Is Liberty Safe?

[Buckshot Bob]

 

[Buckshot Bob]

Even the mild mannered Canadians don’t like it 

 

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

Good , Bad , or Ugly , I have two Liberty safes , the older one I bought in 1992 , the newer (and smaller) one in 2003. I would not be able to buy a new safe at this point in my life , so I will have these the rest of my days.  Well , barring some catastrophe.

I actually don't give a s**t what the present company did or didn't do. Mine are staying home.

Politics be damned.

Rex  

[Slapshot]

3 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

They don't have some master override code. Liberty turned over the original combination as manufactured.

 

There might be a problem with the warrant and I would not let Liberty off the hook if  they should have insisted on the Feds dotting their Is and crossing there Ts to go get a properly worded warrant demanding Liberty provide the combination for the specific safe. At the same time, I do not think a judge would have refused to do so. Frankly, I also do not as yet know this to be or not be the case.

 

There might be a chance for this Jan 6 suspect to challenge any evidence resulting from fruit of the poisoned tree (contents of the safe). IANAL.

 

As to Apple, Apple did not have a way to break the security. By comparison, liberty went to the customer support database, punched in the safe serial number, and retrieved the combination. And when some 3rd party did break into that phone, then Apple reverse engineered the hack and created a software update to prevent the hack in the future. But Apple also advertises security as a feature.

 

Any Liberty safe owner has had every opportunity to know the original combination was available through customer service.

 

As a safe owner, i did change my combination. I don't care if the maker has the original record, that combo is no longer any good. As to a back door... Another code which will open my safe even if I change the combo... This would be market suicide for the company, a breach of this information in a hack would make every safe they manufactured worthless.

 

Now as to what will happen in the market... Liberty is now owned (at least partially) by a capitol investment company favoring liberal candidates. I have been thinking and wondering why an essentially anti-gun investment firm (inference by political funding) would invest in a gun safe company... Might it be to make a profit by lobbying for laws to require "safe storage" thereby selling lots of safes to gun owners?

 

I think this is worth considering when shopping for a safe in the future, especially if legislation requires you to spend the money in the next couple years. As if having a locked front door on your house would not already satisfy safe storage requirements.

Do you know they don't have a override code or is that your assumption? And yes they have your code also which when you bought the safe became your property not theirs to do with what they want to. Yes the Feds should have to be exact dotting their I's and crossing their T's. They have messed up so many other things they need to be held accountable. And who cares if the Judge would not have a problem issuing a warrant specifically naming Liberty its their job to do so. Liberty pretty much on word of mouth request give up the owners info to the FBI as they was not named in the warrant and was not compelled by law to comply. Would be no different than the FBI requesting the bank give up your bank info without a warrant. Both would and is wrong to do.

[Sedalia Dave]

Until some entity produces the ACTUAL warrant all of this is pure speculation.

 

We also have no way of knowing if the lock was a dial or a keypad.

[Sedalia Dave]

I find it interesting that everyone is looking at the political affiliation of  the board of directors.

 

WHO CARES!!! Just as long as they keep their political views separate from their business I couldn't care less. 

 

Conservatives think it is wrong for the radical left to boycott every business that doesn't publicly support their cause.  A business's sole focus should be making money for their shareholders and taking care of their employees. NOT being social justice warriors. If the board of directors want to support a cause as themselves WHO CARES. When a business starts being a social justice warrior that's when I have a problem. 

 

 

[Texas Maverick]

12 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Do you know they don't have a override code or is that your assumption? And yes they have your code also which when you bought the safe became your property not theirs to do with what they want to. Yes the Feds should have to be exact dotting their I's and crossing their T's. They have messed up so many other things they need to be held accountable. And who cares if the Judge would not have a problem issuing a warrant specifically naming Liberty its their job to do so. Liberty pretty much on word of mouth request give up the owners info to the FBI as they was not named in the warrant and was not compelled by law to comply. Would be no different than the FBI requesting the bank give up your bank info without a warrant. Both would and is wrong to do.

