 1800.

 

Another story, concerning Houston's army, was that when he defeated Santa Ana, the odds were

only 2 to 1.   This would also make Santa Ana's army about 1600-1800 men.

 

Is there any actual numbers we can go by?

 

..........Widder

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Alamo#:~:text=As the Texians struggled to,his army numbered 6%2C019 soldiers.

 

That says around 1800 to 2000

 

https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-the-Alamo-San-Antonio-Texas-United-States-1836

Says: "(Estimates of the eventual size of Santa Anna’s army vary widely, from perhaps 1,800 men to as many as 6,000.) "

 

 

 

[Trailrider #896]

The problem and reason Houston could not have attacked Santa Ana's army when the Alamo siege was going on was that Houston's troops needed more training and he needed more troops than he had at that time. Instead, he retreated until he was ready to attack Santa Ana at San Jacinto. When he finally did, he caught the Mexican army taking a siesta. The biggest mistake Houston made was capturing Santa Ana and then letting him go, resulting, ultimately in the Mexican-American war. IIRC, after losing that war, Santa Ana died penniless in New York City!

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

If I remember correctly, President Polk sent American emissaries to Santa Ana who was in exile in Cuba at the start of the Mexican American War. The plan was to escort him back to Mexico on the promise, that if he regained power, he would sell California to the United States.  Once back in Mexico, Santa Ana reneged on that promise and led the resistance to the American invasion.  We gave them back their most able leader at the worst possible time.  American diplomacy at its best!  

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Santa Anna did live and do business in New York, but returned to Mexico City in 1874; he died there two years later.

 

Ol' Antonio had a pretty checkered but amusing history.  One of my favorite stories about him was his leg:  In 1838, two years or so after losing Texas, he lost his left leg during the Pastry War at the Battle of Veracruz - undoubtedly considered  by him to be the greater of the two losses.  And, being the pompous ass he was, he ordered the leg buried with full military honors.  When he became president again in 1842, he had it exhumed and given a state funeral in Mexico City.   Six years later, he fled Mexico City ahead of a mob - who were so pi$$ed off they dug up the leg and dragged it through the streets 'til there was nothing left of it. 

 

Ironically, in 1847 during the American-Mexican war, he narrowly escaped capture, but during his rapid "get-away" left behind his wooden leg.  Soldiers from Illinois liberated the prosthetic leg, allegedly used it as a baseball bat, then carried their "prize" home - where it remains, on display at the Illinois State Military Museum at Springfield.  

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

What if I had been born very rich instead of so pretty?

 

You get the same answer:  it didn't happen that way so I won't dwell on it.

[T.K.]

Q. Do you know why Santana only had 5000 men?

 

A.  He could only find 100 pickup trucks

[Pat Riot]

6 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Santa Anna did live and do business in New York, but returned to Mexico City in 1874; he died there two years later.

 

Ol' Antonio had a pretty checkered but amusing history.  One of my favorite stories about him was his leg:  In 1838, two years or so after losing Texas, he lost his left leg during the Pastry War at the Battle of Veracruz - undoubtedly considered  by him to be the greater of the two losses.  And, being the pompous ass he was, he ordered the leg buried with full military honors.  When he became president again in 1842, he had it exhumed and given a state funeral in Mexico City.   Six years later, he fled Mexico City ahead of a mob - who were so pi$$ed off they dug up the leg and dragged it through the streets 'til there was nothing left of it. 

 

Ironically, in 1847 during the American-Mexican war, he narrowly escaped capture, but during his rapid "get-away" left behind his wooden leg.  Soldiers from Illinois liberated the prosthetic leg, allegedly used it as a baseball bat, then carried their "prize" home - where it remains, on display at the Illinois State Military Museum at Springfield.  

 

Sounds like everybody got a leg up, except Santa Ana. 

 

 

Oh, look at the time! I gotta go…

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

He was supposedly also quite a lady's man and had wives all over Mexico.  By legend, he was "entertaining a lady" when Houston attacked at San Jacinto.  There is a disputed story associated with the lady that he was with led to the tune "The Yellow Rose of Texas".  True or not, it makes for a more interesting story.

 

As a retired Advanced Placement U.S. history teacher, my students were always much more interested in the juicy gossip than the actual relevance of historic events.  Truth told, so was I.   

[Rye Miles #13621]

Sam Houston eventually did defeat Santa Anna and made him look like a fool and coward!

https://www.history.com/topics/latin-america/battle-of-san-jacinto

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Sam Houston eventually did defeat Santa Anna and made him look like a fool and coward!

https://www.history.com/topics/latin-america/battle-of-san-jacinto

 

Not mentioned in the "history dot com" article, but some historical accounts do make mention of the fact that both Santa Anna and Houston were Masons, and that this may have had some bearing on the final outcome - Santa Anna's release in exchange for his signing the treaty recognizing Texas' independence. 

 

Dunno about today, but when I was a kid growing up in Texas, the public school system reeeally stressed teaching state history.   

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

6 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

Not mentioned in the "history dot com" article, but some historical accounts do make mention of the fact that both Santa Anna and Houston were Masons, and that this may have had soem bearing on the final outcome - Santa Anna's release in exchange for his signing the treaty recognizing Texas' independence. 

 

Dunno about today, but when I was a kid growing up in Texas, the public school system reeeally stressed teaching state history.   

 

 

 

Wow never heard that one! Who knows??

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Wow never heard that one! Who knows??

 

He knew the secret handshake.  

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

Not mentioned in the "history dot com" article, but some historical accounts do make mention of the fact that both Santa Anna and Houston were Masons, and that this may have had some bearing on the final outcome - Santa Anna's release in exchange for his signing the treaty recognizing Texas' independence. 

 

Dunno about today, but when I was a kid growing up in Texas, the public school system reeeally stressed teaching state history.   

 

 

 

 

They both were. However because of his actions the Alamo and Goliad, Santa Anna was kicked out of the Masons

 

This is a very interesting read. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/santa-annas-masonic-membership-confirmed-201453311.html#:~:text=The significance of this announcement,%2C a well-known Mason.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

They both were. However because of his actions the Alamo and Goliad, Santa Anna was kicked out of the Masons

 

This is a very interesting read. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/santa-annas-masonic-membership-confirmed-201453311.html#:~:text=The significance of this announcement,%2C a well-known Mason.

 

Another interesting, parallel article:  

 

https://pubs.royle.com/publication/?i=284647&article_id=2346020&view=articleBrowser

 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:21 PM, T.K. said:

Q. Do you know why Santana only had 5000 men?

 

A.  He could only find 100 pickup trucks

  Thank you.