When I bought my Liberty safe from Cabelas about 10 years ago I had a paper in the package that was to be filled out by me. It was listing who had the right to contact Liberty to get the combination for the safe incase of my death or the loss of the combination. They retained the original combination on file for my safe. It listed the model, serial number and legal contact info for the safe on the registration paperwork I filled out and sent back to them. 

 

TM

[Sedalia Dave]

Something else to consider, a lone employee or possibly that employee's supervisor made the call to give out the combination.  Right or wrong they made a decision, possibly under perceived duress. They were likely following a corporate policy that was not 100% applicable to the situation.

 

I commend Liberty Safe for not publicly throwing that person or persons under the bus. It's WAY TOO EASY to armchair quarterback a decision when none of us have all the facts.

[Cypress Sun]

I don't know if it surprises me that Liberty Safes has become a "Bud Light" boycott type target or that so many people have swallowed the whole bait of the media crucifixion of a company that has been a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter ever since they started making quality safes for 35 years. Mob mentality I guess.

 

I don't like what they did but I'll tell you what...I'll give them a chance to make it up...and I think they will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

52 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

I don't know if it surprises me that Liberty Safes has become a "Bud Light" boycott type target or that so many people have swallowed the whole bait of the media crucifixion of a company that has been a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter ever since they started making quality safes for 35 years. Mob mentality I guess.

 

I don't like what they did but I'll tell you what...I'll give them a chance to make it up...and I think they will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good donation to GOA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation would be a good start. I have 2 Liberty safes. And don’t have any plans to buy one in the future so I don’t have a dog in this fight. But it certainly doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy feeling that a company that I have supported in the past and has a large firearms owner customer base would sell one of their customers down the river so easily 

[Buckshot Bob]

A locksmith does a good job of explaining how things work and the over ride codes 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

This Lawyer does a pretty good job of summarizing the situation with the available information 

 

[Red Eye Jim]

Washington Gun Law recently did a good pair of presentations on the subject.  One about the incident including the Liberty Press Release in full, plus a piece on their recent announcement on how current customers can get their combinations removed from that database.

 

I personally don't own a Liberty, so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do think that the Liberty appears to be making the correct decisions about how to move forward.  I am, however, still removing them from consideration from my next safe purchase, although to be honest, they are always an outside contender for me anyway when I have Liberty safe just down the road a piece.

[Slapshot]

20 hours ago, Texas Maverick said:

When I bought my Liberty safe from Cabelas about 10 years ago I had a paper in the package that was to be filled out by me. It was listing who had the right to contact Liberty to get the combination for the safe incase of my death or the loss of the combination. They retained the original combination on file for my safe. It listed the model, serial number and legal contact info for the safe on the registration paperwork I filled out and sent back to them. 

 

TM

It is still your code unless you listed them having permission to give the code to LEO's upon request. Whether they retain it or not its not their property they are just holding it like a bank does with the contents within a safety deposit box.

[Slapshot]

19 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

I don't know if it surprises me that Liberty Safes has become a "Bud Light" boycott type target or that so many people have swallowed the whole bait of the media crucifixion of a company that has been a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter ever since they started making quality safes for 35 years. Mob mentality I guess.

 

I don't like what they did but I'll tell you what...I'll give them a chance to make it up...and I think they will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Staunch 2A supporters don't donate campaign money to Democrats. SO enlighten me as I don't know what has that company done to support the 2A?

[Cypress Sun]

11 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Staunch 2A supporters don't donate campaign money to Democrats. SO enlighten me as I don't know what has that company done to support the 2A?

 

Read back through this thread again. You'll find that the conglomerate of new owners has donated to both the Dems and Republicans, although heavier on the Dem side. The playing both sides isn't uncommon. If you would like to know exact amounts, I suggest that you do a little research on the subject.

[Buckshot Bob]

https://rumble.com/v3g1zi5-liberty-safe-betrayal-update-billion-dollar-firm-owns-liberty-and-check-out.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GunsAmerica&ep=1

 

[Sedalia Dave]

6 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

https://rumble.com/v3g1zi5-liberty-safe-betrayal-update-billion-dollar-firm-owns-liberty-and-check-out.html?mref=6zof&mc=dgip3&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GunsAmerica&ep=1

 

 

Again WHY SHOULD I CARE.

 

As long as they are not virtue signaling and forcing woke policies on me as a consumer I couldn't care less who the board of directors support politically. 

 

Last time I checked being a democrat or making political contributions to democrats was not immoral or illegal.

 

The video is nothing more than click bait. 

[Buckshot Bob]

9 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Again WHY SHOULD I CARE.

 

As long as they are not virtue signaling and forcing woke policies on me as a consumer I couldn't care less who the board of directors support politically. 

 

Last time I checked being a democrat or making political contributions to democrats was not immoral or illegal.

 

The video is nothing more than click bait. 

You don’t have to care. But allot of other people sure seem to . I thought it was quite informative. And I do care who the board of directors supports. I try to do my best to support the companies that align with my beliefs and not support those that don’t. It’s not always possible but when it is I do. And in this situation  the information has been made available. Liberty is no longer the company they used to be. But you’re still perfectly free to promote and purchase liberty safes. 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Liberty has no idea what they just did to there company. 

DEAD ! 

[Slapshot]

15 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Again WHY SHOULD I CARE.

 

As long as they are not virtue signaling and forcing woke policies on me as a consumer I couldn't care less who the board of directors support politically. 

 

Last time I checked being a democrat or making political contributions to democrats was not immoral or illegal.

 

The video is nothing more than click bait. 

Maybe you should care because of what the Democrats have done to the country in the time that Biden has been in office? Or maybe when Obama was in office. Maybe because the Democrats have done their very best to destroy the country and our way of life. 

 

Oh I get you not caring. Thats the problem with people. Until it hits them square in the face they don't want to deal with it. 

 

JMO, just like your opinion. 

15 hours ago, Buckshot Bob said:

You don’t have to care. But allot of other people sure seem to . I thought it was quite informative. And I do care who the board of directors supports. I try to do my best to support the companies that align with my beliefs and not support those that don’t. It’s not always possible but when it is I do. And in this situation  the information has been made available. Liberty is no longer the company they used to be. But you’re still perfectly free to promote and purchase liberty safes. 

Exactly, well said.

[Buckshot Bob]

People are getting creative 

[Texas Maverick]

On 9/10/2023 at 6:52 AM, Slapshot said:

It is still your code unless you listed them having permission to give the code to LEO's upon request. Whether they retain it or not its not their property they are just holding it like a bank does with the contents within a safety deposit box.

I did find the website to have them delete my data and will be filling it out. I have made an encrypted copy of my info on a thumb drive and put into a safe place for my daughter and wife needing access to it after I leave this world. Until then no one else needs access to it but me.

 

TM

[Sedalia Dave]

3 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Maybe you should care because of what the Democrats have done to the country in the time that Biden has been in office? Or maybe when Obama was in office. Maybe because the Democrats have done their very best to destroy the country and our way of life. 

 

Oh I get you not caring. Thats the problem with people. Until it hits them square in the face they don't want to deal with it. 

 

If I avoided every business that had members on the BOD that were Democrats I'd soon be unable to shop anywhere. Same would be true if I were a democrat refusing to support any company that had a republican on the BOD.

 

What Bud light was definitely wrong. Same for Target. In both cases the facts are very easy to discover and there is no doubt that their actions were fully endorsed by be their leadership.

However, when it comes to the Liberty safe issue all we have are a bunch of talking heads SPECULATING about what happened. We have lots unsubstantiated theories but actual facts are in short supply. 

 

Boycotting Liberty is not the answer. Getting people off their butts and voting is the answer. Too many people refuse to vote because they don't like either candidate. When what they need to be doing is voting every time and  choosing the lesser of the two evils. Not voting is worse thing people do.

 

 

[Buckshot Bob]

To me what Liberty did was far worse than Bud or Target . They gave away a customers private information when they didn’t have to. Maybe I’m wrong but If they had been served with a warrant they legally had to comply with I’m guessing their PR department would be smart enough to make that perfectly clear. Instead they dodge answering the question. And SD is right that you can’t possibly boycott every company that has given money to anti gun politicians or have sold their customers by giving up their private records. But you can easily boycott Liberty and let every potential buyer you know about the situation. I agree with SD that voting is the answer and I encourage everyone I know to vote, but I also think anything you can do to cut off funding the anti gun crowd is also beneficial. So until Liberty changes their policies they are off the list of companies I will support and I will encourage everyone I know not to support them either. For a time in my life I wouldn’t purchase S&W products or Ruger, I’m still on the fence about Springfield Armory. S&W and Ruger are both under new management with new policy’s partly because they betrayed the trust of their customers. and their customers didn’t put up with it. I have no problem with purchasing a Ruger or S&W product today, although the Hillary hole still irks me. Maybe some day Liberty will be owned by a company or individual with a pro gun outlook that is interested in maintaining their customers privacy. 

[John Kloehr]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:14 AM, Cypress Sun said:

 

Read back through this thread again. You'll find that the conglomerate of new owners has donated to both the Dems and Republicans, although heavier on the Dem side. The playing both sides isn't uncommon. If you would like to know exact amounts, I suggest that you do a little research on the subject.

I did that. While I did not verify the $400,000 total, I did verify a single republican donation in the amount of $4,500... One in 10 years. If you have a different source, I am open to reviewing my findings.

 

And as to why this investment firm would buy a safe company, I can see three reasons:

• Liberty is a profitable company and worth buying; they will make a profit if successful
• The investment firm owners believe in safe firearms storage and wish to promote the practice; they will make more profit if successful
• The investment firm is lobbying for legislation mandating safe firearms storage ; they will make even more profit if successful

[Buckshot Bob]

19 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I did that. While I did not verify the $400,000 total, I did verify a single republican donation in the amount of $4,500... One in 10 years. If you have a different source, I am open to reviewing my findings.

 

And as to why this investment firm would buy a safe company, I can see three reasons:

• Liberty is a profitable company and worth buying; they will make a profit if successful
• The investment firm owners believe in safe firearms storage and wish to promote the practice; they will make more profit if successful
• The investment firm is lobbying for legislation mandating safe firearms storage ; they will make even more profit if successful

My money is on door #3

[Cypress Sun]

42 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I did that. While I did not verify the $400,000 total, I did verify a single republican donation in the amount of $4,500... One in 10 years. If you have a different source, I am open to reviewing my findings.

 

And as to why this investment firm would buy a safe company, I can see three reasons:

• Liberty is a profitable company and worth buying; they will make a profit if successful
• The investment firm owners believe in safe firearms storage and wish to promote the practice; they will make more profit if successful
• The investment firm is lobbying for legislation mandating safe firearms storage ; they will make even more profit if successful

 

Nope, no different sources and I'm not going to seek different sources.

 

If folks want to crucify Liberty Safes, be my guest... doesn't affect me, in any way, what-so-ever and it's no skin off my ass.

[John Kloehr]

If I have a BS source, I want to be corrected. There are BS sources out there. If I cited the wrong management company, I want to be corrected. Not just from CS, from anyone on this thread.

 

8 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Nope, no different sources and I'm not going to seek different sources.

 

If folks want to crucify Liberty Safes, be my guest... doesn't affect me, in any way, what-so-ever and it's no skin off my ass.

 

Fine, but here is my source:

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/monomoy-capital-partners/totals?id=D000035965

 

I did expect to find the company playing both sides of the aisle, most big companies do. A 40/60 split in either direction is still something I can consider balanced. But it is not what I found. And here is the relevant post I wrote on the first page of this thread:

 

On 9/7/2023 at 6:09 PM, John Kloehr said:

...

As to the opening post with all the drama about Liberty's parent company and the democrat party donations... With that type of tone, I generally go verify the information myself, for instance the democrat numbers might be true but the republican numbers are the same and were omitted to make an emotional point.

 

In this case, I find Monomoy Partners did also donate to the republican party... One donation in one year in the amount of $2,500. I did not verify the $400,000 multi-year total but it is not an obvious lie.

...

 

So I do have a correction to make, I said $4,500 in my post on this page. The $2,500 amount in my post on page one is correct. Statistically not significant, but still want to only post correct information.

[Slapshot]

12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

If I avoided every business that had members on the BOD that were Democrats I'd soon be unable to shop anywhere. Same would be true if I were a democrat refusing to support any company that had a republican on the BOD.

 

What Bud light was definitely wrong. Same for Target. In both cases the facts are very easy to discover and there is no doubt that their actions were fully endorsed by be their leadership.

However, when it comes to the Liberty safe issue all we have are a bunch of talking heads SPECULATING about what happened. We have lots unsubstantiated theories but actual facts are in short supply. 

 

Boycotting Liberty is not the answer. Getting people off their butts and voting is the answer. Too many people refuse to vote because they don't like either candidate. When what they need to be doing is voting every time and  choosing the lesser of the two evils. Not voting is worse thing people do.

 

 

No what Liberty did was just plain wrong, just like the other 2 cases you mentioned. Liberty said themselves they gave the code to the LEO's. And while they had a warrant

"The warrant, however, did not specifically name Liberty or compel the company to comply."

Therefore the company had no right to give out the code that was the sole property of the safe owner and not theirs. This is no different than a bank giving out your banking info, or your cell phone company giving out your info and phone records without a warrant compelling them to. What the company did was blatantly wrong. 

Voting for the lesser of 2 evils, surely you jest. Sir by God, "evil is evil", Lucifer is still the Devil no matter what name you vote for him. Voting is a dang joke now days. Voting is a feel good measure the Government gives you to make you feel like you have a little bit of control. When in reality you and I and the voting public have no control what so ever most are just in denial about it living in a fantasy word that we can make a difference by voting. Hell you have no way of even proving they tally the votes correctly. Sure maybe low level state elections they might tally the votes correctly. I highly doubt they do in any Federal election. Yes I know you will disagree with me and think I am crazy. But to me everyone that still believes in this corrupt 2 party system, doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome are the crazy ones. Why it is the definition of crazy. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils, surely you jest. Sir by God evil is evil, Lucifer is still the Devil no matter what name you vote for him. 

You can boycott whom ever you choose. Same as anyone else or me. But boycotting hitting companies int he pocket book thats far more effective when enough do it. Just look at Bud-light they are a good example of how you can hurt companies that screw over their buying base. 

 

But we each have to make up our own minds on what to do. Sit back and do nothing when companies do wrong or stand up to them and let them know their bottom line is going to hurt when they screw the public over. 

[Buckshot Bob]

 

[Matthew Duncan]

Swap out the Liberty electronic key pad with a mechanical dial and eliminating any back door access.

 

 

[Matthew Duncan]

OK.  I watched a few more YouTubes.

 

Yes there is a “back door” combination depending on the model of electronic keypad Liberty used.  It’s call a maintenance or supervisor code. This code is primary and the combination you use is a secondary code.  On some models you can delete the back door code and others you can not.

 

IF you did NOT complete and return the warranty information Liberty has no idea who bought the safe thereby cannot provide LE any information.  Hello this is Liberty Safe.  This is the FBI and we need the combination to a Liberty safe owned by a Matthew Duncan.  Sorry we have no Matthew Duncan in our records.

 

AND if you removed the serial number from the exterior of your safe LE couldn’t call Liberty Safe to ask for the combination for a safe with the serial number of….

[Texas Joker]

7 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

OK.  I watched a few more YouTubes.

 

Yes there is a “back door” combination depending on the model of electronic keypad Liberty used.  It’s call a maintenance or supervisor code. This code is primary and the combination you use is a secondary code.  On some models you can delete the back door code and others you can not.

 

IF you did NOT complete and return the warranty information Liberty has no idea who bought the safe thereby cannot provide LE any information.  Hello this is Liberty Safe.  This is the FBI and we need the combination to a Liberty safe owned by a Matthew Duncan.  Sorry we have no Matthew Duncan in our records.

 

AND if you removed the serial number from the exterior of your safe LE couldn’t call Liberty Safe to ask for the combination for a safe with the serial number of….

Or they just say 'ok FBI use override code xxx if that doesn't work try zzz

[Slapshot]

The whole point is they shouldn't be telling them anything if they aren't specifically named in the warrant to do it. Not their code once they sell the safe.